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We salute Pak fight against terror: Israel

Who's advocating war? I made my position clear:

I didn't mean you.

I have seen many Pakistanis on forums itching for a war with Israel. Not Pakistan though.

They would rather prefer Turkey or Egypt to fight with a nuclear Israel and watch from the sidelines and a very safe distance indeed.
 
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I love these people who say we should have relations with Israel because we will be able to help mediate a solution. If USA, Egypt and Turkey were not able to 'mediate' a solution, what makes anyone think Pakistan will have any impact?

There may or may not be reasons to have diplomatic relations, but let's not try to fool anyone by saying we will 'mediate'.

See, you need to accept that Pakistan really doesn't matter on this issue. One way or the other.

People have delusions about their own importance.
 
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Then why does Pakistan have any diplomatic relations with India?? Why the "aman ki asha" bullcrap when India is occupying Kashmir and killing thousands of Kashmiris??

I already mentioned that there is nothing wrong in talking to Israel. We've been doing that for years.
I was referring to not having "good" relations.
All we have got with good relations with Uncle Sam are spies undermining Pakistan's efforts against terrorists. Who can guarantee that it will not happen again with Israel??

Israel is busy digging under Al-Aqsa mosque and driving Palestinians away like cattle. No diplomatic ties till they stop it.

I haven't forgotten Kashmir or its people. This is why I don't think that the whole "Aman ki Asha" thing is even worth it. Their media is still anti-Pakistan for the most part. They support a radical anti-Muslim, anti-Pakistan group like Shiv Sena but don't want Haifz Saeed to say anything remotely anti-Indian. Peace works when both sides want it. One-sided peace is called a surrender.

I don't support terrorism, but neither should India.
 
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I saw some posts about Jews. Let's be clear.

While Israel defines itself as a Jewish State, not all Jews are Israeli.

See David Yisroel, who is an orthodox Jew, but does not accept Israel's excessive use of power against civilians. Israel calls people like him "self-hating" Jews.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Jewish people. It is the Israeli government and armed forces who employ massive bombing and shelling as a method against the Palestinians, not Jews.

As for posts about benefits from Israeli co-operation, then please know while they may be able to provide some level of technology to us, it will probably not compare to what they currently provide to India.

If reports about India-Israel co-op againt Pakistan is true, then let's be fair. We once helped the Arabs in defending against Israel.
So Israel may not have forgotten that.

I will say again, I support talk and maybe even trade. But no diplomatic ties/recognition.
I love the Al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock more than whatever Israel can offer.
 
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[/COLOR]Israel already offered in the negotiation with the Palestinians that they will have the sovereignty over the doom of the Rock and Al-Aqsa, while Israel will have control on the Jewish Quarter in the Old city and the Western Wall, and the underground tunnels which show the temple mountain history. Remember that before this place was sacred to Muslims, the Jewish Temple stood there and the entire place was constructed by the ancient Jewish people under King David and Kind Solomon.

There is no contradiction between letting Muslims visit their holly places in Jerusalem and having diplomatic relations with Israel. Since 1967, under Israeli control all the holy places in Jerusalem are opened to all believers from any religious. After the 1967 war Israel avoided any harm to Al-Aqsa or the Dome of the Rock. This cannot be said on the Jordanians who ruled Jerusalem until 1967 and burned all the synagogues in the Old City, and desecrated the oldest Jewish cemetery in the world on the top of the Olive Mountain.
 
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After the 1967 war Israel avoided any harm to Al-Aqsa or the Dome of the Rock.

And gave the control of the Al-Aqsa to a Waqf within minutes of taking over the old Jerusalem.

This cannot be said on the Jordanians who ruled Jerusalem until 1967 and burned all the synagogues in the Old City, and desecrated the oldest Jewish cemetery in the world on the top of the Olive Mountain.

People here don't want to listen to these facts. They are anathema to their worldview.
 
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Orignionaly posted by Road Runner in another thread
Writings of Ben Gurion on Pakistan

“The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. “This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. “Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. “It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans.”
 
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The above is a very important quote, I encourage all Pakistanis, Israelis, Indians and Americans to read it - sear it into your brains and your heart
BUT, of course it is so important that we must discover where, in which work does this quote attributed to Ben Gurion appear:

“This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. “Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. “It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans.”

The first person who can conclusively show that this above quote is what Ben Gurion had to say, will win the hearts and minds of all Pakistanis , Israelis, Indians and Americans -- it is a big prize and I am sure that the members of this forum will not let this prize go unclaimed.

ON the hand, if it turn about that this is less than the truth, well -- consequences should follow in the same way as consequences will follow if the quote attributed ot ben Gurion is proved -- isn't that fair??
 
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No Ill Will...
ispi088021.jpg

Yeah.... Sure!
 
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The above is a very important quote, I encourage all Pakistanis, Israelis, Indians and Americans to read it - sear it into your brains and your heart
BUT, of course it is so important that we must discover where, in which work does this quote attibuted to ben Gurion appear:



The first person who can conclusively show that this above quote is what Ben Gurion had to say, will win the hearts and minds of all Pakistanis , Israelis, Indian sand Americans -- it is a big prize and I am sure that the members of this forum will not let this prize go unclaimed.

ON the hand, if it turn about that this is less than the truth, well -- consequences should follow in the same way as consequences will follow if the quote attributed ot ben Gurion is proved -- isn't that fair??


