What's new

We asked a Military expert if all the worlds armies could conquer the UK.

Russia has not been able to threaten W.Europe except with ballistic missiles. It's strength comes from fighting on home turf where other armies have failed. Apart from that, it has almost no military technology that Europe can not outmatch..

Russia doesn't need to threaten anybody.
But yes it can and will reply with overwhelming force if it gets threatened by another country.
Please tell us about the capabilities where it has been out matched by Western Europe. What capabilities that you are talking about that Russia won't be able to neutralise in a realistic battle scenario.
Without the NATO umbrella there is no way Europe can withstand Russia.
As for single country, name occasions where Russia has been able to occupy France or Spain or the UK. It does not have the capability for that.

Russia doesn't need to occupy France, Spain or UK. You were talking about Western European capabilities. Last time I checked the best Western capabilities (of that time) were fielded by the Nazis and you know the result of that conflict.
 
. .
Nazis would have defeated the Soviet Union if thy weren't fighting a two front war.
Again this is fiction.
Tell me again when did Germany attacked the Soviet Union, and when did the D-Day invasion happened? Lets have a look at those dates again.

By the way are you happy about the northern route that we were discussing?

@Hashshāshīn
 
.
Again this is fiction.
Tell me again when did Germany attacked the Soviet Union, and when did the D-Day invasion happened? Lets have a look at those dates again.

By the way are you happy about the northern route that we were discussing?

@Hashshāshīn
Nazis had their forces in the West, in France, Scandinavia, Africa, in Balkans. If they concentrated them all on the East, they could have captured Moscow.

And no, as I said, even if RN is defeated, how will the land invasion begin? Russia will have to bring 100000s men on ships from 2000km away. Not possible.
 
. .
Nazis had their forces in the West, in France, Scandinavia, Africa, in Balkans. If they concentrated them all on the East, they could have captured Moscow.

Dude, you got to remember, the second world war was decided in the siege of Leningrad and in the battle of Stalingrad, the rest were side stories.
But if you insist we can have a look at the dates. Let me ask again when was Soviet Union attacked and when was the D-Day invasion? For comparison let's have a look at the dates.
And no, as I said, even if RN is defeated, how will the land invasion begin? Russia will have to bring 100000s men on ships from 2000km away. Not possible.

Why is it impossible, when the US can bring hundreds of thousands of military personnel to Japan,Korea and Vietnam on ships, and bring hundred thousand to Afghanistan by air. Why will it be impossible for Russia?
The Brits were able to run conveys when they were under constant threat from the German Navy, and here we are assuming a scenario where RN is completely out of picture and you are telling that the Russians cannot sustain a fighting force using the same sea lanes.
Tell me why is it impossible.
 
.
If the US had to go it alone without any support from any European country they simply would take over Iceland and make a Diego Garcia type base which would be heavily defended. From there they could launch bombers and any other aircraft at will. They'd then concentrate on trying to keep the RAF busy in the south of Britain by concentrating air attacks there. Then with the RAF tied up they'd try and gain a foothold in the north (or Northern Ireland) by both paratrooper and amphibious landing. They then would either take over a northern airport airstrip or simply build their own under heavy defenses. Once they did that it is pretty much game over.
 
.
Russia doesn't need to threaten anybody.
But yes it can and will reply with overwhelming force if it gets threatened by another country.
Please tell us about the capabilities where it has been out matched by Western Europe. What capabilities that you are talking about that Russia won't be able to neutralise in a realistic battle scenario.
Without the NATO umbrella there is no way Europe can withstand Russia.

Russia doesn't need to occupy France, Spain or UK. You were talking about Western European capabilities. Last time I checked the best Western capabilities (of that time) were fielded by the Nazis and you know the result of that conflict.

You overestimate Russia. This is not the USSR. There is a huge difference.
I have already acknowledged that attacking Russia is not an option, but this does not mean that Russia has the capability to occupy any other country.

If you want to live in the glory days of the Soviet Union, then can I remind you of what happened to them in Afghanistan? Consider the fact that CIS broke away despite the iron grip of the Kremlin.

