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We Are All Harappans

jungle savages before our ancestors (Aryans) civilized you. But still no need to steal our history for your own.
There is no Aryans dummy. It's not a race. Your ancestors are Aryans? :lol:

Call them Central Asians or people from the Eurasian steppe.

Why can't we agree that IVC is our shared history. There are more sites being found in India as we speak. Why are you guys so insecure about IVC being a shared history?
Because they don't have anything. Be it as a contribution to ancient Philosophy, astronomy, mathematics, medicine, chemistry etc... (From Panini, lallacharya, Aryabhatta, Bhaskara, and so on given they are associated with Hindu). So, claiming IVC is their best bet. A civilization yet to be deciphered and whose largest excavations are in today's India. Also, given their history of defacing statues, who knows, many may have been lost.
 
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It is what we call glory hunters.

The people of the land with solid lineage to it , culturally, ethnically, linguistically, are THE custodians of the land and it's history. No OUTSIDER can claim it. We are the Indus and Indus is us.

Ghanta solid lineage
Ghanta culturally, ethnically, linguistically,

Owning Istanbul doesn't give the right to Turkey to claim its heritage culture,
Heritage/culture of Constantinople is inherited by the Vatican,

Indic setting up first Kung Fu temple does not give right to India to claim its heritage,
Its Chinese who have taken it forward

Culture is not a tangible thing like land or a piece of stone which can be captured,

People will never go to Pakistan to learn Vedas (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
People will never go to Pakistan to learn Yoga (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
Researchers on Sanskrit will never go to Pakistan (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India

Pakistan only owns the land, but the culture is inherited by Indians
People who worship Invader who looted their land, Killed their ancestors have not right to give lecture on lineage
 
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Ghanta solid lineage
Ghanta culturally, ethnically, linguistically,

Owning Istanbul doesn't give the right to Turkey to claim its heritage culture,
Heritage/culture of Constantinople is inherited by the Vatican,

Indic setting up first Kung Fu temple does not give right to India to claim its heritage,
Its Chinese who have taken it forward

Culture is not a tangible thing like land or a piece of stone which can be captured,

People will never go to Pakistan to learn Vedas (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
People will never go to Pakistan to learn Yoga (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
Researchers on Sanskrit will never go to Pakistan (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India

Pakistan only owns the land, but the culture is inherited by Indians
People who worship Invader who looted their land, Killed their ancestors have not right to give lineage

thankgod we have no right over culture that promotes penis worship where rape is a religious duty where drinking cup of urine a day is an obligation and where terrorists are elected as PM!

fk that chotia culture!
 
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Sounds quite backwards.

LMAO no it wasn't, he routinely slaughtered Brahmins who opposed him and took them as slaves. It was only the ones that co-operated that got spared, and those ones have nothing to do with you, most of them would have Muslim descendants today.

Hahaha, now I've heard it all. Each caste had a sizeable number of people convert to Islam and intermarry with people who migrated to the region during the Islamic era. There is no evidence for the crap you are saying, in fact, there is plenty against it. We have so many Muslim Rajputs today that are living proof against your claim.



By that logic, pretty much all history in South Asia belongs to everyone, from Afghanistan to Bangladesh, because we all have ASI admixture in us. I want you to process how that sounds, because it means:

Pakistanis can claim the Marathas

Hindustanis can claim the Durranis

Bangladeshis can claim the Sikh Empire

Do I really need to go on?

They were not even able to put jizya on us and you are talking about killing lol.

Look at kashmir, loom at maharashtra. Those who tried to kill us got their race massacred and land destroyed to no point of return.

Why ? Brahmahatya, God protects us.

And there are no brahmin converts today, all are dalits now or fake larpers.

Ghanta solid lineage
Ghanta culturally, ethnically, linguistically,

Owning Istanbul doesn't give the right to Turkey to claim its heritage culture,
Heritage/culture of Constantinople is inherited by the Vatican,

Indic setting up first Kung Fu temple does not give right to India to claim its heritage,
Its Chinese who have taken it forward

Culture is not a tangible thing like land or a piece of stone which can be captured,

People will never go to Pakistan to learn Vedas (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
People will never go to Pakistan to learn Yoga (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
Researchers on Sanskrit will never go to Pakistan (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India

Pakistan only owns the land, but the culture is inherited by Indians
People who worship Invader who looted their land, Killed their ancestors have not right to give lineage

VeDas were writtenby 6 brahmin clans, dalits and converted dalits have no claim over our heritage
 
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Any evidence that a major movement of ASI people from Indus Valley Civilisation further into Hindustan occurred?

