Turkey should come out of Christian NATO and then preach
On the idea of "Christian NATO":
1) There is a great degree of variation between NATO members
- in terms of the degree of their populaces' (ir)religiousness, and
- to the degree that they can be considered predominantly Christian, in terms of what kind of Christians and degree of homogeneity of that group (uniformly Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Greek Orthodox etc. or mixed)
- in terms of the degree to which there is or isn't a substantial group of Muslims, and what the history of that group is (i.e. the result of e.g. relatively recent migration, or e.g. colonial past, or e.g. world religion crossroads)
2) In recent years, other countries with more substantial muslim populations have joined NATO (Bulgaria, Albania). Note also that the countries aspiring NATO membership (currently there are 3) all have a rather significant muslim element in their population. So, one could say NATO has been changing in that sense.
3) While Russia on the whole is more religiously affiliated in general and more Christian than e.g. Western Europe, folks here NEVER speak of 'Christian Russia', even when they perceive Russia to be a (potential) ally against NATO. Back in the day, the Warsaw Pact could/would also have been labeled 'Christian'.
4) There are parts of the world that are more affiliated, more p
redominantly Christian, more heterogenously Christian (i.e. Catholic) and have a smaller Muslim element than Northern America and Western Europe and nevertheless aren't considered threateningly Christian here (e.g. Mexico and Latin America, Middle America and South America).
5) It is evident that in the NATO-area as a whole, there tends to be a greater degree of religious diversity, as compared to e.g. Middle East and North Africa, even if Christian beliefs remain dominant in the NATO area
Just some food for thought.
Founding members
- Belgium 5.90 % muslim, 29.00 % unaffilated, 3.29 % other, 64.20 % christian
- Canada 2.10 % muslim, 23.70 % unaffiliated, 4.11 % other, 69.00 % christian
- Denmark 4.10 % muslim, 11.80 % unaffilated, 0.60 % other, 83.50 % christian
- France 7.50 % muslim, 28.00 % unaffiliated, 1.55 % other, 63.00 % christian
- Iceland 0.20 % muslim, 3.50 % unaffiliated, 1.40 % other, 95.00 % christian
- Italy 3.70 % muslim, 12.40 % unaffiliated, 0.58 % other, 83.30 % christian
- Luxembourg 2.30 % muslim, 26.80 % unaffiliated, 0.40 % other, 70.40 % christian
- Netherlands 6.00 % muslim, 42.10 % unaffilated, 1.30 % other, 50.60 % christian
- Norway 3.70 % muslim, 10.10 % unaffilated, 1.30 % other, 84.70 % christian
- Portugal 0.60 % muslim, 4.40 % unaffiliated, 1.20 % other, 93.80 % christian
- United Kingdom 4.40 % muslim, 21.30 % unaffilated, 3.30 % other, 71.10 % christian
- United States 0.90 % muslim, 16.40 % unaffiliated, 4.40 % other, 78.30 % christian
Other member countries (in order of joining)
- Greece 5.30 % muslim, 6.10 % unaffiliated, 0.20 % other, 88.10 % christian
- Turkey 98.00 % muslim, 1.20 % unaffiliated, 0.31 % other, 0.40 % christian
- Germany 5.80 % muslim, 24.70 % unaffilated, 0.85 % other, 68.70 % christian
- Spain 2.10 % muslim, 19.00 % unaffiliated, 0.20% other, 78.60 % christian
- Czech Republic 0.00 % muslim, 76.40 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 23.30 % christian
- Hungary 0.00 % muslim, 18.60 % unaffiliated, 0.10 % other, 81.00 % christian
- Poland 0.10 % muslim, 5.60 % unaffiliated, 0.03 % other, 94.30 % christian
- Bulgaria 13.70 % muslim, 4.20 % unaffilated, 0.00 % other, 82.10 % christian