This quote is a part of conspiracy, i didn't find and proof that these words from Ben Gurion. In archives of Jewish chronicle 9 August 1967 no record of this publish.
 
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The above is a very important quote, I encourage all Pakistanis, Israelis, Indians and Americans to read it - sear it into your brains and your heart
BUT, of course it is so important that we must discover where, in which work does this quote attibuted to ben Gurion appear:



The first person who can conclusively show that this above quote is what Ben Gurion had to say, will win the hearts and minds of all Pakistanis , Israelis, Indian sand Americans -- it is a big prize and I am sure that the members of this forum will not let this prize go unclaimed.

ON the hand, if it turn about that this is less than the truth, well -- consequences should follow in the same way as consequences will follow if the quote attributed ot ben Gurion is proved -- isn't that fair??

There is apparently a whole article on this by our old forum hand.. solomon2.. on his blog..
Solomon's House: Debunking "Ben-Gurion on Pakistan"
 
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Orignionaly posted by Road Runner in another thread
Writings of Ben Gurion on Pakistan

“The world Zionist movement should not be neglectful of the dangers of Pakistan to it. And Pakistan now should be its first target, for this ideological State is a threat to our existence. And Pakistan, the whole of it, hates the Jews and loves the Arabs. “This lover of the Arabs is more dangerous to us than the Arabs themselves. For that matter, it is most essential for the world Zionism that it should now take immediate steps against Pakistan. “Whereas the inhabitants of the Indian peninsula are Hindus whose hearts have been full of hatred towards Muslims, therefore, India is the most important base for us to work there from against Pakistan. “It is essential that we exploit this base and strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism, by all disguised and secret plans.”

Don't you get tired of spreading lies? All Pakistan's problems are solved that you have time for this slandering?
 
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Religion has become a tool in the hands of tyrants so to end the religious tyranny, we must limit religion to a personal capacity.


Ordinary view of thinking, any way your point of view.



Irrelevant and shortsighted argument.


My irrelevant statement more relevant then your post which full of contradictions. Once you want religion to be a personal level but don't want to understand how & when & is it possible or not. (Discussion never consist over straight line methods but there need to look examples to understand).
Your thinking remains with yours but if you want any implementation then only your words are not enough you have to take a broad look.


Christian oriented?

What makes you say that?

Linked this paragraph with paragraph (relevant and shortsighted argument.) May be you get something.


They don't go around bombing their own people because of religious differences, they don't kill their own leaders who comment on their religion, they don't do much of violent stuff we like in the name of religion.

Very short sighted view & emotional touch. There are different stages of human mind status psychology, There is stage when a people or nation after achievement of goal get time to concentrate over own structure.
There is stage when people or nation never achieve its goal and busy for particular status of rest.

You can't mix them. My answer in one of two stages so find time for think over it.

T-Faz

To criticize own religion in actual very easy job, blame whole setup because of some ill minded actions of some people also very easy, but to eradicate them from this system is hard job. As you pointing out, these are not right methods to solve problems. Yes there is so many additions came into our religion but problem is, now people's minds are oriented over these additions. You are not only one but many other who have pain for this destruction of religion even can't express their ideas in public. Change educational policy, revise Madrissa education structure, slowly and steadily. At this moment if you want to reshape it it will break and result of more violence, Bring it into mold form so then you get (not only you) what you are looking for.


So Islam is the most peaceful and friendly religion but you need to enforce it with strict laws like Hudood ordinances, Blasphemy laws and what now.


In our religion there is very simple law, if somebody complaint for something or in criminal act then he must have to provide 3 witnesses to prove, Couple of day after assassination of Suleman Taseer there an application registered in Dera Ghazi Khan, applicant said that HE HEARD FROM HIS FRIEND & HE ASSUMED THAT (J) INSULTED QUR'AN E PAK & PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH).

So any sensible person cant believe over this pathetic application totally illogical & ill minded behavior, and more interesting that after application had submitted police arrested that alleged blasphemer. So what you will do if social religious lever reached that point?


This hero of yours called Rehman made billions out of the Afghan war and gave us all the ills in our society. You should look into his role at the Ojhri camp blast.

You got very emotional and i think you are replying me without making a look over my post.
Thread title named as "Hero of Afghan war General Akhtar Abdul Rehman" he is not my hero at all. I just referred you to thread and if you don't want...up to you.

That all story i know very well what wrong & what right. Thank you.



Where is peace, patience & tolerance in our country?

I will not oppose you where i also stand on point from you are thinking about peace, patience & tolerance in our country. If people closed their eyes & ears from real words of Islam then we can't pointing our finger over religion.



Source is not reputable.

Thus the debate.


What destructive force, the mullahs, extremists and militants are already in our country.

Ok if they exist then there need to terminate them, either they will come on proper line or otherwise get out from Pakistan and let they preach their self made ideas somewhere else. We have no place for these kind of people. Question who will take responsibility to do it?

Only government.


Why should we care about the Arabs?

Because of, this is international community, we cant do it as you stated, in my point of view we have to discuss with our Arab partners over this issue and clear our coming position. I don't think there will be any hurdle in making relations with Israel except our people.


But the Arabs have not really hurt its enemies in any way what so ever where as Israel knows how to hurt.

Very good point, you have put in mind while making move toward Israel as may be Israel knows how to hurt us.
 
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