Sure, this specific mixed marker is outside the region of the area of the Indus. So the mixture happened at the border regions and moved eastwards. No different to the ANI markers moving east wards.
 
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We Are All Harappans
The Rakhigarhi project shines light on an old enigma: the Harappans were genetically ‘Ancestral South Indian’ stock. Which is to say, all of us in South Asia are their children.

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Just three-and-a-half hours due northwest of Delhi, the GPS takes you unerringly to ancient India. Not a mythic world, but one made of bricks dried in an age-old sun. It’s a part of Haryana that can pass, at one glance, for Assam: the wet green of paddy stretches to the flat, misty horizons. Some spans of time are as endless—it boggles the mind, for instance, to think that the duration between the early onset of civilisation and its decline in these parts is longer than what separates us now from Harappa.

Or shall we say, Rakhigarhi.


Yes, the shift in centre of gravity is as fundamental as that. The Harappan site at Rakhigarhi, in Hisar district, is the biggest one known yet—at up to 550 hectares, it’s more than twice the size of Mohenjodaro. It’s also the one with the deepest time-scale, taking shape at 5500 BC and running for four continuous millennia. The nearby satellite site of Bhirrana, part of this Bronze Age metropolitan network, is even older: it offers the classic arc of evolution, beginning from early Neolithic farming around 7500 BC. Almost 10 millennia ago. Even with India’s endless capacity for imagining deep time, that’s serious depth. On the edge of modern Rakhigarhi village, buffaloes amble out of a pond placidly, unmindful of passing archaeologists or of the runic mysteries glimmering under the undulating mounds.

“The Rakhigarhi samples have a significant amount of ‘Iranian farmer’ ancestry. You won’t find this DNA in the north Indian population today, but only in south Indians,” says Niraj Rai.


Decades ago, Wazir Chand would come to these mounds as a dreamy little boy tending to his buffaloes. He started picking up pieces of terracotta bangles, shards of pottery, little bric-a-brac…

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The Rakhigarhi kaleidoscope has been throwing up very interesting patterns of late. Prof Vasant Shivram Shinde, senior archaeologist and vice-chancellor of Deccan College, Pune, is at the centre of action. In February, his years of studying the Rakhigarhi people’s burial practices became the basis of a definitive article published in a Public Library of Science journal. For that, altogether 37 burials from the necropolis area of Rakhigarhi—one of the few Harappan sites where a well-defined cemetery area has been discovered—were subjected to an examination along standard anthropological lines.

And now, he is the vital node for two forthcoming papers that may become dramatic, if contentious, landmarks in Harappan studies. The first steps ever by genetic science into the Harappan space, both studies are based on DNA samples taken from those same burials at Rakhigarhi.




    • In one, South Korean genetic scientists are trying to reconstruct, for the first time ever, what the Harappans looked like. Expect a Harappan face, or a DNA artist’s impression of it, to be hitting the internet soon.



    • The other paper, authored by Niraj Rai, head of the Ancient DNA lab at Lucknow’s Birbal Sahni Institute for Palaeosciences, and co-authored by Harvard geneticist Vagheesh Narasimhan et al, maps the genetic ancestry of the Harappans for the first time ever.
The latter report is due out within a month. Its findings, core elements of which were revealed to Outlook, have all the potential to start a feeding frenzy. The Indus Valley Civilisation, even as an inscrutable self-image, taps deep into the modern Indian imagination. In recent years, it's become a hypersensitive field, riven with claims and counter-claims flying at each other like arrows in a mythological serial. Expect garden variety ideologues and enthusiasts to be going at each other and at bonafide historians, archaeologists and geneticists on Twitter till the much-in-vogue cows come home. (Home? Whose home?)

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So Who Were the Harappans?

The answers are now clear. “The sample we are getting is very local,” says Rai, who did the basic work. “We aren’t getting any Central Asian gene flow in Rakhigarhi. Comparing Rakhigarhi with data from modern Indian populations, we have concluded that they have more of an affinity with the Ancestral South Indian tribal population compared to the north Indian population.”