As for Nazis, they made the same mistake as Napoleon and entered the winterland unprepared. That is all the advantage the Soviets had.

Your assertion that Russia can attack the UK is still baseless.

...
Why is it impossible, when the US can bring hundreds of thousands of military personnel to Japan,Korea and Vietnam on ships, and bring hundred thousand to Afghanistan by air. Why will it be impossible for Russia?

One impossibility is called Money, and Russia's lack of it.
 
.
Here it's a speculative topic we are discussing. That is what countries have the capability to attack and conquer Britain. And the answer boils down to two. US and Russia. Your mate @Hashshāshīn suggested they won't be able as they would have to go through Poland, Germany and France to get to Britain. Which I countered by reminding about the northern route. He replied about RN, to which I reminded that as Britain is an island RN will be a factor no matter what direction you come from.
Then you jumped in talking about the Western European tech, and I asked you what specific tech you are talking about ( to which I still haven't received an answer from you).

You overestimate Russia. This is not the USSR. There is a huge difference.
I have already acknowledged that attacking Russia is not an option, but this does not mean that Russia has the capability to occupy any other country.

I told you before Russia is not interested in conquering other countries. But if it was threatened and wanted to attack Britain especially the way OP is suggesting, then yes the northern route is feasible for Russia and yes it does have the capability to do so. It has the manpower, air and sea assets to accomplish such an endeavor.
If you want to live in the glory days of the Soviet Union, then can I remind you of what happened to them in Afghanistan? Consider the fact that CIS broke away despite the iron grip of the Kremlin.

I am not here talking about the glory days of SU. But just to answer you, remember what happened to the US in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. It didn't stop them from being a superpower.
As for Nazis, they made the same mistake as Napoleon and entered the winterland unprepared. That is all the advantage the Soviets had.

Really man, are you that dumb to think the weather was 'all the advantage' that the Soviets had? Did you forget about the millions who died defending their motherland? They were not just throwing stones at the Germans and waiting for winter to sit in.No, the reality is they were fighting with guns, tanks, air and sea assets. Things are not as one-dimensional in the real world, the way you make it out in here.

Your assertion that Russia can attack the UK is still baseless.
One impossibility is called Money, and Russia's lack of it.

Russia has plenty of money, on top of that they have tremendous reserves of oil, gas, timber, Uranium, Gold and other resources. They make their own fighters, bombers, artillery, tanks, ships, submarines, rifles and ammunition. Tell us what are the lacking?
 
.
...
I told you before Russia is not interested in conquering other countries. But if it was threatened and wanted to attack Britain especially the way OP is suggesting, then yes the northern route is feasible for Russia and yes it does have the capability to do so. It has the manpower, air and sea assets to accomplish such an endeavor.

I am not here talking about the glory days of SU. But just to answer you, remember what happened to the US in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. It didn't stop them from being a superpower.

Really man, are you that dumb to think the weather was 'all the advantage' that the Soviets had? Did you forget about the millions who died defending their motherland? They were not just throwing stones at the Germans and waiting for winter to sit in.No, the reality is they were fighting with guns, tanks, air and sea assets. Things are not as one-dimensional in the real world, the way you make it out in here.

Russia has plenty of money, on top of that they have tremendous reserves of oil, gas, timber, Uranium, Gold and other resources. They make their own fighters, bombers, artillery, tanks, ships, submarines, rifles and ammunition. Tell us what are the lacking?

Seems you are still stuck in the 1930s. Look at the bolded parts and think again.

1- The US has been defeated, but only on foreign soil, NEVER on the mainland. On the other hand, the USSR has been broken up completely and is now only part of history.

2- Waiting for winter has always been part of their strategy even when they fell back against Hitler. That was the whole point; to wait him out.

3- Wrong on the third count as well. A war with a major power like the UK would brankupt it (again).

4- Manufacturing military hardware is not the same as being able to put troops on foreign soil for an invasion. Crimea does not count btw.

5- This is the final reply you will get from me unless you can start to realize that is is not the pre-WW2 era.


