Water Car Engineer Was Not Too Far Off

[Levina]

@levina , interesting thread.

Thanks for tagging me here....I'm travelling right now,will read it later.

 

[jamahir]

in hydrogen cars the hydrogen goes into fuel cells. so its not exactly put in a tank but is actually stored as droplets in separate cells.

it seems not.

from ( Toyota Mirai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )...

High-pressure hydrogen tanks
The FCV concept used high pressure Type IV hydrogen tanks.
The Mirai has two hydrogen tanks with a three-layer structure made of carbon fiber-reinforced plastic consisting of nylon 6 from Ube Industries[38] and other materials. The tanks store hydrogen at 70 MPa (10,000 psi). The tanks have a combined weight 87.5 kg (193 lb).[2][35]

@Daneshmand @MastanKhan

 

[Gauss]

it seems not.

from ( Toyota Mirai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )...

new better developments! why not.

 

[pakdefender]

Fuel Cells running on Saltwater( Electrolyte/Ionic Liquid ) are real

The QUANT e-Sportslimousine is very real

The sports car that runs on SALTWATER: Vehicle goes from 0 to 60mph in 2.8 seconds - and has just been approved for EU roads | Daily Mail Online

Operating principle of a redox flow battery

 

[jamahir]

new better developments! why not.

but the hydrogen is enclosed not within some crystal ( or hydrate - like i read in some wiki about researches ) but in tank... okay, triple-layer but a tank still... i fear safety... can this car be used in sunny or humid climates??

i believe the best and simplest way to store hydrogen is in water, plus

there is the issue of developing some natural anti-freeze so that the vehicle can run in below-freezing conditions... and of course, a solution for real-time removal of the anti-freeze so that clean water can reach the electrolysis chamber.

Fuel Cells running on Seawater( Electrolyte/Ionic Liquid ) are real

The QUANT e-Sportslimousine is very real

The sports car that runs on SALTWATER: Vehicle goes from 0 to 60mph in 2.8 seconds - and has just been approved for EU roads | Daily Mail Online

'We've got major plans, and not just within the automobile industry,' says NanoFlowcell AG Chairman of the Board Professor Jens-Peter Ellermann.

'The potential of the NanoFlowcell is much greater, especially in terms of domestic energy supplies as well as in maritime, rail and aviation technology.'

indeed... ships and planes running on sea water.

by the way, is it just sea water or something added, because you said "electrolyte/ionic liquid"??

gauss, seems interesting... there is no large battery involved... there is liquid that goes through some membrane which generates electricity which goes into some super capacitors which distributes it to the system that includes four motors to turn the wheels.

Operating principle of a redox flow battery

umm, you will have to explain what terms like "regenerative fuel cell" means in simple words.

by the way, the car costs one million pounds !!

 

[pakdefender]

Here is a demo of operating principle of cars running on "salt water"

 

[jamahir]

Here is a demo of operating principle of cars running on "salt water"

i don't know if the magnesium chips the toy company provides are really safe ( fire ) but the vid does not describe your previously posted diagram or the "quant" car mechanism.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Looks like someone inveted the salt water prototype now go admire Gori Chamri

And yes please by all means refer to the physics logic and equations from your Metric classes which were based of work done by scientist during late 1800 to early 1900 , there is hardly anything new in those physics book that is taught in modern physics

 

[jamahir]

Looks like someone inveted the salt water prototype now go admire Gori Chamri

quoted first by pakdefender in post# 34 above.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Re-qouted it so you can admire its beauty

Lets see how many souls will challenge the Gori Chamri , for their car design and suggest their Metric class physic theories are ultimate word of god

Go ahead phone the company owners and tell them their car is fake

 

[jamahir]

Re-qouted it so you can admire its beauty

well, i admire it for its technology... looks-wise, the wing doors, umm...

Lets see how many souls will challenge the Gori Chamri , for their car design and suggest their Metric class physic theories are ultimate word of god

Go ahead phone the company owners and tell them their car is fake

the problems is not with the matrics ( like me, a college dropout )... we are open to innovative thinking.

the problem is south asian ( and chinese and japanese ) phds who think their complicated degrees are the ultimate word... funny thing is that these phds learn sciences generally forwarded by the gori chamdis but the gori chamdis themselves discarded those ways and are open to innovative, simpler and non-traditional thinking.

 

[pakdefender]

i don't know if the magnesium chips the toy company provides are really safe ( fire ) but the vid does not describe your previously posted diagram or the "quant" car mechanism.