This March, one of the biggest studies on the Central and South Asian population’s genetic ancestry confirmed what is known in politicised terms as the “Aryan migration”.
‘Ancestral South Indian’. The phrase brims with potent cultural overtones, while claiming the startling force of a ‘scientific truth’. Even if, used in this context, it only confirms commonsense notions about the Harappan and Rigvedic cultures being two distinct lines, one replacing or overlaying the other, with elements of both rupture and continuity—and gradual mixing.

The Harappan people didn’t vanish into thin air. Over centuries of being unable to sustain their cities due to growing aridity, as Shinde explains, they “went rural” (see interview). Went back to living a more primary economy. And migrated. And mixed. Their knowledge systems too went into hibernation, Shinde believes, only to resurface in the Indian cultural gene whenever the circumstances became more conducive.

“We still build the same way. Even our bricks are in the ratio they invented—1:2:4 in depth, width and length—even if the size is smaller,” says Dinesh Sheoran, Shinde’s pointsman in Rakhigarhi. He picks up a stray Harappan brick lying atop a kuchha village wall: it's bigger and in good health. No wonder even the British used them, in the 19th century, for railway lines!

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But before asking whether the Harappans indeed live on among us—or which interpretive filter to use while trying to read (and write) history—there are two more stark facts in the genetic data. One comes from the forthcoming paper. “The Rakhigarhi samples have a significant amount of ‘Iranian farmer’ ancestry,” says Rai. “In India’s present-day population, only the south Indians have Iranian farmer ancestry. You won’t find Iranian farmer DNA in the north Indian population.”

Iranian farmer? Yes, this nomenclature owes to studies of early Neolithic farming in the Zagros mountains of Iran—one of the sites in the Fertile Crescent where humanity is said to have first farmed and domesticated animals. At least that’s what the scholarly consensus seems to be. An eastward expansion is then cited as having brought farming and animal domestication to the Indian subcontinent. Along with the people who brought them—a ‘demic’ flow, as they call it—and then proceeded to interbreed with local hunter-gatherer populations to produce the ‘Ancestral South Indian’ type. Of which the Harappans are an instance.

But couldn’t farming have evolved in India—or elsewhere outside the Fertile Crescent—independently? Perhaps. And goats domesticated? Again, yes…even the last big study on Indian goats suggests a story more complex than it happening at Zagros and then spiralling out. But the present study accepts that model: essentially, that the story of ‘civilisation’ began in the Fertile Crescent and spread east. “The first mixing happened around 6000-5000 BC. As the Neolithic (period) started, the Northwest Indian mixed significantly with Iranian farmers,” says Rai.

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And then: “Central Asian mixing happened only when the Indus Valley collapsed.”

Central Asian mixing? That’s the ‘Aryan’ stuff, and genetic data clearly shows it happened—around or after the cusp offered by the decline of Harappan cultures. In a sense, for all the flux offered in between by highly politicised readings, and all the apprehensions about what modern DNA analysis would show, genetic studies are confirming the basic elements of an ‘Aryan’ migration theory. The key takeaway is that earlier mixing seems to have given us the ‘Ancestral South Indian’ (ASI)—with an ‘Iranian farmer’ component as part of it. And ‘ASI’ later mixed with incoming pastoral people from the Central Asian Steppe, giving us the ‘Ancestral North Indian’ (ANI). ANI is simply ASI + Steppe DNA

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The ‘Indo-Aryan’ Debate

By now, the racist overtones sloshing around everywhere simply have to be acknowledged and managed. ‘Aryan’ is a word and concept that played a central role in modern political history. It’s not just Nazi Germany. In 1935, responding to the new cachet the word had acquired, Persia offered itself as ‘Iran’ to the world, as a nod to their 'Aryan' ancestry. In India, the word already had prestige: the 19th century revivalist/reform stream already saw us an 'Arya Samaj' (Aryan Society). And politics in the last three decades has gone along a path that insists Vedic culture came out of a local, native, autochthonous strand—that is, born out of India’s womb—when everything in historical linguistics and archaeology has always strongly suggested the opposite. And now, genetics adds its ballast to what linguistics always knew and archaeology had corroborated.

