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We can't match India militarily: Pak def min

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thats what u r trying to explain us sincr 1947 but we cant understand ur point because we dont stick to numbers we prefer quality and capability of our forces which u can never and thats why our missiles test dont fail.................... as yours!!!!!!!!!!!:pakistan:

Can you prove your BS about your so called quality????

All you guys can do is claim and never wanna provide a single link about all your BS..

The only area where your quality is higher is the art of denial and making big claims.
 
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Mods should close this thread before it gets any worse. Besides I think this has been posted already.
 
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How many times do I have to say that please stop comparing India-Pakistan Forces... The motive was to discuss pakistani attitude...
 
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My God what is wrong with the indians - once in a while you get suicide trolls who loose the plot and start posting dirty pictures and swearing at peoples mothers. Disgraceful.
 
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Size and quantity doesn't matter much in these scenarios. Look at the USA vs. Vietnam for example, or China vs. India.

Are you claiming that we will be fighting Pakistan in a guerilla war? Coz not sure how Vietnam and Pakistan become an apt comparison....

Besides....The US could have carprt bombed the out of vietnam if "winning" was the only goal.....so please provide examples with perspective in mind..
 
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Besides....The US could have carprt bombed the out of vietnam if "winning" was the only goal.....so please provide examples with perspective in mind..

LOL, that is exactly what they tried to do. Haven't you read up about the Vietnam war?

Curtis LeMay, Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force, once famously said: "We're going to bomb them back to the stone age". The number of bombs they used was beyond belief.

And why didn't they do that to China in the 1950's, when we pushed American forces out of North Korea?

If even the sole superpower America, could be countered by third-world countries... then for India to assume an "easy victory" against Pakistan, is frankly laughable.

(Also, if you think guerrilla fighters are bad, then think about the fact that Pakistan has nuclear weapons... which are a thousand times worse.)
 
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My God what is wrong with the indians - once in a while you get suicide trolls who loose the plot and start posting dirty pictures and swearing at peoples mothers. Disgraceful.

Yes, hopefully the moderators will close this shameful thread and ban that troll.
 
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What matter is this


When ever our friends decide to talk about their recent purchases just remember this asset we have its called the Equalizer

This talk about conventional war, and conventional weapons do not do well -

What all nations need to look at is

a) Future is Russia - India - China - Pakistan - Iran - Middle east
b) If you want proxy war just look at what happened to Afghanistan and Iraq learn lessons from fighting
someone else's proxy wars


From a tactical point of view - India cannot sustain a three or four front war , and to be honest India really should look towards peace as oppose to starting new arms race in region

I think days of conventional war have ended - we live in world of 2 days war outcome

and sadly , due to the wind pattern in Sub continent any Nuclear fall out either side of border will ultimately destroy lands on either side

And I think , the wise man's view is resolve differences the talk of picking a fight with china is suicidal


Well in term of quantity vs quality perhaps what our Military head / analyst was trying to point was
look we will not sustain a 45 days war , the old conventional war if we are attacked it will be pretty stright forward quick path to mutual destruction

We can only sustain fight for 30 days , and likely Pakistan will use its Nuclear strike capabilities on a hostile nation

Des that points to a impotance in Indian forces , No , does it says the Indina airforce is useless No , what it points to is hard facts

a) World has changed - its not about who has more planes , or more frigates
b) Its about looking towards future

The current weapons trend will lead to chaos - and I think Mr Manmohan is right to persue a path of peace

Singling out China !!! is quite suicidal

An attack from Western front , and North , and East - plus possible second strike from Sea is not something India could handle , and frankly speaking is not really needed because most countries interested in SCO organization - should be really thinking about Trade and not a meaningless war


What Pakistani Minister stated is simple

"Don't expect us to be in long war, when we are attacked - we will go for a shortest path to victory"

And I think - the message is quite clear - inviting China - into mix just creates more headaches for India to be honest - I don't see why there even should be war in the region

While war may be a dream of a political nuckle head , who wants to attain votes perhaps reality is that the region just cannot afford to be thrown back to 1800 again


CHINA + Pakistan

Just too much to handle, who knows next time you turn around Srilanka or Bangladesh might also be on the other side

But it is tad bit bothersome why all of sudden India wants to start an arms race specially when its economy is doing well


At present India is going thru an Identity crisis
It does not know what to do

It has abandoned its close ally Russia , and its picking a fight with Russians best Ally China , and it already does not gets along with Pakistan who it cannot handle on its best days with out intervention from United Nations.



Air-force:
Virtual Tie - India has more planes but Pakistan has better missiles and 100 JF17 adds a punch
One could argue a small advantage in minor scrimmages but otherwise its a dead tie


Military:
India has better transport capabilities , helicopters and number of troops , Pakistan has tactical nukes it can fire from artillery so any troop advantage can be quickly done, India and Pakistan both have tanks , India has some special weapons (Smart bombs to take out bunch of tanks in one shot), but we have unlimited supply of baktar shiken, and hand held missiles. Same goes for helicopters does not matter if you have 2000 , if we have 10000 anza missiles the helicopters are toast. Plus its a known fact we own better artillery units, india still operates the age old stuff transported on trucks, the advantage India has is very minor


Missiles:
Dead tie , both nations have capability to cover each others full territory and any bases near by in other countries so its a dead tie , India has a better space program so they have slight advantage with that but that has no bearing on war , unless india setup a base on moon.


