We won't shoot drones, Khuwaja Saad Rafique [PMLN]

[Dillinger]

Please see here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-s-pause-drone-strikes-pakistan-election.html

@Secur, is Argus related to you? I've seen some of his posts, they are quite similar to yours.

Ah so the strikes will continue then. Its going to be nigh impossible to convince the Americans to stop, not until Pakistan presents Mullah Omar's head on a platter to them. A lot of people seem to believe that the 2014 draw-down will lead to the cessation of such strikes. They have completely disregarded the fact that the US has conducted quite a few strikes running on skeletal crews and a negligible logistical footprint in Yemen. The presence they will leave behind in Af will still be far more than what they've devoted to Yemen.

Its a bloody business with all the "collateral damage".

 

[Secur]

@Secur, is Argus related to you? I've seen some of his posts, they are quite similar to yours.

Ah so the strikes will continue then. Its going to be nigh impossible to convince the Americans to stop, not until Pakistan presents Mullah Omar's head on a platter to them.The presence they will leave behind in Af will still be far more than what they've devoted to Yemen.

Well not really , I have read a lot of his posts and they do not appear even remotely similar to mine , mate I wonder where you see that similarity .

Yeah , for the time , they will . The Americans will not stop even after they somehow find Mullah Omar , remember they always need an enemy to maintain presence in the region one way or other ? What makes you think he's in Pakistan ?

The presence , friend , ai'nt gonna make any difference whatsoever , the million powerful army spent trillions and couldn't do jack in Afghanistan for a goddamn decade and nothing worked for them . What hope can somebody attach with a token presence ?

 

[Secur]

@Hyperion @Secur @Armstrong

Why is there is so much hoopla about SHOOTING drones? You don't need to shoot them you need to stop them, and there are better ways of stopping them.

First clear out the pretext on which these drone strikes are carried out, the nice and safe presence that the Afghan Taliban have in Pakistan, uproot them along with the TTP and dump them in the sea Osama style. Once you're done with that present the evidence for this good deed and drag the Americans to the ICJ. They won't have a leg to stand on in that case. Might sound more cumbersome a plan, it in fact is more "labor intensive" but unlike shooting down US property close to an active war-zone- or inside one as far as the US is concerned- its a more plausible path.

Why are there no takers for this or is Mullah Omar such a beloved of the people and Ganja Sahib?

Two reasons come to my mind .

1) Either Saad Raifque thinks that is the idea that the general populace has in mind " shooting drones " or that is what he understands , completely unaware of defense matters , like the rest of his lot .

2) In my opinion , even the current Govt which is yet to take the oath , doesn't have a concrete policy for stopping " drone attacks " because the new Premier Nawaz Sharif has always been influenced by the Americans due to his fear of the army .

First of all , understand this , the United States of America , doesn't need any pretext of any sort to conduct these air raids or wars as it has shown countless times in the past , they can bend/violate International laws and find a casus belli when none exists for the protection of their interests . Secondly , Durand Line is not what you think it to be , it is an open porous border where restricting any movement is next to impossible . Tribes move along daily to both sides of it for visiting their relatives , friends and for business and what-not . Since the insurgents do not wear uniform , they can easily pass as a common citizen and hence can travel from Afghanistan to Pakistan and vice versa . The problem being that Afghan Taliban have resources to fund their Jihad whilst the TTP has nothing significant or noteworthy . Hence , we have more reason to believe that Afghanistan assist forces that try to destabilize Pakistan than vice versa since any mischief from Islamabad in American presence is highly unlikely . Why dump Osama in the Ocean when he's good paraded around naked as a symbol of victory in the decade old war ? This ai'nt conspiracy theory , just a food for thought . The Americans do not give a damn about International Court of Justice ( ICJ ) and you know that very well .

There isn't any support for Taliban from Pakistan , who openly threaten us and have declared Pakistan army as " infidels " .

 

[uzair ramay]

kiya-nai...well said

 

[uzair ramay]

after negotians with talibans i think this governmnt will try to make negotiations with nato to stop these attacks and also these attacks will stop when pak governmnt will have full control on that areas...otherwise shooting down drones can become nightmare for pakistan and i m sure also for nato forces..because if they attack us after this pak army will surely give a strong response to them and can become a full fledge war...because we r not afghanistan or iraq...

 

[Shoaib Rathore]

do we have capability to shoot drones?

 

[Fracker]

So what is he saying? The only option for us Pakistanis is to sit and get killed by the drones anyway?

No, Negotiation to remove these drones, like all of PML-N leaders said early.

do we have capability to shoot drones?

Yes, But but understanding between Army and US already there (atleast a agreement was done in Musharaf's time for it). What ever they want now should be bring on the table before even thinking about shooting down drones.

 

[Beerbal]

One Important Question::

Q: Which Political Party had promised to shoot down the drones??? Did PLM(N) Had promised it?

do we have capability to shoot drones?

any one can shoot drone... Whats a big deal? Even 3rd gen fighters can shoot drons,

 

[Dillinger]

Well not really , I have read a lot of his posts and they do not appear even remotely similar to mine , mate I wonder where you see that similarity .