One of the major advances here came in the spring of 2018. This March, 92 top scientists and researchers from around the world (Shinde and Rai among them) had put their names on one of the biggest studies on the genetic ancestry of the Central and South Asian population. That paper had sampled 612 individuals from diverse groups—carefully chosen ancient samples correlated with modern ones. It confirmed what is known, in loaded and now-politicised terms, as the 'Aryan migration' (the older 'Aryan Invasion Theory' having been refined in scholarship by the 1970s). In technical words, this study called it “large-scale genetic pressure from Steppe groups in the second millennium BC”, showing the “chain of transmission to South Asia”. They found this to be “consistent with archaeological evidence of connections between material culture in the Kazakh middle-to-late Bronze Age Steppe and early Vedic culture in India”. The genetic marker that clinched this connection was the Y chromosome haplogroup R1a (subtype Z93)—“common” in South Asia and “of high frequency” in Bronze Age Steppe DNA.

“It’s inherently racist,” says historian Irfan Habib. Adds archaeologist Shereen Ratnagar: “You cannot use genetic data to settle questions of historical linguistics.” Nayanjot Lahiri, another Harappa domain specialist, shares the disdain.

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The authors of the March paper say “much of the formation of both the Ancestral South Indians and Ancestral North Indians occurred in the 2nd millennium BC. Thus, the events that formed both the ASI and ANI overlapped (with) the decline of the Indus Valley Civilisation.” The researchers suggest the first admixture between the Iranian agriculturalists and South Asian hunter-gatherers created the ASI, Harappan people among them. Further, around the second millennium BC, the Steppe pastoralists (the ‘Aryans’) intermingled with the Harappan people and others in the northern Indian plains to create the ANI. This is a visualisation that confirms what have by now become popular 'cultural’ notions, so one needs to move carefully—especially if ‘science’ uses apparently technical terms to denote genepools. It needs to be stated that ASI, or the ‘Ancestral South Indian’, is better read as everyone’s ancestor in South Asia—whether Punjabi, Bengali or ‘Madrasi’.

Pointing out that Indo-European is a linguistic, not genetic concept, Habib says, “What they’ve found is not related to the language problem. Language doesn’t necessarily spread through genes.” He mentions the Greek and Turkish populations: genetically inclined to each other, linguistically separated. Ratnagar, who has worked extensively on Harappan sites, too says: “Indo-Iranian languages have no relation to genetics. This kind of claim is an old-fashioned, racial one.”

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A Kushan era seal found in Rakhigarhi

PHOTOGRAPH BY JITENDER GUPTA
“The Rakhigarhi people are six feet tall and sharp-featured, just like the modern Haryanvis,” says Shinde, of the ancient Rakhigarhi people. You scan Wazir Chand’s face for…what…traces of R1a/Z93? He’s a Sirohi, a Jat. “Do you know when Jats settled in these parts? They are medieval immigrants…the first mention of the ethnonym pops up no earlier than 7th century AD,” says Prof Ratnagar.

The March paper only confirmed on another axis what had always been held to be indisputably true in linguistics and other sciences. It’s a curious time: the bald tools of genetic science, often feared by historians because of the racist uses they can be put to, are actually confirming the ideas about human movements in history that all of us grew up internalising—till politics caught up. But even the March paper, with all its scale across India, Central and West Asia, did not have access to Harappan data. That’s what the present Rakhigarhi samples give us: a clear binocular view of our genetic past from a very specific time, a cusp period just before the Rigvedic influx.



The present Rakhigarhi samples give us a clear binocular view of our genetic past from a very specific time, a cusp period just before the Rigvedic influx.
So you get a zero-Steppe DNA population in the biggest Harappan site, against which to contrast the picture afterwards. “On the basis of modern-day populations, we analysed about 1,800 samples and we concluded that groups in north India still have significant amounts of Central Asian affinity,” says Rai, of the March paper. That’s just the basic facts. To elaborate lightly, “We did some analysis to figure out the exact date of the admixture. We have prepared a model in which all these stats fit together very tightly and that model suggests the Central Asian admixture happened about 1500-1000 BC…. Significant mixing happened around 1000 BC, also at 800 BC and 600 BC.”

Dravidian Harappa?

So now, Rakhigarhi comes in as a corroborative element to help settle the ‘Aryan’ debate. Not a conclusive one. But a strongly indicative one. Why not conclusive? Because language remains an open question. We don’t know what the Harappan people spoke—whether it was at all even one language! Vast distances are involved, and even today that supports multiple languages—there’s no reason to suppose that wasn’t the case 6,000 years ago. Moreover, Harappan cities were often even internally heterogeneous, just like any modern city. Not to speak of heterogeneity being a reasonable assumption for a network of well-connected cities situated as far apart as modern Afghanistan, northern Punjab, Gujarat and Haryana, with a vast suburban and rural hinterland.

