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War Preparation, Kashmir Liberation 2020

And vice versa. If war starts we will also assure that India will pay the price which they will never recover. Also we will also assure to achieve our military goals as well. So stop living in fool's paradise.

True and I don't believe any war is breaking out. We did what we wanted to do, next up is complete integration of J&K in to India. We are not attacking, our immediate focus would be peace and law and order in J&K and even your Army generals are not fools to attack an enemy thrice their size at a time when your economy is in shambles.
 
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True and I don't believe any war is breaking out. We did what we wanted to do, next up is complete integration of J&K in to India. We are not attacking, our immediate focus would be peace and law and order in J&K and even your Army generals are not fools to attack an enemy thrice their size at a time when your economy is in shambles.
you are mistaken, that you can absorb J&K. Also peace and stability cant come into place by imposing Curfew, arresting people, killing people and committing human rights violations. And neither our govt nor our generals are fools that they will allow India to absorb Kashmir and press the Juggler vein of Pakistan. Now you will see its Do or Die and Now or Never. If its Do or Die then forget about economy and three time bigger country. It will be Die situation for both. This situation will not calm down as you are assessing it. The final outcome has already been started and its End could be MAD or destruction beyond any recoverable means. Mark my words.
 
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you are mistaken, that you can absorb J&K. Also peace and stability cant come into place by imposing Curfew, arresting people, killing people and committing human rights violations. And neither our govt nor our generals are fools that they will allow India to absorb Kashmir and press the Juggler vein of Pakistan. Now you will see its Do or Die and Now or Never. If its Do or Die then forget about economy and three time bigger country. It will be Die situation for both. This situation will not calm down as you are assessing it. The final outcome has already been started and its End could be MAD or destruction beyond any recoverable means. Mark my words.

We are not absorbing it in the next 48 hours, it may take 20 years but finally the journey has started and now J&K is like any other state in India. Okay, it is not a state now but union territory meaning it will be directly ruled from Center meaning the soft separatism of muftis and abdullahs and crores of rupees at their disposal and shops of separatists will be closed for good. More power to law-abiding people of J&K and not corrupt selfish separatist, dual-faced politicians.
 
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We are not absorbing it in the next 48 hours, it may take 20 years but finally the journey has started and now J&K is like any other state in India. Okay, it is not a state now but union territory meaning it will be directly ruled from Center meaning the soft separatism of muftis and abdullahs and crores of rupees at their disposal and shops of separatists will be closed for good. More power to law-abiding people of J&K and not corrupt selfish separatist, dual-faced politicians.
Lets wait and see, your perception is right or mine? As i told you this is the time Now or Never. Previously this Phrase "Now or Never" were used in 1930s and we got our independent state "Pakistan", now again its "Now or Never" for Kashmir. As we cant afford to loose Kashmir even if we have to sustain unbearable loses. As if Kashmir will forcefully absorb by India then It will be slow and poisons death for Pakistan. And we will prefer Honorable death over the disgrace. And for later case we will assure that India will also die with us. So there will be no Union Territory who will rule Kashmir.
 
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Lets wait and see, your perception is right or mine? As i told you this is the time Now or Never. Previously this Phrase "Now or Never" were used in 1930s and we got our independent state "Pakistan", now again its "Now or Never" for Kashmir. As we cant afford to loose Kashmir even if we have to sustain unbearable loses. As if Kashmir will forcefully absorb by India then It will be slow and poisons death for Pakistan. And we will prefer Honorable death over the disgrace. And for later case we will assure that India will also die with us. So there will be no Union Territory who will rule Kashmir.

Realistically what options do Pakistan has? You guys did the same with the part of Kashmir you control pushed Punjabis, changed culture and what not and now are crying wolf when we are doing the needful for peace and prosperity of Kashmir.
 
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Front line soldiers:
50 infantry divisions with over 1 Million soldiers.
7,500,000 Ak47 armed infantry men
2,000,000 with LMGs
50,000 with Anti tank and Manpads .
Training 9 months.

Supply division:
1 Million lightly armed supply divisions for logistical support


Manufacturing:
5 million plus manufacturers of arms
10million 7.62 mm Ak47
1 Million 12.7 mm heavy machine guns
100,000 anti tank weapons and MANPADs

Medical care:
Portable embedded hospitals.
10,000 surgeons
50,000 nurses

POW areas:
5,000,000 indian POWs in Kashmir camps

Timeframe:
1 Aug 2020, plan for 3 months wars to liberate Kashmir.
Liberate Kashmir valley and Jammu by Oct1
Willing to take 80% casualties per unit


Expected casualties in enemy camps before retreat:
50% damage to Indian units before their retreat or surrender.

Tactics and Strategy:
To be continued
 
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Guys who are making lists please also factor in IMF, CPEC and other loan repayment schedules. Else you will run out of $$s on day 1 itself.
 