Navy:
Well untill recently india enjoyed a great advantage in this sector but with the arrival of Pakistani cruise missiles and , TOT of submarine and frigate technologies to Pakistan , Pakistan will have enough capability to hold its ground if not invade India , with the new ships arriving in Pakistan , and Submarines and missiles while India will hold an advantage with their aircraft carrier - but again , that is a trivial advantage because with one nuclear strike , all the planes on aircraft carrier would become "unoperational" and the aircraft carrier would be a sitting duck specially if the missile / aircraft was stealth, I would assume advantage india here but we have more trust in our NAVY and it will get stronger.

THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER - and Posiden crafts would be new to mix but the aircraft carrier is more of a hindrance to Indian navy - it does not adds much - China / Pakistan already have Aircraft killer missiles


Finally the Stealth Strategic Assets:

We don't have it nor do india but even if India does gets Russian Stealth (thats if Russia trusts india specially after its snub in favor of USA) - Pakistan already is researching on its own stealth

Either way you look at it its just a virtual dead tie the situation is such that imagine if two ppl were arm wrestling and once they started there was just a tilt of just 10 degree to one side but after 1 hour nothing happened that is the situation with India and Pakistan.


Settelites & Observation:
Well Pakistan is sending few of its own GPS settelites up and china is also independent , probbly india is too so again no real advantage


Considering the above , if India decides to challenge China , I mean that is just suicidal the marginal numeric advantage that india had , nulllifies , and all sectors where it enjoyed an advantage now become "dis advantage" plus ...

now India has to protect 1000% more territory , diluting its defenses , because before they just watched
few 100 km now they have to protect 5000km plus region

Its just a political madness to really say China is India's enemy -


The problem I see is ... very simple a small piece of land which is conflict zone , and if the nations could solve this issue , they could perhaps put a curb on expenses on defense - and in today's world it is 100% doable provided people approach it with open mind (specially Indians)


There are countless projects like Iran - Pakistan - India - China gas line
Trade zones openness
Free economies for major players in region

I mean the benefits are tremendous - every thing world needs lies here !!! in our region

SCO is future
 
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LOL, that is exactly what they tried to do. Haven't you read up about the Vietnam war?

Curtis LeMay, Chief of Staff of the United States Air Force, once famously said: "We're going to bomb them back to the stone age". The number of bombs they used was beyond belief.

And why didn't they do that to China in the 1950's, when we pushed American forces out of North Korea?

If even the sole superpower America, could be countered by third-world countries... then for India to assume an "easy victory" against Pakistan, is frankly laughable.

(Also, if you think guerrilla fighters are bad, then think about the fact that Pakistan has nuclear weapons... which are a thousand times worse.)


FYI the American politicians in 1950 lost there balls General Douglas MacArthur wanted to drop nukes along the 38th parallel and in Manchuria but he was replaced so consider yourselves lucky there are plenty of war hawks in the USA :lol:

Vietnam was another different story growing internal public pressure in the US during the 60's and 70's along with the fact that China and USSR fully supported the NVA and Viet cong with arms and supplies lets not forget all USA had to do was drop neutron bombs on NVA and Vietcong strong holds and that would have been a game changer once again U.S politicians lost their balls Nixon was another factor as well he removed US forces and then eventually Saigon fell

do not underestimate the USA they might not be able to get things done conventionally but unconventionally they can destroy the entire world if they wanted too :P
 
.
What matter is this


When ever our friends decide to talk about their recent purchases just remember this asset we have its called the Equalizer

This talk about conventional war, and conventional weapons do not do well -

What all nations need to look at is

a) Future is Russia - India - China - Pakistan - Iran - Middle east
b) If you want proxy war just look at what happened to Afghanistan and Iraq learn lessons from fighting
someone else's proxy wars


From a tactical point of view - India cannot sustain a three or four front war , and to be honest India really should look towards peace as oppose to starting new arms race in region

I think days of conventional war have ended - we live in world of 2 days war outcome

and sadly , due to the wind pattern in Sub continent any Nuclear fall out either side of border will ultimately destroy lands on either side

And I think , the wise man's view is resolve differences the talk of picking a fight with china is suicidal


Well in term of quantity vs quality perhaps what our Military head / analyst was trying to point was
look we will not sustain a 45 days war , the old conventional war if we are attacked it will be pretty stright forward quick path to mutual destruction

We can only sustain fight for 30 days , and likely Pakistan will use its Nuclear strike capabilities on a hostile nation