- Estonia 0.20 % muslim, 59.60 % unaffiliated, 0.10 % other, 39.90 % christian
- Latvia 0.10 % muslim, 43.80 % unaffiliated, 0.20 % other, 55.80 % christian
- Lithuania 0.00 % muslim, 10.00 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 89.80 % christian
- Romania 0.30 % muslim, 0.10 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 99.50 % christian
- Slovakia 0.20 % muslim, 14.30 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 85.30 % christian
- Slovenia 3.60 % muslim, 18.00 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 78.40 % christian
- Albania 80.30 % muslim, 1.40 % unaffiliated, 0.20 % other, 18.00 % christian
- Croatia 1.40 % muslim, 5.10 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 93.40 % christian
Aspiring/Candidate countries:
- Bosnia 45.20 % muslim, 2.50 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 52.30 % christian
- Macedonia 39.30 % muslim, 1.40 % unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 59.30 % christian
- Montenegro 29.00 % muslim, 0% unaffiliated, 0.00 % other, 71.00 % christian
By comparison:
World 23.18 % muslim, 16.33 % unaffilated, 28.98 % other, 31.51 % christian
- Northern America 1.02 % muslim, 17.12 % unaffiliated, 4.49 % other, 77.38 % christian
- Latin America & Caribbean 0.13 %muslim, 7.69 % unaffiliated, 2.1 % other, 90.03 % christian
- Mexico & Middle America 0.02 % muslim, 5.57 % unaffiliated, 0.41 % other, 93.94 % christian
- South America 0.17 % muslim, 7.98 % unaffiliated, 2.24 % other, 89.57 % christian
- Europe 5.85 % muslim, 18.15 % unaffilated, 0.80 % other, 75.18 % christian
- Western 5.80 % muslim, 26.27 % unaffilated, 2.13 % other, 65.85 % christian
- Northern 3.46 % muslim, 18.15 % unaffiliated, 0.80 % other, 77.52 % christian
- Central 3.30 % muslim, 21.53 % unaffiliated, 0.49 % other, 74.63 % christian
- Southeastern 14.27 % muslim, 2.45 % unaffiliated, 0.08 % other, 83.11 % christian
- Southern 2.78 % muslim, 14.21 % unaffiliated, 0.49 % other, 83.11 % christian
- Russia 10.00 % muslim, 16.20 % unaffiliated, 0.52 % other, 73.30 % christian
- Middle East & North Africa, 92.97 % muslim, 0.60 % unaffiliated, 2.66 % other, 3.74 % christian
- Middle East 88.94 % muslim, 0.73 % unaffiliated, 5.73 % other, 4.61 % christian
- North Africa 95.83 % muslim, 0.51 % unaffiliated, 0.49 % other, 3.13 % christian
- Sub-Saharan Africa 30.17 % muslim, 3.22 % unaffiliated, 3.68% other, 62.89 % christian
- Western Africa 53.36 % muslim, 1.64 % unaffiliated, 4.27 % other, 62.89 % christian
- Eastern Africa 22.01 % muslim, 2.81 % unaffiliated, 3.90 % other, 71.27 % christian
- Middle Africa 9.03 % muslim, 3.18 % unaffiliated, 2.37 % other, 85.34 % christian
- Southern Africa 1.50 % muslim, 14.04 % unaffiliated, 2.11 % other, 82.25 % christian
- Asia and the Pacific 24.30 % muslim, 21.16 % unaffiliated, 47.46 % other, 7.07 % christian
- Western Asia 96.81 % muslim, 0.52 % unaffiliated, 0.23 % other, 2.40 % christian
- Central Asia 88.69 % muslim, 1.72 % unaffiliated, 0.22 % other, 9.30 % christian
- Southeastern Asia 40.38 % muslim, 4.70 % unaffiliated, 33.61 % other, 21.33 % christian
- Southern Asia 30.08 % muslim, 0.07 % unaffiliated, 67.7 % other, 2.21 % christian
- India 14.40 % muslim, 0.07 % unaffiliated, 83.10 % other, 2.50 % christian
- Eastern Asia: 1.57 % muslim, 52.10 % unaffiliated, 40.7 % other, 5.56 % christian
- China 1.80 % muslim, 52.20 % unaffiliated, 40.8 % other, 5.10 % christian
Lol, you force yourself too much bud for looking smartass. Still it left a ruined Europe behind instead of sitting on the table and solve the problems.