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Millions are living without clean drinking water, the biggest city in Pak have no waste management system which results in trash all over, literacy rate is laughable, loans are taken to keep the economy running, and worst is that image of the country worldwide is not very favorable, now, I am all for a country defending their sovereignty, but right now war is not something that will do good to the country. Raising the Kashmir issue diplomatically and on every forum, raising awareness and humiliating Ganga on every level possible is what Pak should pursue, and at the same time, not get distracted from the main focus of government which is to fix the country and make it sustainable
 
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Vs. India it's really not that simple. While many think of asymmetrical warfare as the solution, I don't agree that it is. It was one thing for the US to fight against the Taliban and the various groups in Iraq in an asymmetrical warfare situation, as they were solely aimed at one thing-getting the US to say "enough is enough" and quit-and that took nearly two decades to get done.
With India, it's right on their border. Lose AJK and they loose out on water resources, they loose out on a relatively underpopulated area that they can add to, and they have better troop mobility and strategic depth at lower cost than the US would have ever been able to project.
So how does Pakistan win this war? Tough question. You would have to get the Indian army to be forced to respond to a second front SOMEWHERE. Whether that's China going after the chicken's neck in eastern India, whether that's getting a Kashmiri or Sikh uprising in AJK or Indian Punjab, there has to be some form of internal disunity within India. If Kashmir is going to rebel, they have to do so of their OWN accord.
I don't think a conventional war would necessarily favor Pakistan. India is simply too popular and has too much money to run out of resources, whereas Pakistan is trying to rebuild its economy as we speak. While I've seen the talk of Chinese coming to Pakistan's aid, even assuming that happens will likely mean air power, not ground forces-the Karakoram highway isn't going to favor the crossing of hundreds of thousands of troops and their associated mechanized divisions-it's simply not big enough and you know that India will target it to prevent Chinese intervention.
Pakistan would be best suited to wage a war of resource deprivation. India is fielding a ton of forces in the area, and they have more land to defend. Use strategic strikes to eliminate munitions depots and fuel supplies-while both can be replaced from reserves, eventually a large army will need a lot of supplies, and given long enough, from outside of India. Without fuel and bullets, missiles, and things to fire, the Indian army will eventually end up being an empty gun that can be taken en mass. Stationing as many submarines as possible near Mumbai and other Indian naval ports may check the INS for a time, although the Pakistan Navy doesn't have fleet or the air support to maintain a blockade against India.
This will also aide Pakistan's cause as India is already looking quite bad on the international front. Given long enough, the war will lose support within the ordinary Indian, who will wonder why Pakistan hasn't been overrun yet seeing as they"re "technologically inferior".
Forming multiple militias would also help. Pakistan as a country has more gun culture than even the US-most people own a gun of some kind. Having militia garrisons at every major city frees up the Pakistan Army to fight India at the front lines, and also would make the cost of victory for India very, very high, even if they break through the Pakistani lines. Those militias could also be used to open a second front, assuming a strategic airlift capability is available. This is actually where China could help the most. They currently have 29 strategic airlifters, 22 IL-76 and 7 Xian Y-7s. I'm not sure how many forces they could fit, but with air support they could potentially land troops behind Indian lines to cause a lot of trouble.


Based on second front argument, for the last couple of years I have been a big proponent of Pakistan Marine which is a 15 thousand strong force almost a Div size to have landing crafts, Wasp Class landing crafts to land a Div size force at a new front, an economically strong area like mumbai to hurt india the most (between Gujrat and Marhastra coast). that will relieve pressure on Pakistan punjab.. Wasp equipped with VTOLs, helis and drones.

One catch, have to counter Indian Navy with punity.
 
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Gents, let me be clear about one thing. Like all of you, I hate war, humanity loses when people cant put their egos on the side and reach a conclusion. 70 years have passed without delivering justice to people of Kashmir. There is no option left besides going to war.
This thread is not about pros and cons of war but about two objectives

1) what will it take to liberate Kashmir
2) what will it take to put subz hilal parcham on red fort.

Your pick 1 or 2 , rules are simple. Describe what will you do as a leader to reach your objectives...

Some points to ponder..

1) wars are won by moving reserves and material at the right time
2) number is reserves to put pressure or to relieve pressure, like a chess game
3) firepower and the speed with which you can deliver

What will you do from galvanizing civilians, to manufacturing, to armed young men, how big, where will u focus and how will you get to your objectives ...

War sometime is a mean for lasting peace for next Generation.. I will share my input soon..

Here are the following points which Pakistan must pursue and achieve, in order to bring itself to a position of power, whereby it can liberate Kashmir;

1. Revamp, standardize and streamline the Education System throughout the country. Ensuring the curriculum/syllubi are qualitatively superior to equip our young that will practically propel them into the real world. Schools and Universities in Pakistan should establish a robust balance between sustainability and equality, based on MERIT, not money.

