we pakistanis and indians

[aviator]

1) Most of Pakistan's terrirory was in Ummayad Caliphate...which included Multan on one side and spain on the other.
Traditionaly area, to the right of river indus was known as hind..and persian empires influence started from the left side of indus.
Northwestern tribal area was with khorasan. This is the biggest lie in history that whole of pakistan was part of india.

2) Pakistan is a group of geneticaly diverse people.

a)40 million pushtuns have nothing to do with india. They are majority ethinic in Khyber Pakhtun Khawa and Afghanistan.

b)Then there are the hazaras again nothing to do with india.

c)Then you have baloch around 8 million of them..an ethinic group living in western Pak...and Iran's province of sistan-baluchistan.

Good point, I fail to understand why my fellow Indians fail to understand these points.

d) The group which indians claim is associated with them is punjabis.
Let's examine this province of punjab.

-you have millions of people in punjab from families of Sayyed, Qureshi, shah, Salara, Awans, the Khagga, the Dhund Abbasi, the Dhanyal, the Hans, the Hashmi (Nekokara), the Kahut and the Bodla,Thaheem ...their ancestors started comming to south punjab once it was part of ummayad caliphate and later abbasid caliphate....Muhammad Bin Qasim himself came up to Multan with 20000 Syrian Cavilary.

- The families whose ancestors converted to islam include jatts, rajputs , araees and few other muhajir families and they are in large numbers but not in majority as our indian friends claim.


-There were mass migrations from muslim areas of central asia and persia to muslim ruled indian subcontinent due to Mongol invasions...and from Karachi to Punjab..people with their decent could be found ranging from sindh to northern pakistan and even in kashmir......

- In Punjab tribes who claim to come from afghanistan are gardezis (from gardez) a shia tribe in south punjab, sadozai ( again from Tarnak, Kandahar, and Kabul and are decendants of ahmed shah abdali) are spread out from peshawar to lahore and kashmir with some decedants even in present day india.

- Northern Punjab...u have people like niazis (pushtun tribe but mainly in mianwali, with significant niazi diaspora in lahor, karachi, islamabad , chakwal, parts of afghanistan)...some also call these ppl "punjabi pathans" espeacialy those in punjab...some famous niazis include imran khan a famous politician.

So Pakistan is a country with 170 million people with diverse ethinic backgrounds including arab, indian, persian, afghan, central asian, and not to forget people from Kalash in gilgit baltistan who have been proven to be exact decedents of alexanders forces.....till now many of them arnt even muslim.

You proved me RIGHT that a significant portion of pakistani punjabi population are outsider and not genuinely Punjabi

Agreed that they have been living here for some time but it is analogous to white Americans living in USA. Atleast they dont boast about Mayan and other civilizations as their own, in case of pakistani Punjabis color differences are not so much but atleast many of them should not boast about accomplishments of area before 8th century as their own.

FYI : Approx 6 Million Hindus/Sikhs moved from that side to Indian side and similar number moved from India to pakistani punjab or sindh in 1947. Total pakistani population in 1947 was 32 million right ?

Thank you.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Recipe bhi chahiye

Thts not kebab! thts a tika.

 

[divya]

Thts not kebab! thts a tika.

Sir jee i am veggie google it. there are 100 of links for murgh kebabs. I think that will help you out.

 

[riCoh]

I guess mr riCoh u havent read my post properly...i talked about bloodline even in Pakistan's Punjab other than araees, rajputs, and jutts who are natives there are millions of people with different ethinic backgrounds in Pakistan's punjab which were never local to subcontinent.and they are majority...plz i request you to read my post again....i didnt talk about cultures i talked about ethinicities....dont try to change what i said.

Pakistan was made for muslims, not for any particular race, thats why we welcomed 8 million muhajirs from present day india....and our first embassador to UN was a Ukranian Jewish Convert Muhammad Asad nothing to do with us culturally or ehtinicaly yet he was our brother , part of Ummah....thats why he came to Pakistan.
No matter which bloodline you are from if you are a muslim you are part of Ummah (Muslim Nation)...ethinic nationalism (ur choice) was discouraged and disliked extremely by our Prophet (P.B.U.H)......anyways check my post I REPEAT AS I POSTED IN THAT POST majority of the residents of Pakistan's punjab arnt same ethinicaly as residents of your punjab...and i repeat again we dont share culture....that is why we got seperated...we always had a seperate culture...our historical elders and ancestors and heroes are your villains..there is no common ground between us...if you still claim there is any..u r more than welcome but you cant change the reality....

