We deserve to know the truth about the tirah valley operation and 35 punjab regiment

[thrilainmanila]

First and foremost i'm not hear to mislead or mock the bravery of the dead, i'm hear to establish some facts, wajhat s khan is a guy who has been embedded with the army for quite some time, its unusual for him to post some news spin without having actually inside knowledge the guy is very reliable. Hes not anti-pak and he's been involved in projects which are pro pak army, ppl fail to realize that tirah valley was the spot for a previous operation the year before and it ended in disaster, why dont we just freely discuss it instead of brishing it under the carpet. I'm willing to close this thread so long as i'm PM'd/messaged the details, i know there are indians on this site who will come on here and try and paint mockary of pak army so if ppl who know what really happened what to message me then i'm kool with that.

We shud trust our army... we will know later about whats happening now.. if army is not telling us then why we push so hard to know...
Indtead of that we sud try to eliminate crupption and sud know whats happening in our berucracy whos doing crupption...
Let the army leave alone at this moment and support them unconditionally..

No this is incorrect i support the pak fauj fight against terrorists, but lets not forget the maytars how would you like it if a family member was injured/killed in action and the army only presented a very watered down report of actual events its not fair to the family members and its not fair to the dead, they deserve better then that, if in actuality 100 soldiers were shaheed, the public need to know about this, mashallah terrorism has reduced, since the operation and it has been a sacrifice, but we need to learn from our mistakes, like I said as long as i'm messaged about some of the details i'll be content.

 

[Bratva]

I can give you a very detailed explanation:

1) Many complex and highly dangerous enemy hideouts were identified and monitored, including terrorists safe heavens, training camps and support infrastructure.

2) In the interest of the national security and after consultation and approval of the civilian government, due to potential needing of the political backing if serious casualties were received; the operation was initiated to clean up the area from the terrorists killing innocent citizens of Pakistan and threatening the state's control over this region.

3) During this operation, 75% of the enemies and terrorists were killed in combat, 80% of the area was cleared, and heavy above average operational casualties were received by the Army. The remainder of the terrorists were able to flee inside Afghanistan.

4) Collateral damage was above average due to terrorists hiding out inside or close to civilian population, who couldn't be removed from the area due to time sensitivities.

5) Terrorists scums were killed once for all and they won't be coming back to hurt the Pakistani nation. Therefore, the operation was successful and the nation salutes its soldiers who gave up their life to protect their country and their nation.

If you expect someone from the Army to come and give you specifics of this operation, it won't happen. It doesn't happen anywhere else either, for at least 10 years or so, till this kind of stuff is made public.

You should now close the thread.

Emmm, Media recently conducted survey of the area where alleged incident of 35 regiment took place. There is no civilian population in that particular area. GOC of the Khyber himself admitted, Heaviest fighting took place in particular area. So your account of Civilian casualties is a hogwash

@Jango @balixd would you like to chip in ?

 

[Jungibaaz]

There are some very valid reasons why you hear about this being the toughest fight, but suffice to say that the army does know best as to why it hasn't responded (yet) to any speculation, whether true, or exaggerated.

 

[Bratva]

There are some very valid reasons why you here about this being the toughest fight, but suffice to say that the army does know best as to why it hasn't responded (yet) to any speculation, whether true, or exaggerated.

There was an ambush in Khyber agency last year during khyber-I Op. It occurred in a semi urban area Around 10 vehicles (mixture of heavy duty trucks and jeeps) and 1 tank got destroyed. Army hid the whole incident. It was TTP propaganda machine who put the video on their pages. I mean how many times army going repeat their mistakes in khyber agency and Tirah valley and lose precious lives of our soldiers again and again without learning anything from their previous mistakes

 

[thrilainmanila]

We shud trust our army... we will know later about whats happening now.. if army is not telling us then why we push so hard to know...
Indtead of that we sud try to eliminate crupption and sud know whats happening in our berucracy whos doing crupption...
Let the army leave alone at this moment and support them unconditionally..

theres been so many operations/battles that get brushed under the carpet, theres so many incidents which get unreported its like the pak army higher tier dont give a shit about there lives. and they keep on repeating the same mistakes,

 

[Sinnerman108]

From all accounts this was the bloodiest fighting pak army faced in the entire operation with many men killed, I'd like to know in detail what happened, as some one who honetsly cares about the pak army, the public deserve to know what happened to the brave men who laid down there lives in the fighting against the terrorists. It makes no sense for so many to be killed in such a short period of time, but I'm making this thread for people to come forward so we can discuss this and learn some facts about what really happened, its important that we know of this mission so we can avoid the sons of tomorrow not losing there lives due to poor intel. I am not trying to created propangada against the pak fauj i just want to know a little truth.

Precisely what do you want to achieve after knowing what you demand ?

 

[Viper0011.]

Emmm, Media recently conducted survey of the area where alleged incident of 35 regiment took place. There is no civilian population in that particular area. GOC of the Khyber himself admitted, Heaviest fighting took place in particular area. So your account of Civilian casualties is a hogwash

@Jango @balixd would you like to chip in ?

You missed the ENTIRE point behind my post!!!! Re-read about three times, take a few deep breaths to absorb the content, and then respond. More than likely, you won't as you'd have understood the content of the post!

 

[VCheng]

There are some very valid reasons why you hear about this being the toughest fight, but suffice to say that the army does know best as to why it hasn't responded (yet) to any speculation, whether true, or exaggerated.

I think the word you are looking for is "censorship".

 

[Jungibaaz]

I think the word you are looking for is "censorship".

Precisely, the bread and butter of every information ministry on earth.

 

[VCheng]

Precisely, the bread and butter of every information ministry on earth.

Big Brother knows best, of course.

