We are leaving the Pakistanis with an enormous mess | US Professor Dr Michael Scheuer

[humanfirst]

US leaving pakistanis in mess..?From my experience in this forum most pakistanis wanted US to leave afghanistan and afghan taliban to take over..Every time they were told about the mess they would be in they would brush it off as it is only the evil USA/INDIA/ISRAEL formenting troubles from eastern border and it would all be milk and honey once afghan taliban takes over..

 

[Zarvan]

Yes they are leaving with us with great mess so we better talk to our own people and win as many TTP groups on our side as we can because the moment USA troops leave or 80 to 90 % leave the provinces along with our border with will be taken over by Afghan Taliban and if we are still fighting against our own Tribals they could be last nail in our coffin so we better talk to win most groups on our side and than taken out those who still insist on fighting @Aeronaut

 

[Developereo]

You don't like to be 100 obvious that you are a purveyor of make-believe.

No, I don't want to rehash the debates we have had over the years. If you perceive that as some sort of "victory", then so be it. Readers can consult previous thread on Israel/Palestine for details.

Who is a hardcore hawk Zionist? Me? The guy who supports peaceful coexistence and universal human rights?

A hardcore Zionist would be one who wants to preserve the purity of the Jewish race by advocating sterilization of Arabs, or forcing Chinese workers in Israel to sign "no sex" contracts, or forming vigilante squads to seek out "Jewish girl, Arab boy" couples.

Broadly speaking, a hardcore Zionist is anyone who believes that Jews have an inherent "right" to live in that land (quite apart from any legal documents) and such a "right" includes any and all means to maintain a Jewish majority in the land, including expulsion of non-Jews.

Fundamentally, there is no difference between Zionism and any other supremacist ideology. The only actual difference is that Zionists are far more adept at propaganda than are most other supremacists.

Why in the world should readers consider you an authority on the Jewish religion, especially what Jews currently consider the rights and duties of other Jews to be? Shouldn't they consult with Jews for that?

It is not I who is claiming these things, but Jews themselves -- including ultra-orthodox Hassidic Jews and Holocaust survivors -- who have listened to their conscience and rejected the Zionist propaganda.

After all, if I went around here baselessly blathering about how a Muslim should conduct himself according to his religion, I'd be laughed off the forum.

Nowhere am I suggesting how a Jew "should conduct himself".

My only observation is that Zionism contradicts both liberalism and the principles of good behavior which form a part of Judaism, as they do in most religions.

P.S. Rest assured that your not-so-subtle attempt to portray criticism of Zionists as criticism of Jews (implicitly equating Zionism to Judaism) is rather transparent. Just because I am playing along here does not mean that I accept your equation.

 

[Solomon2]

My only observation is that Zionism contradicts both liberalism and the principles of good behavior which form a part of Judaism, as they do in most religions.

It isn't your "observation"; you couldn't even cough up a quote. It's the unshakable conviction of a closed-minded person who ignores the evidence and confuses outlier opinion with mainstream practice - as anyone who visits Israel can see for themselves. It's necessary to maintain the falsehood of anti-Zionism as the moral high ground, yet it also promotes the mindset of messed-up logic that plays a role in Pakistan's troubles today. It's yet another suggestion that the sooner Pakistanis become Zionist advocates, the better off their country will be.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

[quote="Solomon2, post: 5363895, member: 12445"as anyone who visits Israel can see for themselves. [/quote]
... that Israel is not the problem
but is the Jewish American lobby that has its foot on the American conscious where even complaining is equated to anti Semitism

some say, if you want to be any less of a Jew that is normally shoved down your throat in America, you must go and visit Israel.

 

[SrNair]

I do not hate India or Indians. On a individual level we can interact and be friends but on state to state level as i have mentioned before there is too much mistrust between us. I don't know when India got involved in Afghanistan but Afghanistan has always been anti Pakistan.
You just mentioned India's base in Tajikistan. I am just saying even India is being used by USA to counter Chinese influence otherwise what business does India have in Tajikistan?
USA will maintain CIA bases and some of its troops, its not fully withdrawing from Afghanistan. USA is not leaving this region. Afghanistan war gave USA great chance to grab resources in Central Asia & undiscovered oil and gas in Balochistan and Sindh.

Agree.India may not involved in Afghanistan if there is no 1999 hijack.Because Taliban is used by Pakistan for anti India action.At that time we are totally helpless and we dont have any support from Afghanistan.So history change like this.
When India signed the nuke deal with US.They also done a mind calculation to turn India against China.But so far it is not successful.We develop our defence only in our terms not US terms and US seems lot of frustrated about India.From trade to drug patents and weapons purchasing to diplomatic incident we stand against US.Something that their EU allies cant do.We also not allow our soil for US .After India and it people and GoI know US diplomacy in 1971.