~ RazorMC
 
.
Seems you are still stuck in the 1930s. Look at the bolded parts and think again.

I am not stuck on anything. You came up with the idea of superior Western European capabilities, this is the third time I am asking name those capabilities. What are you afraid of. It's only a discussion.
1- The US has been defeated, but only on foreign soil, NEVER on the mainland. On the other hand, the USSR has been broken up completely and is now only part of history.

I know USSR is gone and that US hasn't been defeated on US soil since it's independence (if thats what you mean by mainland). Remember USSR wasn't defeated it voluntarily decided to dissolve itself.
2- Waiting for winter has always been part of their strategy even when they fell back against Hitler. That was the whole point; to wait him out.

Winter was winter for everyone. It was as cold for a Russian as it was for a German.
Germany wasn't defeated by the winter it was defeated by the technology and sacrifices of the Russian people. You do know that it wasn't a war that ended in one year with one winter?
3- Wrong on the third count as well. A war with a major power like the UK would brankupt it (again).

Inform us what would Russia spend on that will bankrupt it, if it were to attack Britain? (remember it's a stand alone scenario we are talking about). You haven't provided any figures, parroting one line doesn't make you an expert.
4- Manufacturing military hardware is not the same as being able to put troops on foreign soil for an invasion. Crimea does not count btw.

Well dude, we are talking about a speculative scenario, and looking at the Russia capabilities it is well within their reach to pull it off (if it were a one on one contest). But in today's world with all the nuclear weapons and alliances, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. So sleep easy the Russians are not coming.
5- This is the final reply you will get from me unless you can start to realize that is is not the pre-WW2 era.

Sorry to disappoint you, probably you are too used to arguing kids and not used to the real world. My apologies if I have burst your bubble.

Ciao
 
.
We Asked a Military Expert How to Conquer the UK | VICE United Kingdom

Back in October, I asked a military expert if a combined Rest-of-the-World army could conquer the United States of America. It was a question that sprung from nothing other than curiosity but a lot of patriotic Yanks seemed to assume that I was genuinely putting in calls to top international generals to "see if this thing is doable". I was met with a flood of abuse, most of it outlining the physical punishment I could expect to receive if I ever set foot in Podunk, Idaho or Halliburton, Texas. My favourite was a Twitter account called ButthurtBrit, which was set up just to abuse me. Their best tweet was:

Good work, lads! The thing is, they were all entirely correct – I really was hoping to get a bunch of countries together so that we could attempt to conquer the United States. But once I found out how awesome America’s military might is (clue: very awesome), I began to feel even more depressed about being British than I usually do.

So, with a century of British military decline looming over me, I got in touch with Ian Keddie, IHS Jane's Western Europe Armed Forces Analyst, to ask if there was any other country in the world that couldn’t bomb Britain back to the Stone Age.

VICE: Right, let’s find out how rubbish Britain is at the fighting these days. What is the UK's nuclear capability like and how could it be disarmed?
Ian Keddie:
The UK has operated a continuous at sea nuclear deterrent since 1968, its sole nuclear weapon since the retirement of the UK’s tactical weapons in 1998. This is currently a Vanguard-class submarine armed with up to 16 Trident ballistic missiles, each capable of carrying up to 12 100-kiloton warheads.

How much is 100 kilotons?
Well Little Boy, the weapon used on Hiroshima, was a 16-kiloton weapon. In reality though, we are limited to carrying up to 40 warheads between 8 missiles.

That still sounds like quite a lot. Could we just fire them whenever we want?
The UK relies on US technology to maintain and build the missiles and warheads but the UK can still choose if, when, or where to fire them. This means that to disable the UK’s weapons, the US could cut off support for them but it would take at least a couple of decades for that to completely erode. Your other alternative would be to try to destroy the submarines that carry the missiles, although they are virtually undetectable once at sea and in deep water, hence why two British and French SSBNs (Ballistic Missile Submarines) collided in 2009.