People of Pakistan's Punjab arn't all Punjabi, there are millions of people with other ethnicities and between them and baloch and pathans...1 thing is common that is they are all muslim...that was the concept of Pakistan..thats why they are together...Pakistan wasnt created on the basis of some god dammed ethnicity or culture....even in this sence Pak's Punjab shares nothing with Indian Punjab....still if you being an indian punjabi wanna be with Pak you are more than welcome to float this new idea of Indian Punjab joining Pakistan lol...just kidding P

i would have loved to talk to you if you would have come up with facts and not brainwashed typical crap...which some of our indian friends in this forum use to counter the existence of a nation with 170 million people and they are doing it after more than 60 years..which shows they havnt recognized us till now...then along with that they expect us that we will live peacefully side by side as neighbors....How Pathetic and Ironic...I feel pity for people with this mentality

Nobody is countering your existence. Pakistan is a reality and i am very happy that it got separated.

But since you are talking about ethnic BS, let me tell you one thing, drawing a line on the map doesn't change ethnicities,cultures and people.
Pakistan was created purely on religious basis and if u read my post, i never mentioned religion.


Dont feel pity for me, save it for yourself.

 

[Desert Fox]

Nobody is countering your existence. Pakistan is a reality and i am very happy that it got separated.

But since you are talking about ethnic BS, let me tell you one thing, drawing a line on the map doesn't change ethnicities,cultures and people.
Pakistan was created purely on religious basis and if u read my post, i never mentioned religion.


Dont feel pity for me, save it for yourself.

wtf! what the hell are you blabbing about ! MadDog was replying to your fellow indian who was claiming that Pakistanis are the same race as indians!

Jeez, don't you people read before posting!

And yes, in the case of Pakistan and india our cultues, ethnicites, and people never were the same! Get over it and move on!

 

[DesiGuy]

the first page is sooo emotional. brother , neighbor..love. .......LOL

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

You can a day or two to prove that Hindus are Aryans i dont mind if you need more time for that

You can take 1 year or 2 or your whole life to deny the fact the north indians are not aryans..

 

[kingdurgaking]

Who are indians?
definition keeps on changing over time with the increasing and decreasing land boundaries of subcontinent.

Indians are one who is definitely not one of you... No Indian ever think like the way you think... shame on you to talk like this about your own country... if you have become NRI means you are not god ...if you have couple of dollars in your pocket means you shouldnt forget the past nor you should forget your root from which you sprung up..... you are there because of a nation called India where you are born, brought up , fed, knowledge implanted.. hope your father doesnt see your such crappy post ... otherwise for sure he would feel bad for giving birth and bringing up a child like you...(i know this is a personal attack but a Indian should not have such a low grade mentality)

If you are not indian we are happy that you represent our great country ... which itself shows its true power... and shows your country is fit for nothing.. as you cant represent the same

We indians are one who stand united always... our policy unity in diversity in which we believe... we are executing the same.. people here are split by caste,creed etc.. still at the end we have the bond called Indian which have hold us together.. To say we are the only country in the world which believed in unity... we have showed fingers to several countries which believed that we will be broken into several pieces

our country has several boundries within our self .. but all the boundries are held together which is very difficult to be shaken...

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

frustration on the other side???, but aren't you the one who's hell bent on proving yourself an "aryan"

lol, Hell bent?? I am just telling whats is truth, if you or your countrymen can't digest this then its your problem..

jeez, indians can't get over the fact that Pakistanis are different from indians!!!

lol,,i don't know to laugh or cry on this...(Delusion at its best)

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Indians are one who is definitely not one of you... No Indian ever think like the way you think... shame on you to talk like this about your own country... if you have become NRI means you are not god ...if you have couple of dollars in your pocket means you shouldnt forget the past nor you should forget your root from which you sprung up..... you are there because of a nation called India where you are born, brought up , fed, knowledge implanted.. hope your father doesnt see your such crappy post ... otherwise for sure he would feel bad for giving birth and bringing up a child like you...(i know this is a personal attack but a Indian should not have such a low grade mentality)

If you are not indian we are happy that you represent our great country ... which itself shows its true power... and shows your country is fit for nothing.. as you cant represent the same

We indians are one who stand united always... our policy unity in diversity in which we believe... we are executing the same.. people here are split by caste,creed etc.. still at the end we have the bond called Indian which have hold us together.. To say we are the only country in the world which believed in unity... we have showed fingers to several countries which believed that we will be broken into several pieces

our country has several boundries within our self .. but all the boundries are held together which is very difficult to be shaken...

You are wasting your time, that person is not indian..!!

 

[Hyde]

Peace Kebab

Now I am hungry... off to dinner!

have some aryan kebabs

Oye mere liye kuch veg order karwa do

seems like yahan to full mehfil saji hoe hai

Oh mujhe bhi party join karne hain....