Des that points to a impotance in Indian forces , No , does it says the Indina airforce is useless No , what it points to is hard facts

a) World has changed - its not about who has more planes , or more frigates
b) Its about looking towards future

The current weapons trend will lead to chaos - and I think Mr Manmohan is right to persue a path of peace

Singling out China !!! is quite suicidal

An attack from Western front , and North , and East - plus possible second strike from Sea is not something India could handle , and frankly speaking is not really needed because most countries interested in SCO organization - should be really thinking about Trade and not a meaningless war


What Pakistani Minister stated is simple

"Don't expect us to be in long war, when we are attacked - we will go for a shortest path to victory"

And I think - the message is quite clear - inviting China - into mix just creates more headaches for India to be honest - I don't see why there even should be war in the region

While war may be a dream of a political nuckle head , who wants to attain votes perhaps reality is that the region just cannot afford to be thrown back to 1800 again


CHINA + Pakistan

Just too much to handle, who knows next time you turn around Srilanka or Bangladesh might also be on the other side

But it is tad bit bothersome why all of sudden India wants to start an arms race specially when its economy is doing well


At present India is going thru an Identity crisis
It does not know what to do

It has abandoned its close ally Russia , and its picking a fight with Russians best Ally China , and it already does not gets along with Pakistan who it cannot handle on its best days with out intervention from United Nations.



Air-force:
Virtual Tie - India has more planes but Pakistan has better missiles and 100 JF17 adds a punch
One could argue a small advantage in minor scrimmages but otherwise its a dead tie


Military:
India has better transport capabilities , helicopters and number of troops , Pakistan has tactical nukes it can fire from artillery so any troop advantage can be quickly done, India and Pakistan both have tanks , India has some special weapons (Smart bombs to take out bunch of tanks in one shot), but we have unlimited supply of baktar shiken, and hand held missiles. Same goes for helicopters does not matter if you have 2000 , if we have 10000 anza missiles the helicopters are toast. Plus its a known fact we own better artillery units, india still operates the age old stuff transported on trucks, the advantage India has is very minor


Missiles:
Dead tie , both nations have capability to cover each others full territory and any bases near by in other countries so its a dead tie , India has a better space program so they have slight advantage with that but that has no bearing on war , unless india setup a base on moon.


Navy:
Well untill recently india enjoyed a great advantage in this sector but with the arrival of Pakistani cruise missiles and , TOT of submarine and frigate technologies to Pakistan , Pakistan will have enough capability to hold its ground if not invade India , with the new ships arriving in Pakistan , and Submarines and missiles while India will hold an advantage with their aircraft carrier - but again , that is a trivial advantage because with one nuclear strike , all the planes on aircraft carrier would become "unoperational" and the aircraft carrier would be a sitting duck specially if the missile / aircraft was stealth, I would assume advantage india here but we have more trust in our NAVY and it will get stronger.


Finally the Stealth Strategic Assets:

We don't have it nor do india but even if India does gets Russian Stealth (thats if Russia trusts india specially after its snub in favor of USA) - Pakistan already is researching on its own stealth

Either way you look at it its just a virtual dead tie the situation is such that imagine if two ppl were arm wrestling and once they started there was just a tilt of just 10 degree to one side but after 1 hour nothing happened that is the situation with India and Pakistan.


Considering the above , if India decides to challenge China , I mean that is just suicidal the marginal numeric advantage that india had , nulllifies , and all sectors where it enjoyed an advantage now become "dis advantage" plus ...

now India has to protect 1000% more territory , diluting its defenses , because before they just watched
few 100 km now they have to protect 5000km plus region

Its just a political madness to really say China is India's enemy -

put very well i think its clear India could win a conventional war easily but a nuclear war would only screw both of us and the entire world India doesn't need an arms race a couple of days ago there was a thread posted on how India's "minimum credible deterrence" was perfectly fine but with the INS Arihant soon to enter service that could start an arms race
 
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This is hottest thing in world right now SCO and possibility of a free trade zone - a Major Economic Zone that could revolutionize prosperity for its members -

Members
Central Asian States
Russia
China
India
Pakistan
Iran

With arrival of Turkey or perhaps Middle east - the process could finally begin
 
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We can't match India militarily: Pak def min
This is his second statement after defence budget and their defence budget has already been increased 3 times this year...
 
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In quantity, India is far superior. However, Pakistan has a slight edge over India in quality.

Even if we discard all the tech spec comparisions...Pakistan has to maintain the quality edge period. It is the only edge Pakistan can ever get. I am pretty sure that there is some...but believe me when I say this that the slight edge gets totally compromised against an overwhelmingly large force...and if we try to debate on what the edge you are referring to might be..it would be alosing battle for you...if you compare armaments and weaponry...now training is something that is a little abstract and subjective...we cant really argue on that can we?
I do know that the temprament of the avg pakistani trooper is very conducive to the war environment...good jazba they possess.
you strategy makers have also erred a lot in past at critical moments in battle...
 
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