You could attack the three boats that aren’t at sea and are under maintenance in HMNB Clyde, or Faslane. You'd need the capability to launch a cruise missile or penetrate the UK’s air defence with your jets. Maybe Special Forces could manage this but there are several hundred Royal Marines based at Faslane tasked “to provide military support to undertake final denial of access to nuclear weapons”.

Alright. What if someone did manage to defeat 700 desperate marines?
Even with the other three boats disabled you could face retaliation from the remaining submarine while it's hidden for a few months. In order to completely remove the British deterrent you'd need to therefore find and destroy the SSBN currently on patrol, meaning you have a better anti-submarine capability than Cold War Russia, and simultaneously carry out the most audacious surprise attack since Pearl Harbour.

Okay, that’s harder than I thought, but doable. Where would you begin an invasion of Britain? Are there any military bases overseas that are worth taking out?
If we take the nuclear deterrent out of the question and you have a military with the capability to reach and invade the UK, you still need to overcome some serious hurdles. Initially, your problem will be gaining air superiority, to do this you would need to defeat a force of over 200 combat aircraft and unless you are the USA you’ve got to base most of your own aircraft relatively close to the British Isles until you can capture airfields of your own. Attacking from the North would let you base yourself in Iceland, Norway, or the Faroe Isles. From there, you might be able to overcome the Tornados and Typhoons at RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Leuchars to effectively gain control over most of Scotland.

Wouldn't Scotland put up a fight?
Scotland is much less populated than England. This would reduce the threat to the invading forces and the burden of controlling the local population. It would give the UK time to regroup and prepare a counterattack with most of its forces intact but with the momentum on your side and a foothold in the country, you could reinforce your own position at the numerous airfields in Scotland in order to make a push South. The only place to consider attacking abroad would be Gibraltar but only if you needed to use the Mediterranean for your own ship movement...

I guess a Falklands detour wouldn’t make sense either, unless you’re Argentine. Britannia used to rule the waves, but I get the feeling she doesn't any more. How easy would it be to destroy the British navy?
Today, the Royal Navy is in the middle of a considerable transformation and is certainly a lot smaller than it used to be. Versus another navy, the biggest weakness it would have at the moment would be the lack of an aircraft carrier, a problem the UK will have to face until at least 2020 when both the ship and new F-35 jets are operational. The navy still has 13 frigates, six destroyers and seven nuclear attack submarines. The destroyers are designed for air defence and are amongst the most advanced in the world… To defeat the Royal Navy you would need to engage it with an equally advanced navy or with a considerably larger force, something not a great deal of countries have. Those that do could not realistically deploy a significant number or ships halfway around the world.

Who are we talking about here?
Britain’s geography has always been the country’s biggest advantage and is still a significant hurdle in the 21st century. It means that there will always be a need to gain air and sea superiority before movement of any invasion force can take place. The requirements for carrying out a successful invasion are pretty substantial, which makes the list of realistic threats to Britain quite small. The bigger military powers are an obvious contender to begin with; the USA and Russia have certainly got the manpower and capability to carry it out but China, for example, doesn’t yet have a global reach and couldn’t support enough troops and aircraft that far from home to make it viable without support. Britain’s biggest defence is ultimately the alliances it is part of…

This is important because, really, old wounds never heal: Could France successfully invade the UK?
France is extremely comparable to the UK in terms of capability; the militaries have similar numbers of troops, tanks, ships and aircraft. In this instance, I would say that the advantage is with the defender; an amphibious assault is extremely difficult to pull off without massive casualties and jets would face a combined threat of enemy aircraft and surface-to-air weapons, so it's unlikely they could muster the numbers needed to pull this off without leaving France completely undefended.

Take that, cheese-eating surrender monkeys! How much help would Britain need in order to defend itself from a military superpower like the US?
If we don’t factor in the nuclear deterrent then the UK would need a huge amount of support to tackle the US. America could deploy several of their aircraft carriers to deliver over 100 F-18s each. If they capture any airfields within range of Britain they could base huge numbers of planes there extremely quickly and the US Air Force has strategic bombers that could easily reach across the Atlantic. The entire EU combined might have a fighting chance if there was a cohesive response but the US military would certainly be able to act together more efficiently. The economies of the USA versus the EU are almost matched in terms of size so it is an interesting scenario to consider. The military capability of the US is on a scale unlike anyone else, Russia and China have the next two largest air forces but they have half the number of combat aircraft that America does.