But could they have been speaking 'Dravidian'...one or many, or one among many? That would, prima facie, seem consistent with the genetic data: the data would, in fact, seem to boost even the old claim of Elamo-Dravidian—the idea that Dravidian languages are linked to the ancient Iranian language Elamite. But the fact is, we simply have no idea. Scholars like Asko Parpola and Iravatham Mahadevan have spent their lives trying to decode the Indus script and linking it to the Dravidian thought world. But it has always remained speculative, requiring a leap of faith in the end. This is exactly the issue with mapping genes on to language: it’s a slippery connection.

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TREASURE TROVE
Maths teacher Ramesh Chandra with artefacts he found in his field in Rakhigarhi

PHOTOGRAPH BY JITENDER GUPTA
Racism and Other Isms

Our contemporary minds, coloured by modern political events, are almost primed to misread data such as what Rakhigarhi represents. Beyond the Aryan/Dravidian debates, there’s the competitive nationalism we have between India and Pakistan. It’s not a factor in history beyond one century, when we are dealing with a century of centuries, but we are inevitably and constantly in danger of mapping and projecting our current concerns backwards in time. A sighting of Harappa or Mohenjodaro are anyway out of the common Indian’s reach. It’s the easiest situation in which to breed resentment/envy/defiance. (“Our Harappan city is bigger than yours.”)

Even the genetic studies freely use the “Iranian farmer” and “South Asian hunter-gatherer” tropes, almost unmindful of the fact that they are dealing with rich, primitive, pre-scientific categories that will almost inevitably be filled out with cultural/racial notions. Imagining that Neolithic farming at Mehrgarh or Bhirrana emerged from an influx of “Iranian farmers” bringing in 'superior knowledge' seems consistent with current data, but it relies on and shores up ideas that carry a strong cultural freight from times that have nothing to do with the period being studied. We inevitably think of modern nations—and of contemporary Iranians or those from a strongly salient part of Iranian history. But an “Iranian” 10 millennia ago would simply not be the same thing as an Achaemenid: s/he would be part of a different kind of human flux, still to put down roots, still in the process of forging the first links to a specific land. The famous Zagros woman known as GD13a would not be culturally distinguishable from someone in ancient Mehrgarh, in Balochistan, a few days away even in the ancient world. Indeed, they would be a cultural continuum: late Neolithic minds.

Shinde, cognisant of the patterns of evolution of agriculture in pre-Indus sites, agrees with the fallacy of crediting this great civilisation directly to the flow of genes and knowledge from what can be thought of as ‘non-Indian types’ in West Asia. Nations of the Near East and Europe (or China) all have aggressive claims on antiquity, which complicates historical research—being aware of that should ideally free Indian minds from that trap.



Modern Rakhigarhi is in a hesitant dialogue with its remote past. The twin villages Rakhi Khas and Rakhi Shahpur have literally been sitting on history.
Narasimhan, though, seeks to defend genetics against all the racist antecedents: “Ethically, there is nothing inherently different about the work we do when compared with historians or archaeologists,” he says. “I believe human history is the common heritage of all humans, and it’s amazing to be able to study this directly, in a way, for the first time. This technology has not just been employed to understand the peopling of South Asia, but also of the Americas, Europe and Africa. We are also able to understand interaction not just between groups of modern humans, but also the interaction between modern humans and other archaic hominids, such as the Neanderthals.” He obviously has a point there, and the future lies perhaps in greater coordination—and ensuring genetic research is passed through the filters of commonly accepted protocols—not avoidance. That would enable the strong caveats already known from other sciences to be employed—such that genes, race and language cannot be mapped on to each other unless corroborated by other sciences. Just like the slippery link between script and language, populations too have always been known to shift language.

Rakhigarhi: A Cultural Gene

Once the caveats are accounted for, we are left with the complex and fascinating map of a Harappan civilisation—an empire seemingly without kings and armies, a political federation forged across a vast territory of 2 million sq km that achieved a rare unity in terms of planning and coordinated activity for the general weal. A thought world where social stratification did not entail poverty, whose urban systems negated the very ground of caste—and whose gender relations would be a fascinating area of study, judging by the way female bones were buried differently.