2 plate Nihari ke meray liye bhi order karo

 

[Desert Fox]

lol, Hell bent?? I am just telling whats is truth, if you or your countrymen can't digest this then its your problem..

there is no truth to it, you have no facts to back up your silly claim

lol,,i don't know to laugh or cry on this...(Delusion at its best)

laughing and crying is all what your capable of! thanks for proving my point

and if anyone's delusional then its you who can't prove that Pakistanis and indians are the same!

anyway i g2g, enough time wasted on people who chose to live in a fantasy world!

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

there is no truth to it, you have no facts to back up your silly claim

Do you have any fact to deny your BS ?

laughing and crying is all what your capable of! thanks for proving my point

After all we learnt all these from our pakistani counterparts,,sangat ka aser to hoga hi..

and if anyone's delusional then its you who can't prove that Pakistanis and indians are the same !

Neither i wana prove this..! Enjoy..

anyway i g2g, enough time wasted on people who chose to live in a fantasy world!

Yeah i can figure out there there are many..! including you..

 

[Gabbar]

Peace Kebab

 

[Gabbar]

India History

Aryans and Dravidians - A controversial issue

The most basic division of the Indian society is of Aryans and Dravidians. According to this division, nearly 72% of Indians are Aryans and 28% are Dravidians. The north Indians are the descendants of Aryans and the south Indians are Dravidians. The languages spoken in five states of south India are considered Dravidian languages and most of the languages spoken in the north are considered Aryan languages. The general script of the Aryan languages is different from the general script of Dravidian languages. The Indians also distinguish themselves by the general north Indian accent and general south Indian accent.

According to general Indian legend, the Aryans arrived in north India somewhere from Iran and southern Russia at around 1500 BC. Before the Aryans, the Dravidian people resided in India. The Aryans disregarded the local cultures. They began conquering and taking control over regions in north India and at the same time pushed the local people southwards or towards the jungles and mountains in north India. According to this historical fact the general division of Indian society is made. North Indians are Aryans and south Indians are Dravidians. But this division isn’t proper because of many reasons.

Many Indians immigrated from one part of India to other parts of India and not all local people of north India were pushed southwards by the Aryans. Some stayed and served the Aryans and others moved to live in the forests and the jungles of north India. Before the arrival of the Aryans there were also other communities in India like Sino-Mongoloids and Austroloids. There were also other foreign immigrations and invaders who arrived in India, from time to time.

There are many that completely doubt that there was ever any Aryan invasion in India. This skepticism is based on the dating of the Aryan invasion of India and the fact that Hinduism and the caste system are believed to have been established as the result of the meetings between the intruding Aryans and original residents of India, the Dravidians.

The caste system is believed to have been established by the Aryans. The fair skinned Aryans who occupied parts of India established the caste system, which allowed only them to be the priests (Brahman), aristocracy (Kshatria) and the businessmen (Vaisia) of the society. Below them in hierarchy were the Sudras who consisted of two communities. One community was of the locals who were subdued by the Aryans and the other were the descendants of Aryans with locals. In Hindu religious stories there are many wars between the good Aryans and the dark skinned demons and devils. The different Gods also have dark skinned slaves. There are stories of demon women trying to seduce good Aryan men in deceptive ways. There were also marriages between Aryan heroes and demon women. Many believe that these incidences really occurred in which, the gods and the positive heroes were people of Aryan origin. And the demons, the devils and the dark skinned slaves were in fact the original residence of India whom the Aryans coined as monsters, devil, demons and slaves. Normally the date given to Aryan invasion is around 1500 BC. But according to Hinduism experts some of the events in Hinduism occurred much earlier. Some of the events like the great war in the Mahabharta epic is believed to have occurred (based on astronomical research) 7000 years ago.

According to this Hindu experts the word Aryan is a misinterpretation of the original Sanskrit word, Arya. Arya means pure or good in Sanskrit. In the holy Vedas the good people were called Arya. Some of the European scholars of Indian culture in the 19th century were Germans. These German scholars who found that Swastika was also a holy symbol among the Hindus distorted, the word Arya to Aryan.

With this work, the authors, all three renowned Yoga and Vedic scholars with multiple publications to their names, set out to challenge the generally held theory that advanced culture began in Sumer in southern Mesopotamia. Relying on a reexamination of redated Vedic literature and denying that an "Aryan invasion" from the north ever took place, which allegedly would have introduced advanced culture into India at a relatively late date, they claim instead that advanced culture already existed in the Indus valley?before the flourishing of Sumer. The work is broad in scope, well documented, and extensively illustrated. Although this book is written for the lay reader, the authors hope that it will stir the scholarly world as well. Public and academic libraries will want to have this title.?Ria Koopmans-de Bruijn, C.V. Starr East Asian Lib., Columbia Univ.