I.e. you admit you were wrong, and that there only is WW2 that you could point to. Besides, did our ruin lead us to be devastated poor nations today?
On 22 June 1941, only four days after the signing of the German–Turkish Non-Aggression Pact, German troops invaded the Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa. One could argue Turkey thus facilitatted the attack on Russia. One could also argue the promise of the pact and Turkey's non-intervention facilitated the annexation and occupation of the Balkan region by the Axis powers. Turkey also shipped chromium, a vital element in the production of planes, tanks and U-boats, to Nazi Germany until the Turkish declaration of war. Turkey declared war on Germany only at the very end of the WW2 conflict, as a means of being allowed to join the postwar United Nations. One could argue therefore that Turkey thus lengthened that war.
I'm not going to, but it could be argued ;-)
The US, China, Japan, Germany, Spain, Russia, Turkey, Poland, Brazil, they all have a vision for their future. They have goals they want to achieve. Italy and the Netherlands don't have goals. Two countries dominated by small business minded populace, only interested in day to day profits. The Dutch will worry more about how much their beer cost today than what their country and Europe will meet up the the world challenges of tomorrow. Italy is not even worth mentioning because the government it is not worth any serious consideration. It's a shame a country could be run that way. Any country.
In general however Europeans are not ready to take responsability to become a superpower. They will only sit there and complain about what the Americans do, but they don't have an alternative. The EU as a block is powerful and usually expresses good ideals. Concern for environment, social justice, education, progress. But the populace don't want any of that. Each country thinks they will be better off by itself. Holland is no exception. They think they are the best anyway, and they can take on to the whole world all by themselves. The Hutus and the Tutsis thought the same. The real winner of the Europeans stupid disputes? Americans, Chinese, Russians. They will be the powers of the future. The losers? Europeans. Nobody will be able to look after their interests any more.
Holland was doomed anyway, by demografic implosion, cultural stagnation, natural elements. The sea, sooner or later, will claim that land. Probably too late for the sake of all of us.
The Dutch think Euroskepticism is cool. It is fashionable right now. Let's go back to the (whatever name their insignificant currency was called). We are better off on our own. They say this with a little grince on their ugly faces, and their friends laugh around them. It's Dutch humor. The type that says :"I'm realistic, I'm practical, I don't fall for intellectual crap."
Even the least sophisticated American farmer is much more educated than the average Dutch. So any direction their government would want to take would not have the support of their own people. For God's sake the Dutch are still worshipping a royal family! It's a country that should be shamed for its past, but they are afraid of the future. So the best they can do is hold on their small currency and hope it gets them more beer as a unified currency would.
The USA has given Europe everything it has today. It has already rescued Europe (with the help of the Soviets) from their little querrels and conflictual tendencies. Because of EU and NATO Europeans have not been fighting each other for 60 years. But this is a small anomany in thousands of history of divisions. You want the real face of Europe? You want to know how the Dutch really are? Look at Yugoslavia in the 90s. Look at Lebanon. Look at South Africa before the 1990s. Not only are they the mirror of Europeans true nature, but those are all situations provoked by Europeans.
The Dutch would love to have South Africa again. They can't, but their diamond mining companies are still operative and responsible for some of the worst human right abuses in history. Then the Dutch will tell you we believe in human right. Oh really? Look at your fu**ing mines. Why is Amsterdam the center of European diamond trade? The Dutch think their little slave trades will keep them wealthy for ever, just like Norwegians rely on fishing and oil to maintain their standards. You could argue that some arabs are doing the same. But if you look at the Emirates and Dubai, you know they are using oil to jump into the future. Not live in the past.
A rather poor offering, ill-informed and liberally littered with deliberate insult (rather than substance)