Yeah , for the time , they will . The Americans will not stop even after they somehow find Mullah Omar , remember they always need an enemy to maintain presence in the region one way or other ? What makes you think he's in Pakistan ?

The presence , friend , ai'nt gonna make any difference whatsoever , the million powerful army spent trillions and couldn't do jack in Afghanistan for a goddamn decade and nothing worked for them . What hope can somebody attach with a token presence ?

Yaraa everyone talks of how the American army has failed in Af, has it occurred to anyone that they never wanted to stabilize the region anyway. Just create a semblance of stability where they could have islands of influence. When I talk of the presence left behind, I am not saying that they'll magically stabilize Af, Oh no, but a base or two and reduced logistics is enough to run their drone ops in Pakistan...have you not noticed that they are far keener about "droning" Pak than actually running area dominance ops in Af.

Dad was there 4 years back while working with AKF, he had only one thing to say, the troops are only interested in securing their bases..they sally out once in a while, rarely disembark to patrol the area in detail. Often they'll set up fortified positions from where they attempt to survey a certain sector but that's about it.

Their draw-down will not reduce their capacity to continue with drone ops, they need only secure 2-4 bases and carry on their job. Remember they were operating their drones from just three bases in Pak and doing a pretty "lethal" job before you guys pushed them out and they shifted the bases to Af.

The draw-down will benefit the Taliban's ability to strike in Af but it will not be a respite for Pak IF the Americans insist on continuing with these drone strikes.

I think the best solution is to cooperate fully with them. Provide them with all the HUMINT you guys have and don't try to "tip off" any target that you might think may prove valuable some where down the line. That "tipping-off" is what got the US to allegedly stop cooperating and exchanging info with Pak authorities with regard to drone strikes, instead they shifted to signature based strikes which accrue a hefty amount of collateral damage. Cooperate and at least the signature strikes will stop, at least till a more concrete solution can be worked out. That way at least the body count of by standers and outright innocent people will drop in that time being.


As far as Osama is concerned...well yaara if there was a chance of anything of that sort then your agencies and authorities would have surely known..and they would have jumped on it. Op Neptune Spear was the most humiliating thing that could happen to any armed force short of outright defeat on the battle field and surrender. They might not have been able to drag the US to the ICJ but they definitely would have used such info to tar the US pretty black..and it would have worked too. There is a limit to how much information even the US can blackout, specially with regard to something already so sensational and popular with all the conspiracy theorists of the world. Still the GOP seems content in toeing the American line on this.


Personally I don't think the drone strikes are bad in themselves. Its going to be pretty much impossible for the GOP to convince any other nation that it is not covertly supporting the Af Taliban. Pretty much every nation which matters states that Omar Sahib is holed up in NW, FATA, SW. So its a tall order to expect the GOP to try anything towards successfully changing that perception. Having said all of that, these signature strikes HAVE TO STOP. The toll they take in terms of innocent deaths is unacceptable and reprehensible. The ISI and the CIA should really patch the trust deficit up with all their combined efforts so that in the short run the casualties can significantly fall.

 

[Dillinger]

@Secur

Oh and about Argus, I meant the language yaara. Not the content..but same sort of finesse.

 

[SBD-3]

My Avatar says it all, lets see what rana sanaullah says in few days time on LeT/JuD.
It was expected and this is what we all were fearing about at the night of 11th may. This is pathetic, and just to let you guys know, CIA will handle the operation for now but there is a talk about it handing it over to Pentagon as they have already done for yemen drone operations.

NS has clearly said that he Wont allow Pakistan's land to be used against any country (including India). Don't you follow news?
*CIA's operations have pantagon's explicit or implicit blessings.

 

[Amaa'n]

NS has clearly said that he Wont allow Pakistan's land to be used against any country (including India). Don't you follow news?
*CIA's operations have pantagon's explicit or implicit blessings.

and your point is? we are talking about drone strikes and you are talking about what Ganja has been blabing about

 

[batmannow]

Why should PMLn stop drones, or even think to negociate a truce on drones, while animals called talibans Kept killing innocent muslims in pakistan?
After all Peoples Got Killed In Drone attacks Still Stand Less then Those, Killed By Talibans?

 

[Jaanbaz]

How can we strike at the same hand that feeds us? Pakistan is running on American Aid.

 

[batmannow]

How can we strike at the same hand that feeds us? Pakistan is running on American Aid.

Not Only That They Are Feeding Us?
But Also Our Inability To Act Against Terrorists In That Remote Part Of Pakistan, Is The Key reason Why ÙSA Will Not Stop Targgeting Those Terrorists, Hiding Under That Natural Cover Of Mountians?
I dont Know Whatever May Anyone thinks About This Whole Issue, But In Reality Innocent Peoples Killed By, Terrorists Is Still Much Higher, Then Those Killed By drones? Most Of The Times We Only Hear Prapogandas Made By The Parties Which Are Using This Sensitive Issue, For Thier Politics Only ?
But In Real They Only Use It For Political gain In KpK, & for Financial Gains Under table!
Even Thinking To Stop Drone Attacks, will Prove Another Regrouping Of Terrorists & Can Result In Another M3ga Terror Incident?
So Lets Say, Wise Thinking By PMLn Sofar!