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Washington's Loss, Moscow's Gain? Russia 'Cozying Up' With Pakistan

No need my friend. You lost half your country during that time. Does "East Pakistan" ring a bell? Or better yet "Bangladesh"? If not, well google it.
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just as I expected, I didnt get the answer to my question. just the Bangladesh remark that even Indians present in a better way.

lemme repeat my question again, maybe I didnt do a good job in explaining my questions "What exactly did you guys do in 1971 that prevented Delhi from being our capital"
 
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No need my friend. You lost half your country during that time. Does "East Pakistan" ring a bell? Or better yet "Bangladesh"? If not, well google it.


you said---->



now you say---->



Which is which!? you aren't interested on the past or the US inventing crap.. Oh well..

Talk about self contradiction. You are having reading compressions buddy.
 
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Whatever makes you sleep better buddy! @jhungary , you served there right? Stop surfing those waves and help me explain!!! @gambit , can you please elaborate on this gentleman about "Vietnam". I read on one of your posts an similar explanation. Cant remember where though.

:usflag:

I sleep like a baby...

As for serving in Afghanistan.. It's been what? 14 years or more? What have you achieved in Afghanistan..

Not really a hard question to answer .. Is it?

As for Vietnam.. Not sure what you achieved there.. The communists still rule Vietnam..


You lost dozens of thousands of troops.. The Viets lost millions... And south Vietnam still fell.. And as usual you left ... Achieving nothing except millions of dead Viets and generations suffering from deformities thanks to agent orange or Mai Lais.

just as I expected, I didnt get the answer to my question. just the Bangladesh remark that even Indians present in a better way.

lemme repeat my question again, maybe I didnt do a good job in explaining my questions "What exactly did you guys do in 1971 that prevented Delhi from being our capital"

They turned their ships when the Soviets sent theirs... And sanctioned Pakistan.. How helpful.

I don't know why people are interpreting one article as substituting the US with Russia. It is just an opinion piece.

Although there is undeniable truth that the relations between the US and Pakistan is marred by distrust, vilification and hostility. This has a long history and everyone is aware of this.

Keeping this in mind, we cannot ignore that the Americans themselves are indulged in disconnecting and creating hostility by creating camps. Pakistan too has to look out for its interests. China and Russia are our natural allies. Our interests converge on many regional and international matters. There is no harm in Pakistan Russia approaching one another and improving relations. Besides, this relation isn't meant to rival other relations. It is only meant for security and economic cooperation. Anyone interpreting this relationship differently is insecure.

By the same token, can't we ask the same questions regarding the US India nexus? Is this relationship aimed at anyone? How are we to interpret this relationship?

Pakistan should never have been part of American warmongering during the Cold War. This is where it all went wrong. Yes, Pakistan should have a neutral stance is world affairs. We have learnt the hard way.
Pak should have good relations with USA.. But trusting them is the worst thing one can do.. US looks for her interests.. And thanks to their engagement with Pak.. (And learning from mistakes).. Pakistan looks and should look out for its own.

Even in 65 .. US sanctioned Pakistan.. Than in the 70s... And than again in the 90s .. Lifted then in 2000s when US needed Pak (again) for Afghanistan..
 
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Pakistani journalist Naveed Ahmad suggests that as Washington disengages from Pakistan, a process he likens to 'loosening the noose', Moscow, in a number of areas, has, on the contrary, chosen to 'cautiously cozy up' with Islamabad.

In his analysis, published Monday in Pakistani English-language newspaper The Express Tribune, Ahmad recalled that while President Obama was busy gaining Islamabad's ire with remarks suggesting that instability would plague the country 'for decades', "Russian Army Chief General Oleg Salyukov," on the other hand, "approved holding military exercises with Pakistan codenamed Indestructible Brotherhood."

"The first-ever Russian-Pakistani special war games in mountainous terrain are one of seven international exercises planned by the Kremlin for 2016. A Russian military-technical cooperation team has just concluded its visit to Pakistan," the journalist explained.



"After overruling Indian objections against the sale of four Mi-24 Hind gunship helicopters to Pakistan last year, Russia will now directly export Klimov RD-93 engines [to the country]. Besides enhancing the capability of the JF-17 Thunder jet [jointly developed by Pakistan and China], the engine's direct import will earn the fighter jet greater confidence from foreign customers."