Modern Rakhigarhi is in a hesitant dialogue with its remote past. The twin modern villages have literally been sitting on history—Rakhi Khas and Rakhi Shahpur. They are home to between 12,000 and 13,000 people, 65 per cent of them Jats, a few Brahmins, and there’s a Dalit mohalla along the access to two of the mounds, marked by a high frequency of Ambedkar portraits hung up on walls. Babasaheb would have probably loved to intervene in some of these debates.

To those of its residents who have grasped the span and scale of history, it’s not only a matter of pride. They also live off the Harappan site on which they live. It offers them infinite resources to wonder at and harness. Wazir Chand has over the years, of collecting, adoring, possessing, himself become a Rakhigarhi artefact. He was sitting on one of the mounds back in the 1970s when R.S. Bisht, the then Archaeological Survey of India chief, tapped him on the shoulder and changed his life.

Talking to Outlook, the archaeologist reminisces: “I visited Rakhigarhi several times in the 1970s. It had only two known parts until then, but I saw five conspicuous mounds of varying sizes. I said it was one of the five largest cities in the subcontinent.” Bisht later called for a survey of the mounds. “I also found two other mounds just four metres away, clearly pre-Harappan,” he says. “Never before had we found so many mounds except in Harappa. I got it surveyed and protected as a national monument under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Sites and Remains Act.”

Four decades later, there are not only the thematic disputes in history—over its readings, approaches and conclusions—but also the hum of petty disputes, ownership claims and scams. One day, a non-politicised understanding may become possible. Such a day may have already existed. The Jats of Rakhigarhi have been interacting with Muslims who left these parts for Pakistan over the internet: they are overjoyed to learn they still speak Haryanvi and marry among themselves. They’ve been watching videos of old compatriots lamenting having to leave their home. On the edge of RGR2, the second mound outside the village, Sheoran does a quick ‘mathha teko’ at a mazaar. There are scarcely four or five Muslim families in the village, but everyone reveres the pir. An outer layer of history that, elsewhere, has complicated readings of the deeper layers...it lies untroubled, freshly painted by Hindu devouts, out here in Rakhigarhi.

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Mapping Ancestry

Migrations affecting ancient Central and South Asian populations (courtesy the March 2018 genome study)






    • AASI: South Asian hunter-gatherers, the earliest known inhabitants, are referred to as ‘Ancient Ancestral South Indians’



    • ASI: ‘Ancestral South Indians’ emerged from the admixture of AASI with ‘Iranian farmers’



    • ANI: ‘Ancestral North Indians’ are the result of admixture of ASI and the Steppe population



    • Why Rakhigarhi Upcoming studies from DNA samples of burials from Rakhigarhi will be the first genetic research on the Harappan population. The researches are expected to reveal who the Harappan people were and even how they looked.
https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/we-are-all-harappans/300463

@Indus Pakistan


Yes we are all Harrapans since we all (Politicians) Harrap our Govt fund collected from poor people.
@Indus Pakistan
 
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Ghanta solid lineage
Ghanta culturally, ethnically, linguistically,

Owning Istanbul doesn't give the right to Turkey to claim its heritage culture,
Heritage/culture of Constantinople is inherited by the Vatican,

Indic setting up first Kung Fu temple does not give right to India to claim its heritage,
Its Chinese who have taken it forward

Culture is not a tangible thing like land or a piece of stone which can be captured,

People will never go to Pakistan to learn Vedas (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
People will never go to Pakistan to learn Yoga (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
Researchers on Sanskrit will never go to Pakistan (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India

Pakistan only owns the land, but the culture is inherited by Indians
People who worship Invader who looted their land, Killed their ancestors have not right to give lecture on lineage

:lol::lol: no one wants a connection to crazy monkey worshipping idolaters

But we won't allow the history of this land and people to be co opted by blackie foreigners

Its like black africans telling Egyptians that they own Egyptian civilisation because its in Africa and the Egyptians became Muslims and did not want to worship Jackle headed gods:rofl::cheesy:

Tell that to your fellow countrymen , who are sooooo desperate to claim IVC

IVC is the history and heritage of this land, go hug the ganga! @El Sidd
 
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:lol::lol: no one wants a connection to crazy monkey worshipping idolaters

But we won't allow the history of this land and people to be co opted by blackie foreigners

Its like black africans telling Egyptians that they own Egyptian civilisation because its in Africa and the Egyptians became Muslims and did not want to worship Jackle headed gods:rofl::cheesy:



IVC is the history and heritage of this land, go hug the ganga! @El Sidd
stupid analogy.....
Africans have nothing to do with Egyptian culture...