Okay, time for a classic British fallback: the past. Let's wind the clock back to the glory days of empire, when an Englishman could get off the boat in Bombay and find a G&T waiting for him at the local gentlemen's club. Could the might of the British Empire in its heyday compete with the US today?
Again, even with the assets of all Commonwealth countries, the combined militaries would struggle to equal the USA. The disposition of the countries would make it a different challenge compared with the European scenario: Canada would be "annexed" in a matter of days, effectively making North America a fortress. From there, the US Navy could cut off Australia and New Zealand with relative ease, two or three Nimitz-class aircraft carriers could field enough aircraft to defeat their air force and remove them from the war, no invasion necessary. India would be a significant challenge, as would Pakistan and the UK, especially the submarine fleets of the three countries if the US decided to invade by sea. But the initiative would probably be with the USA as their military has the organisation and logistical skills to carry this out whilst the existing countries would be too disjointed to put up a cooperative response.

If your “New British Commonwealth” – shall we say NBC for short? – was administered well by those gin-sipping bureaucrats and the military was a single cohesive entity then it would be a close thing. The NBC would be the world’s second superpower and the second largest economy, extensively nuclear armed and with a population in excess of 2.2 billion across 53 states. The military of an NBC would certainly rival the USA and would probably have an even larger navy in order to keep all of those colonies in check. Individually, though, none of these countries would pose a real threat to the US outside of their nuclear arsenals.

I’m most disappointed in Canada; I really thought the Mounties would give us the edge. Okay, let's say an invading army has taken the UK from us. Where should we hide out and wage guerrilla war?
With the dust settled and the bulk of the military defeated, an occupying army has taken over mainland Britain. Resistance groups would be most successful by operating in the remote parts of the country or remaining in the most urban areas. It’s likely that an invading force would want to leave London as intact as possible because it features the bulk of the administrative and economic centres of the country. So carrying out an insurgency inside the capital would be pretty effective and gives you a huge, and diverse, population to hide amongst. Attacks on targets of opportunity or infrastructure could cause serious disruption at a small cost to the guerrillas.

The alternative would be to head away from the population centres. Whilst the UK as a whole is pretty densely populated, Scotland is actually incredibly sparse, especially away from the central belt. From a remote base in the Highlands it would be possible to build up a store of weapons, possibly smuggled in from mainland Europe or Ireland, and still be within striking distance for attacks on enemy forces. It depends on your ultimate aim but the general concept would be to make it too costly for the invader either politically or economically. Why are they holding the country; is it for resources, territory, strategic location, or ideological reasons? A base in the Highlands could give you an opportunity to attack the North Sea oil facilities, a key resource. Attacking fresh water reservoirs would be a major blow to an occupier’s logistics and power generation facilities would also be a suitable target.

Great, through a combination of Braveheart-style rural ambushes and post-apocalyptic urban sabotage, the spirit of the Britons will live on. Thank you Ian, this has been less depressing than I imagined.

well who would like to go on to the corner of the world to this island with no oil ?

Yes, France or Germany should though..
 
.
This scenario reminds me of the 1946 invasion plan of mainland Japan. Before troops can land, the battle will be fought over the air to control the sky to secure amphibitious troops to land. The attacking force has to clear all of the U.K jets AND ground to air missiles. Even when the sky is clear, the amphibituous troops will face submarine attacks, land-based anti-ship missile batteries, and sea mines. Does the U.K have midget submarines? An armada of 1000 midget submarines and U.K's nuclear-powered subs will have to be destroyed before landing can proceed.
 
.
TV Show boss to a Canadian comedian: You are going to perform to US Marines in Iraq for special Christmas program.
Comedian: Why not perform to the Canadian troops.
Boss: That guy is busy.
Ha ha nice one from Peters ?
 
. .

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom