Was Jinnah secular or not?

[Myth_buster_1]

This was answered by Scholars six decades ago.

@MayaBazar the xyz articles you posting have ZERO value.

Well guess what, we are not in the past. As much as i would like to see it happen but in reality this will NEVER happen unless imam mehdi arrives.

 

[Rusty]

masallah! and whose version will it be? if we gather 10 muslims I bet 50% of the time their will be disagreement on interpenetration.

If you gather 10 Muslims there will be 11 opinions

 

[MayaBazar]

This was answered by Scholars six decades ago.

@MayaBazar the xyz articles you posting have ZERO value.

Did you listen and read what Jinnah said in his speech on 11th August, 1947 ?

Jinnah spoke of his vision of Pakistan in his address to the Pakistan Constituent Assembly on August 11, 1947.

He spoke first of the ?cyclonic revolution?? which had created two independent sovereign dominions. Then he told the people of Pakistan, ?You are free; you are free to go to your temples, your are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed ? that has nothing to do with the business of the State. We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State?I think we should keep in front of us our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.??

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/was-jinnah-secular-or-not.667930/page-2#post-12358738

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/was-jinnah-secular-or-not.667930/page-2#post-12358696

 

[Cygnus Black]

Secular Pakistan will be a very weak, unstable and fractured state; and geopolitically a nobody like Bangladesh. It is Pakistan's Islamic character which provides it strategic depth in Afghanistan, IOK, India and the wider Islamic World. It is Pakistan's Islamic ideology alone which allows it to punch way, way above its weight and put a neighbor 10 times its size in its place. A secular Pakistan will in no time be converted into four or more vassal states by India.

And this is coming from an atheist who realizes the importance of preservation of Islamic ideology not only for the survival of Pakistan but also to pay the way for disintegration of India.

 

[El Sidd]

The state does but care which religion you follow.

Easy

Does the State of Pakistan dictate which God you worship or how you worship?

If you gather 10 Muslims there will be 11 opinions

that can be true for anyone else too.

You seem to reserve some special rights for the Muslims in this regard.

 

[Rusty]

Does the State of Pakistan dictate which God you worship or how you worship?


that can be true for anyone else too.

You seem to reserve some special rights for the Muslims in this regard.

Clever
But.
-"state does not care"
Is not the same as
-" the state does not dictate"

 

[El Sidd]

Did you listen and read what Jinnah said in his speech on 11th August, 1947 ?

Jinnah spoke of his vision of Pakistan in his address to the Pakistan Constituent Assembly on August 11, 1947.

He spoke first of the ?cyclonic revolution?? which had created two independent sovereign dominions. Then he told the people of Pakistan, ?You are free; you are free to go to your temples, your are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed ? that has nothing to do with the business of the State. We are starting in the days when there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State?I think we should keep in front of us our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.??

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/was-jinnah-secular-or-not.667930/page-2#post-12358738

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/was-jinnah-secular-or-not.667930/page-2#post-12358696

He mentions Government not State in the address.

And people are free in Pakistan to choose their place of worship.

The state only collects religious tax from the Muslims.

Clever
But.
-"state does not care"
Is not the same as
-" the state does not dictate"

It does not care how and what lead to your beliefs still.

It however asks you to identify yourself for demographics.

 

[Rusty]

He mentions Government not State in the address.

And people are free in Pakistan to choose their place of worship.

The state only collects religious tax from the Muslims.



It does not care how and what lead to your beliefs still.

It however asks you to identify yourself for demographics.

And the makes it not secular.

Because be that the state is getting into religion, it has a knock down effect.

Eg teaching "Islamic classes" in school.

As a Muslim, I don't what some hick teaching my kids God knows what.

I want them to follow the Islam if the golden age where free thoughts and ideas were the norm.

 

[El Sidd]

And the makes it not secular.

Because be that the state is getting into religion, it has a knock down effect.

Eg teaching "Islamic classes" in school.

As a Muslim, I don't what some hick teaching my kids God knows what.

I want them to follow the Islam if the golden age where free thoughts and ideas were the norm.

You basically want them to follow you and figment of your imagination. So much for free thought

and

Do you even know the curriculums of Islamic provisions as taught by the State of Pakistan? It has nothing to do with anything you supposedly stand against or for.

Instead of these blanket statement for rhetorical purposes throw in some credibility by pointing out the provisions of the social justice as perceived by the constitution of Pakistan in its Islamic spirit.

Enough quack quack

 

[MayaBazar]

He mentions Government not State in the address.

And people are free in Pakistan to choose their place of worship.

The state only collects religious tax from the Muslims.

Pakistan did not have its own constitution until 1956.

Pakistan was British Dominion from 1947 through 1956.

So you have to go by Jinnah's speech speech on 11th August, 1947 where he articulated what his vision was for the constitution of Pakistan.

Unfortunately for Pakistan, Jinnah died in 1948 before the constitution was drafted and finalized.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

I think we should keep in front of us our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.??

Love this statement of Jinnah.

 

[El Sidd]

What difference does it makes? Question should be what type of Pakistan 200 millions Pakistanis want Islamic or secular.

The question simply is as @VCheng puts it.

Objective Resolution.

The paranoid xenophobia is getting mainstream political leverage in Pakistan

Pakistan did not have its own constitution until 1956.

Pakistan was British Dominion from 1947 through 1956.

So you have to go by Jinnah's speech speech on 11th August, 1947 where he articulated what his vision was for the constitution of Pakistan.

Unfortunately for Pakistan, Jinnah died in 1948 before the constitution was drafted and finalized.

Jinnah was a democrat who would have left people to do their own even if he was alive.

Pakistan would be more in tuned with its Islamic heritage had Jinnah lived longer.

You haven't figured him out 70 years after killing Gandhi and it bugs you i know.

acha sorry

 

[Rusty]

You basically want them to follow you and figment of your imagination. So much for free thought

and

Do you even know the curriculums of Islamic provisions as taught by the State of Pakistan? It has nothing to do with anything you supposedly stand against or for.

Instead of these blanket statement for rhetorical purposes throw in some credibility by pointing out the provisions of the social justice as perceived by the constitution of Pakistan in its Islamic spirit.

Enough quack quack

Lol yeah
When you know you are loosing the conversation you bust out the personal attacks.

It's a classic move.

Btw, why are you living in that secular hell hole called Canada?
You should leave right away since it's so bad and evil

Oh right, hypocrisy.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

 

[El Sidd]

Btw, why are you living in that secular hell hole called Canada?

I am a visiting Pakistani faculty here on an official invite.

When you know you are loosing the conversation you bust out the personal attacks

quack quack was more offensive than poo poo head?