US Afghanistan war is a well written war scripts. @OrionHunter explain it in his #18 post.
So far US rule this world by selling their "American Dreams" to outside world.But rise of China ,more in economy and less ,but better in militarily create a lot of concern to US.Afghanistan is a strategic location .surrounded by Iran ,China,Pakistan ,Central Asia and India.In this Central Asia will become a major energy supplier in future.China and India will be their primary customers.Iran role as a energy provider and powerful player in middle east.All these three countries will not allow US to interfere in their matters.China and Iran is completely against US and India will not accept US demands in its foreign policy .Sometimes in some matters India and US is in opposite sides also.So they only got a Pakistan,the drag Pakistan in to their
dirtywork by giving aids and bribes to your leaders.
Emerging countries can challenge US .So if they get their portion in the Afghanistan they can regulate energy supply to India and China and also can counter Iran rise as a energy and security provider in these region.TAPI pipeline is that chapter in US scripts .But it seems it also dont work as well.India is now try to construct an underwater gas pipeline between India and Iran

 

[Developereo]

It isn't your "observation"; you couldn't even cough up a quote.

Oh, puhleez!

I have provided these links before, but here are a couple of Jewish sites...

Our Mission | True Torah Jews

"Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism"

Difference between Judaism and Zionism
"If one is a good Jew, one cannot be a Zionist; if one is a Zionist, one cannot be a good Jew."

 

[darkinsky]

Oh, puhleez!

I have provided these links before, but here are a couple of Jewish sites...

Our Mission | True Torah Jews

"Zionism is totally contrary to the teachings of traditional Judaism"

Difference between Judaism and Zionism
"If one is a good Jew, one cannot be a Zionist; if one is a Zionist, one cannot be a good Jew."

solomon2 is behaving like a salty

 

[Jaanbaz]

Agree.India may not involved in Afghanistan if there is no 1999 hijack.Because Taliban is used by Pakistan for anti India action.At that time we are totally helpless and we dont have any support from Afghanistan.So history change like this.
When India signed the nuke deal with US.They also done a mind calculation to turn India against China.But so far it is not successful.We develop our defence only in our terms not US terms and US seems lot of frustrated about India.From trade to drug patents and weapons purchasing to diplomatic incident we stand against US.Something that their EU allies cant do.We also not allow our soil for US .After India and it people and GoI know US diplomacy in 1971.

US Afghanistan war is a well written war scripts. @OrionHunter explain it in his #18 post.
So far US rule this world by selling their "American Dreams" to outside world.But rise of China ,more in economy and less ,but better in militarily create a lot of concern to US.Afghanistan is a strategic location .surrounded by Iran ,China,Pakistan ,Central Asia and India.In this Central Asia will become a major energy supplier in future.China and India will be their primary customers.Iran role as a energy provider and powerful player in middle east.All these three countries will not allow US to interfere in their matters.China and Iran is completely against US and India will not accept US demands in its foreign policy .Sometimes in some matters India and US is in opposite sides also.So they only got a Pakistan,the drag Pakistan in to their
dirtywork by giving aids and bribes to your leaders.
Emerging countries can challenge US .So if they get their portion in the Afghanistan they can regulate energy supply to India and China and also can counter Iran rise as a energy and security provider in these region.TAPI pipeline is that chapter in US scripts .But it seems it also dont work as well.India is now try to construct an underwater gas pipeline between India and Iran

I agree with your points. Pakistan's Gwador Port will play a major role mainly for China. Pakistan also have two ports at Karachi which is also vital for China.

 

[sherin616]

its not about usa all british decenent are trying it spliting of soviet union,india-pakistan,vietnam,korea, when ever a nation split there will be a hand of british decenent devide and its not about usa all british decenent are trying it spliting of soviet union,india-pakistan,vietnam,korea, when ever a nation split there will be a hand of british decenent devide and its not about usa all british decenent are trying it spliting of soviet union,india-pakistan,vietnam,korea, when ever a nation split there will be a hand of british decenent devide and its not about usa all british decenent are trying it spliting of soviet union,india-pakistan,vietnam,korea, when ever a nation split there will be a hand of british decenent devide and conqure

 

[Kompromat]

Solomon2 has been banned from this debate for derailment despite warnings.

 

[That Guy]

He's absolutely correct. I may not always agree with the results of his analyses, but there is no denying facts.

 

[Professionaly Immured]

Biggest mess for Pakistan is the messed up mindset

rest assured will be Taken care of...

 

[TOPGUN]

And the man has spoken , enough said mess it is that we have to clean up thanks US.

 

[Jazzbot]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=445601232240215

It already happened to us back in 80-90's, but we never learned? History is gonna repeat itself again.

@Aeronaut @Irfan Baloch @Developereo @Jaanbaz @TOPGUN