Furthermore, the journalist noted, "the order for the Russian [Mi-24] gunships is likely to be ratcheted up to 20 helicopters. The next test case for Moscow will be Pakistan's desire to buy Su-35 fighter jets, which it's delivering to China this year."

"For Pakistan," Ahmad suggests, "Russia is an alternate source of sophisticated military weaponry." For its part, he adds, Islamabad "hopes that Russian military transactions won't come with political strings, Putin's ambition for global leadership notwithstanding."

And even though Russia, for many decades, has had a special relationship with India — one which it has no intention of breaking, relations between Moscow and Islamabad have nevertheless been improving, "after a decade of diplomatic efforts."


On the geostrategic level, recalling that "the Kremlin has neither forgotten Afghanistan nor the role Pakistan played in frustrating its ambitions," referring to Islamabad's assistance for jihadists fighting Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s, the journalist, somewhat oddly, suggests that today, Russia "is pursuing a more Machiavellian approach to Pakistan and Afghanistan."


"For now," Ahmad notes, "Moscow seeks stability in both countries, [and] has lauded the Pakistani effort to curb extremism and end the insurgency in Afghanistan."

That Russia seeks stability in a region bordering the soft underbelly of Central Asia, where Moscow has struggled against Islamist terrorism and drug trafficking since the collapse of the Soviet Union, should come as no surprise to the analyst.

Instead, he argues, "in pursuit of a renewed quest for geopolitical dominance, Russia is bidding to win newer allies and markets." In Pakistan, "besides selling high-tech defense hardware, Moscow is exploiting its advances in the energy sector too. For starters, Russia will be laying a $2-$2.5 billion gas pipeline from Karachi to Lahore. Rostec Corporation will start building the pipeline next year."

Just as importantly, Ahmad recalls, "Islamabad is also currently working to finalize a free trade agreement with Russia. The success of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor may lead to a long-envisioned transit trade agreement with Eurasian states. Pakistan has been aiming for an FTA with the Eurasian Economic Union."

At the same time, the journalist suggests, "there is a lesser degree of warmth among members of the Pakistani business community" toward increased business cooperation with Russia. This, he notes, is related to the possible politicization of any economic relations between the two countries, exemplified recently by the downturn in economic relations between Russia and Turkey following Ankara's shoot down of a Russian jet over Syria late last year.

In any case, Ahmad notes, "Pakistan has so far treaded a fine line in its advances toward Russia," abstaining from commentary on the Crimean referendum which saw the peninsula return to Russia in 2014, and "exercising caution" regarding the Russian military intervention in Syria.


Ultimately, the journalist suggests, "Russia and Pakistan neither share strategic partners (with the exception of China) nor have convergence of foreign policy interests. Due to a lack of business ties and the absence of people-to-people contacts, the military-to-military dealings will be remain an exception."

For its part, Ahmad notes, "learning from past experiences, Islamabad is least likely to choose sides between Moscow and Washington. The Kremlin is in no hurry either." Still, "as Washington gradually disengages itself from Islamabad, Moscow has chosen to cautiously cozy up with Pakistan."



First of all i was the one who said this is going to happen and it happened so many people said harsh words that my state of mind is not correct


This is a slap we should make russia our strategic and tactical partner offer them a naval base in gwadar or karachi they will grab it with both hands and make us more powerfull in region with china in gwadar two beasts sitting in even india never block khi seas ever


Why these journalist talk when these relations happen
 
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They turned their ships when the Soviets sent theirs... And sanctioned Pakistan.. How helpful.




Even in 65 .. US sanctioned Pakistan.. Than in the 70s... And than again in the 90s .. Lifted then in 2000s when US needed Pak (again) for Afghanistan..

exactly, they did not help at all and as always they sanctioned us when we needed em. even i '65 after the sanctions we got our first batch of Shenyang J-6 because we realized how "helpful" they were during the war.
but lets see what this yank has to say,
 
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exactly, they did not help at all and as always they sanctioned us when we needed em. even i '65 after the sanctions we got our first batch of Shenyang J-6 because we realized how "helpful" they were during the war.
but lets see what this yank has to say,

He will ask others to answer ..
Or post irrelevant stuff which I'm sure many indians would "thank"..