The principle is redox flow battery , read about it here

Regenerative Fuel Cell is is also called reversible fuel cell

Flow battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The redox (reduction–oxidation) cell is a reversible fuel cell in which all electrochemical components are dissolved in the electrolyte. The energy capacity of the redox flow battery is fully independent of its power, because the energy available is related to the electrolyte volume (amount of liquid electrolyte) and the power to the surface area of the electrodes. Redox flow batteries are rechargeable (secondary cells).[4] Because they employ heterogeneous electron transfer rather than solid-state diffusion or intercalation they are more appropriately called fuel cells than batteries. In industrial practice, fuel cells are usually, and unnecessarily, considered to be primary cells, such as the H
2/O
2 system. The unitized regenerative fuel cell on NASA's Helios Prototypeis another reversible fuel cell. The European Patent Organisation classifies redox flow cells (H01M8/18C4) as a sub-class of regenerative fuel cells (H01M8/18). Examples of redox flow batteries are the Vanadium redox flow battery, polysulfide bromide battery (Regenesys), and uranium redox flow battery.[5] Redox fuel cells are less common commercially although many systems have been proposed.[6][7][8][9]

Researchers announced a prototype, zinc-polyiodide flow battery with an energy density of 167 Wh/l (watt-hours per liter). Older zinc-bromide cells reach 70 Wh/l. For comparison, lithium iron phosphate batteries that store 233 Wh/l. The zinc-polyiodide battery is claimed to be safer than other flow batteries given its absence of acidic electrolytes, nonflammability and operating range of −4 to 122 °F (−20 to 50 °C) that does not require extensive cooling circuitry, which would add weight and occupy space. One unresolved issue is zinc build-up that grew from the negative electrode and permeated the membrane, reducing efficiency. Adding alcohol to the electrolyte contained the problem.[10]

When the battery is fully discharged, both tanks hold the same electrolyte solution: a mixture of positively charged zinc ions (Zn2+) and negatively charged iodide ion, I-. When charged, one tanks holds another negative ion, polyiodide, I3-. The battery produces power by pumping liquid from external tanks into the battery's stack area where the liquids are mixed. Inside the stack, zinc ions pass through a selective membrane and change into metallic zinc on the stack's negative side.[11]


and here

Flow Battery vs. Tesla Battery Looming

/-----------

General Electric too is tinkering with idea of running a car on water


The GE/Berkeley Lab team is developing a water-based, flow battery capable of more than just traditional, stationary energy storage. Chemistries GE scientists are developing will enable a flow battery that derives its power from a novel electro-chemical reaction that all resides safely in a bath of water.

Just Add Water: GE, Berkeley Lab Explore Possible Key to Energy Storage for Electric Vehicles | Business Wire

WATER-BASED FLOW BATTERY FOR EVS

GE Global Research
High Energy Density Flow Battery for EV Storage

Program:
RANGE
ARPA-E Award:
$891,576
Location:
Fairfield, CT
Project Term:
03/28/2014 to 04/02/2015
Project Status:
ALUMNI
Website:
www.ge.com(link is external)
Technical Categories:
Transportation Storage: Vehicle Batteries

 

[yesboss]

The amount of electricity consumed to tap hydrogen gas from water is more than the energy released when Hydrogen burns. so the overall system efficiency is not that great either

Can u please explain . . .. Because what i understand from this is that it is impractical.
It is like using more fuel/electricity to make the vehicle run using the tapped hydrogen from water . .. .. then why not simply use the fuel/electricity to run the vehicle.

 

[Donatello]

Can u please explain . . .. Because what i understand from this is that it is impractical.
It is like using more fuel/electricity to make the vehicle run using the tapped hydrogen from water . .. .. then why not simply use the fuel/electricity to run the vehicle.

What that means is that the amount of energy (lets say, in Kilojoules) needed to break down Hydrogen from water, is more than the energy you will get converted to mechanical work when that Hydrogen is burnt.

There are two main ways in which you can use hydrogen as a fuel source:
1-You can use it in a combustion engine, just like your normal petrol engines or the Otto Cycle engines. The process is therefore : Hydrogen burns, hot gases expand, piston moves up and down, turning the wheels
2-You can use Hydrogen and Oxygen to combine in a fuel-cell to generate electricity, which then powers your electric motors to drive the wheels.

 

[Marium Syed]

Really is it possible? Imean is it really a serious thread?

Well he is performing electrolysis (using electricity for chemical breakdown) so your not really replacing fossil fuels.

And trust me it is practically useless in a thermodynamic point of view. If you produce hydrogen from water, then combust it again to produce water, the net production of energy is 0J