Indian monk set up first Shaolin Monastery, but Kung Fu is Part of Chinese Culture (Not Indian),
Istanbul is Turkish land but the heritage of Constantinople is inherited by the Vatican,
Arabs do not claim Hebrew Culture even though they own the lands for centuries,
Indus flows through current day Pakistan, but Vedas/ Sanskrit / Yoga are not part of Pakistani culture,

Akal ghaaas chanrne gayi hai kya ......... no body goes to Pak for Yoga/ Sanskrit/ Vedas and more stuff related to IVC
 
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stupid analogy.....
Africans have nothing to do with Egyptian culture...

Indian monk set up first Shaolin Monastery, but Kung Fu is Part of Chinese Culture (Not Indian),
Istanbul is Turkish land but the heritage of Constantinople is inherited by the Vatican,
Arabs do not claim Hebrew Culture even though they own the lands for centuries,
Indus flows through current day Pakistan, but Vedas/ Sanskrit / Yoga are not part of Pakistani culture,

Akal ghaaas chanrne gayi hai kya ......... no body goes to Pak for Yoga/ Sanskrit/ Vedas and more stuff related to IVC

Very apt anology

The heritage, history of a land dosent change because people have become more enlightened

The ancient history of this land and its people dosent dissappear or change because we no longer wish to worship idols..


Nor can someone else from somewhere else co opt or steal our history or heritage

I don't give a fcuk about yoga or sanskrit but the heritage and history of our land and people won't be stolen by ganga dwellers because the cultural heritage of Pakistan influenced their primitive ganga ways

Ignorance from indians or anyone else in the world does not change the historical reality of the heritage snd origin of the peoples and land here
 
. .
Ghanta solid lineage
Ghanta culturally, ethnically, linguistically,

Owning Istanbul doesn't give the right to Turkey to claim its heritage culture,
Heritage/culture of Constantinople is inherited by the Vatican,

Indic setting up first Kung Fu temple does not give right to India to claim its heritage,
Its Chinese who have taken it forward

Culture is not a tangible thing like land or a piece of stone which can be captured,

People will never go to Pakistan to learn Vedas (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
People will never go to Pakistan to learn Yoga (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India
Researchers on Sanskrit will never go to Pakistan (originated in present-day Pak, IVC), They will come to India

Pakistan only owns the land, but the culture is inherited by Indians
People who worship Invader who looted their land, Killed their ancestors have not right to give lecture on lineage


Ghanta mera lu*

Go and bloody learn difference between empires and civilizations. There is a reason why there are only three civilizations , Indus, Babylon and Egypt, where as there has been many empires throughout the history.

Ghanta vedas, Ghanta yoga, Ghanta your bloody sansikrit. They all came AFTER the IVC was already 10 feet buried in the soil. What a turd!


We are the people of the land, our languages all trace back to Indus, Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Pashtu. How many among you billion plus miserable lot can speak these languages of Indus basin. How many among you carry the traditions and culture of Indus basin? Whatever influence is there, is just because those lands were once part of Indus.

We stuffed the major power of the world called Alexander the great and send him packing from our lands. Majority of us were already Muslims when the first extra regional Muslim army came to this region and we facilitated them to conquer the rest the of the subcontinent. The only time you gangadeshis receive the frontal assault from extra regional power, you caved in meekly , and that is when British came. You shitholes, got history to be subjected by other powers, first it was Indus, then Muslim empire and last but not least, the British. You miserable beings only got sort of independence on 15th August 1947. And that is where your history starts.

Tell an Egyptian that he is not the custodian of his Nile civilization because his forefathers were not Arabs, neither they spoke Arabic, neither they were Muslims, their attire was completely different, you might get a punch in your face.
 
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What do you mean? We are the people of the land!
You aren't the same who lived 5000 years ago. We don't know their language, culture and religion. We don't even know if there was an invasion which made them abandon their settlements. But for excavations we knew nothing about these people.
 
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