Oh will .. Ancient history...

We must push our relations with russia at new heights

Every nation looks out for its interests.. It's in Paks interests to have good relations with both Russ and merica.
 
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He will ask others to answer ..
Or post irrelevant stuff which I'm sure many indians would "thank"..

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Lol I call some particular members here "Thank Wh***s" just cuz of that,
It makes something lame look ok.
 
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Thats is painful but correct,
Id only see India making deals with jews in Israel, negotiating for a Temple in UAE the other day, receive Investments from China , buy expensive goods from USA and lastly have military exercises with Saudi Arabia, all that simultaneously.

That is indeed something well played.

At times, mistakes comitted 30 years ago bite back now.

You can change that even now.

For example, it was a smart move by your PM Sharif to tell Saudi and Iran that you will not take sides, barring the reports of increasing PA troop presence inside Saudi Arabia. I know you guys are close but do unto others what they are willing to do for you.

This is the perfect chance to wiggle out of this US-China-Saudi-Iran-Turkey-Russia-EU treadmill that your leaders have been constantly running on for decades.

Unless and until your generals and politicians take the initiative to create an independent Pakistani perspective of the world, your politics will continue to be hijacked by lobbies that curry favour to any of these 7 entities I mentioned above.

The world is bigger than these countries. It will take many years of grinding hard work to cultivate the kind of mature political stand but it will be worth it. In short term it will not work in your favour but in a couple of decades you will see its benefits.

Think about it.
 
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We should pull ourselves away from our horrible past and glorification of the anti soviet jihad in Afghanistan and work to become friends. US never was and never will be a real friend. IT did not come to our aid in 71, it refused to give us the f16's we already paid for and punished us for our efforts against the Soviets with the Pressler Amendment. They even killed our troops in the Salala incident and Davis killed at least 2 Pakistani civilians and escaped claiming diplomatic immunity. He had numbers of LEJ commanders in his phone.

I don't know why our spineless leadership never tried to develop ties with Russia at the expense of America. Russia is a far better ally than a traitorous nation like the USA. We need to pull away from this detrimental partnership as quickly as possible.

US didn't come to pak's aid ? OMG how ingrateful bunch you guys are !

We sent a battle group near the indian coast ! The intent was to desist indian forces from crossing over the boundary and let the negotiations in UN reach some fruition. But your leadership's high testosterone attitude didn't let things fall in place.

Go check the videos of pak representative in UN before the war. Look the way he was talking in the session and threw the paper in the air and nonchalantly declared that "we will tough it out ourselves". Then you guys as an act of pure battlefield tactical genius bombed the indian airbases without even shoring up the defenses in bangladesh !

What you guys effectively did was move the dynamics from the negotiation table to a war room where things were supposed to have gone down in surprising ways. Military operations by it's nature do.

If we would have relented I don't think you guys were getting those ~100 thousand POWs back without giving some part of land in your west as well !
 
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No need my friend. You lost half your country during that time. Does "East Pakistan" ring a bell? Or better yet "Bangladesh"? If not, well google it.


you said---->



now you say---->



Which is which!? you aren't interested on the past or the US inventing crap.. Oh well..

You don't get it do you? We have no interest in adding millions of people to our country's already huge population.

Think again.
 
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Buddy if we weren't there in 71, your country's capital would be New Delhi by now. As I have said so many times to you @haviZsultan , stop listening and watching that "AMERICA IS EVIL" crap its screwing your mind.

@Armstrong , @Penguin , @Providence @KAL-EL . @CENTCOM @Nihonjin1051 , @jhungary and @gambit a little help here? Whats your take on this one?



Maybe you were present in school but you weren't listening to the teacher brother. And yet again I have to say it.. Stop listening and watching that "AMERICA IS EVIL" crap its screwing your mind!!!
What would you call a nation that used nuclear weapons on a hapless nation like Japan which had none and now has the audacity to dictate which state should and should not have nukes? After a history of stealing Mexican land and killing indigenous Indians if America is called evil then I fully support this stand. US is a bully and it is definitely evil.