 

[Zhukov]

I remember that jingo Wajahat Khan reporting before Zarb-e-Azb
"army is exausted, they dont want to fight in North anymore. They will resist any such operation in waziristan because it is too tough." and bla bla bla
like saying army is afraid to death to fight against Taliban. Interestingly Army moved into Zarb-e-Azb on its own motion While the civs were hesitating.

He is always like it.
Casualties of one night vs whole Zarb-e-Azb.Stupidity at its best. Or probably yellow journalism.

Its also interesting that when Taliban are hanged the people who make noise most are the profound seculars of this Nation.

 

[OrionHunter]

Here are the details from a Pakistani source .....Terminal X on Facebook:

Operation Khyber-2: Reports of some heavy casualties on Pakistani side have came in this morning. According to various sources, 35 Punjab Regiment has lost 'dozens' of men in multiple Taliban attacks since last 36 hours in Tirah valley.

Bodies of martyred officers and soldiers were found attached with IEDs, the Army suffered a few casualties in recovering the bodies as well. Many bodies are yet to be recovered.

57 Baluch was sent in for reinforcement and both the units are on offensive, aided by PAF.

[TX]

Comments

 

[RealNapster]

@thrilainmanila

your thread is based on a tweet done by Wajahat S Khan which claimed that we lost more men in one encounter then entire Zarb e Azb :

https://twitter.com/x/status/579513358384177152

He didn't provide any other details so clearly there is an element of mischief in this type of reporting , there are long held narratives that are being challenged and crushed as the Army moves into militant strongholds in FATA which is

Its possible that we could have lost between 10 to 15 soldiers in one encounter , I personally know a unit that lost 9 in one encounter in an operation in south waziristan, so losses have happened but the degree of exaggeration and myth propagation, that even seasoned journalists are guilty of , far exceeds the reality. For a unit to loose 10 soldier in one encounter is still a huge loss as units are like close knit families.

Never the less , in no encounter the militants have been able to stand their ground , the Army has been pushing them out of one stronghold after another.

Coming to Shahdat of the Lt Col , a Lt Col is the Commanding Officer (CO) of the unit and in Pakistan Army COs have always led from the front , that is how the tradition of our Army is , the COs go into battle and not sit in the battalion headquarter mess

No. We lost 41+ soldiers at that night. I have a friend from naala (Terah valley), and he is is the eye witness.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

From all accounts this was the bloodiest fighting pak army faced in the entire operation with many men killed, I'd like to know in detail what happened, as some one who honetsly cares about the pak army, the public deserve to know what happened to the brave men who laid down there lives in the fighting against the terrorists. It makes no sense for so many to be killed in such a short period of time, but I'm making this thread for people to come forward so we can discuss this and learn some facts about what really happened, its important that we know of this mission so we can avoid the sons of tomorrow not losing there lives due to poor intel. I am not trying to created propangada against the pak fauj i just want to know a little truth.

whats with 35 Punjab tag? be clear about your assumptions

if you are making a claim or someone in the media is tweeting an outragious claim then burden of proof is on claimant not the respondent

the war on terror is still going on and some details are already in the public domain given out directly by ISPR and some via media visits. if that is not good enough for you then tough. you are not in the right position , rank or authority to demand any further information.

if you are invoking the public's need to know clause then raise it via your MNA, MPA or senator to launch a public inquiry and a standing committee that bullies the army to come over and "EXPLAIN" in detail about the operations.

as for our sons not loosing their lives is concerned, I am sorry but this is an occupational hazard @Bratva thats for you too. no force is immune to losses in the counter insurgency operations be it former or current supper powers or a force of a third word country like Pakistan or Sri Lanka. ambushes and IED's are the bread and butter of the gorilla force and as for TTP it employs children, women and men with Burkas and Quran to hide or transport explosives in their attacks on forces on the move. if you have better suggestions then do share how to ensure 100% safety while passing through populated areas maybe NATO, Iraqis and Syrians can also learn few things to avoid making "stupid mistakes" as you put it.

finally @thrilainmanila you shoudl start your quest by contacting the originator of that tweet, and use google, to find out all the press releases by ISPR and videos on Tirah valley, like explained by someone, in formation is already there dont expect others to do it for you by making a half-arsed thread like this.

@M.SAAD as far as TTP videos of bombings are concerned I have seen videos titled PAF killing Pashtons that include B2 "spirit" bombing as well and I have also seen the burnt out corpses still from Falujah used to show belonging to Red Mosque "masjid Zarar" in Islamabad, with the required sounds and voices. I am not aware of any heavy fighting in population areas of Tirah valley , I doubt if anyone was allowed to stay there before the launch of the operation but if you know otherwise then do share.

 

[TaimiKhan]

From what i know about this incident with respect to 35 Punjab, there was either intelligence failure or a stupid decision from the officers in command which led to so many death in a single incident. Nearly one whole company was dead / injured. From what i heard, a ridge / feature was captured in hurry before proper due diligence and its a very lush green area and the enemy being native knew the area, so once the army guys reach the spot, the enemy came out from everywhere and engaged them from all sides and the resulting chaos led to so many dead. 35 punjab guys fought bravely but lost lot of men.

Even few days ago when we heard that 07 army men died in a suicide explosion in SWA, in reality it was a check post which was over run and the total dead were 11 men with 4 injured and the total number of guys in that check post was 15. Some casualties occurred due to our own artillery fire. As per practice if a check post if being overrun, artillery fire is called in which will result in own deaths too and enemy deaths too.

But officially we will never know the exact details of every engagement. But many times we have lost men due to wrong decision making of officers in command. And this is how military affairs work. History if full of instances where wrong decision by military leaders has caused casualties.