US didn't come to pak's aid ? OMG how ingrateful bunch you guys are !

We sent a battle group near the indian coast ! The intent was to desist indian forces from crossing over the boundary and let the negotiations in UN reach some fruition. But your leadership's high testosterone attitude didn't let things fall in place.

Go check the videos of pak representative in UN before the war. Look the way he was talking in the session and threw the paper in the air and nonchalantly declared that "we will tough it out ourselves". Then you guys as an act of pure battlefield tactical genius bombed the indian airbases without even shoring up the defenses in bangladesh !

What you guys effectively did was move the dynamics from the negotiation table to a war room where things were supposed to have gone down in surprising ways. Military operations by it's nature do.

If we would have relented I don't think you guys were getting those ~100 thousand POWs back without giving some part of land in your west as well !
Then what was the Presler Amendment which came after we had played a major role in beating the Soviets only for you. 71 was mostly our fault but America has been a bully across the world and relations with it have harmed us more than they have benefited us. Who was backing Zia ul Haq the biggest Islamist in Pakistan's history.

We are not ungrateful. it is Americans who are and always ask us to do more being the bully you have always been. You killed our soldiers in Salala for no reason at all. Respecting America is like raping yourself, sorry to say. I have no respect for tyrants.
 
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What would you call a nation that used nuclear weapons on a hapless nation like Japan which had none and now has the audacity to dictate which state should and should not have nukes? After a history of stealing Mexican land and killing indigenous Indians if America is called evil then I fully support this stand. US is a bully and it is definitely evil.


Then what was the Presler Amendment which came after we had played a major role in beating the Soviets only for you. 71 was mostly our fault but America has been a bully across the world and relations with it have harmed us more than they have benefited us. Who was backing Zia ul Haq the biggest Islamist in Pakistan's history.

We are not ungrateful. it is Americans who are and always ask us to do more being the bully you have always been. You killed our soldiers in Salala for no reason at all. Respecting America is like raping yourself, sorry to say. I have no respect for tyrants.

I won't be surprised if you say the same thing to China 10 years from now , USA has historically been one of Pakistan's biggest allies . Its really disappointing to see how USA gets bashed here after all they have done .

You let yourself become their proxy, no one forced you to start a war. And its extremely self centered to expect USA and UK to attack those nuclear subs in the 70s .
 
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I won't be surprised if you say the same thing to China 10 years from now , USA has historically been one of Pakistan's biggest allies . Its really disappointing to see how USA gets bashed here after all they have done .

You let yourself become their proxy, no one forced you to start a war. And its extremely self centered to expect USA and UK to attack those nuclear subs in the 70s .

Stop comparing China and the US. There is no comparison. China has no history of bullying and occupying other countries on false pretences. China doesn't interfere nor overthrow regimes. China doesn't arm rebel and militant groups. China simply conducts business and doesn't meddle in the internal matters of other countries. There will never be any reason for Pakistan to compare China with the US as long as they don't resort to duplicity and backstabbing.

The US has only extracted its interests and it applies this policy for every country. The US isn't an ally of Pakistan and never has been. The US provides aid in return for political and various other favors. The US walks over dead bodies of other people to achieve their interests. For instance, in Pakistan the US has killed countless innocent people including women and children during indiscriminate drone strikes. They provide all sorts of excuses to defend the killing, but their unilateral actions break all conventions. Don't expect the people to love the Americans when they resort to duplicitous behavior.

Military rulers and democratic leaders alike in Pakistan have made the horrendous mistake by taking aid from the US and adhering to their duplicitous demands. The people of Pakistan are fed up with both the appeasing policies of the government and the duplicitous relation with the US. Don't blame the Pakistani people for demanding change. The protest and dislike of the people isn't going to change anytime soon unless both the government and the US change their hypocritical ways. The US cannot change the perception of the people by throwing money or paid advertisements. The people are fully aware.
 
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So all these years what we were doing bulling our selves sence 90s
He will ask others to answer ..
Or post irrelevant stuff which I'm sure many indians would "thank"..

Oh will .. Ancient history...



Every nation looks out for its interests.. It's in Paks interests to have good relations with both Russ and merica.
 
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