2. Thorough reform of the Law Enforcement Agencies, their function, their rule-book, their accountability and their objectives. To equip them with the correct skills and knowledge in eliminating crime. Their education, their wages and their well-being must be looked after just as it is in Pakistan's military.

3. To isolate, make independent and uninfluenced, the Justice System of Pakistan, by establishing a task force which ensures no influence, bribes, coersion or threat is posed to the Pakistan Justice System. Political elite, should be CUT-OFF at the knees, neutralizing them from influencing the Justice System.

4. A precision, surgical crackdown on all corrupt politicians, bureaucrats and civil servants that have degraded the state institutions of Pakistan. Prosecuting them, confiscating all their ill-gotten wealth, cutting off all their assistance recieved from foreign parties. Imprisoning them for life without parole.

5. Establishing a sustainable peace in Afghanistan, whereby the American-NATO military machine vacates the country, permanently. Introducing a gradual trade with the country, and inviting the Afghans (if they so wish), to join China's BRI.

6. Ensuring the successful completetion of CPEC and constant monitoring that it functions at optimum levels. Then introducing business plan, for private sector (Pakistani ONLY) to take full advantage of CPEC with new businesses and trade for export growth.

7. Full spectrum crackdown on investigating and prosecuting any News Networks or Entertainment Channels which have foreign funding. Pakistan's Media Industry MUST be funded and owned by Pakistanis, NO ONE ELSE!!! Any owner of tv-channels found with foreign links, shall be shutdown and prosecuted with the severest of punishments.

8. Generating a powerful and effective drive to plant and maintain billions of trees in Pakistan. To populate and make arable the province of Baluchistan. Trees are imperative to Pakistan's survival and a gauntlet against india's "Water Terrorism."

9. For Kashmir to be Liberated, the first military objective MUST be to retake ALL OF SIACHEN back. Establishing a continuous border between Pakistan and China with zero indian territory in the between. Siachen sits between Pakistan's Gilgit-Baltistan and China's Aksai Chin. This is by the most important strategic point which Pakistan military needs to capture.

10. Pakistan Navy needs to be infused with establishing a full spectrum of combat ship designing, nautical engineering, metalurgist and etc. It is imperative that this is achieved to a greater degree, so that Pakistan can absorb transfer of technology on practical basis, not in psuedonym terms.

11. Pakistan Military must establish a comprehensive and complete WRIT over Baluchistan. In doing so, strategically Pakistan has an abundance of geographical depth to impale india's military offensives. Loss of strategic depth is what impedes Pakistan's ability to effectively smash indian aggression.

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These are but a few points, condensed to give you a birds eye view what MUST be done to bring about strength and power to Pakistan. Whereby we can be in an unstoppable position to liberate Kashmir.

Over all, one thing IS ABOVE ALL ELSE .... DO NOT FORGET THAT YOU ARE A MUSLIM FIRST, by virtue of which, you are a Pakistani.
 
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Well, this isn't much detailed but here is what I think we should do.

I believe that a limited warfare or a guerrilla warfare in IOK would be ideal for us and we can f**k India in IOK but going for an all out, total war with India right now is probably not a very good idea when we do not have much foreign exchange reserves, oil reserves etc.

We should learn from World War 2 and especially from Germany and USSR; how they planned for war and how they went against each other.

For an all out total war with India, I think that we should prepare for 10 years. When we have done planning and preparing in 10 years, then go to war with India and throw at them with everything we got.

Here is what I think we should do in those 10 years.

1) Removing every Internal weakness

That means burning this entire corrupt democracy, corrupt 19th century colonial Anglo-Saxon Judicial System, corrupt colonial police system, colonial Bureaucratic system, obsolete education system, economic system, corrupt media and going for Presidential form of governance having sweeping powers doing and doing sweeping reforms in education system, economic system, taxation, civil service and writing a new constitution etc...........

2) Strategic Depth

Pakistan do not have a strategic depth whereas India have a strategic depth. Which means in war, lack of depth can be catastrophic. To overcome this weakness, Afghanistan is the most ideal place for us. We should annex Afghanistan outright or make Afghanistan practically our undeclared 5th province like it was during Taliban rule in late 90's. Either a soft merger or annexation. After that make air force, army bases over there as well.

3) Conscription

Open conscription and start training youth after they reach certain age.

4) Firearm licences

Open firearm licences for everyone and give them compulsory training as well.

5) Preparing for Industrialized warfare

We should go for complete industrialization and make massive massive war industries to prepare for an industrialized warfare.

We should turn our entire economy into war economy.

Increase the tanks, APCs, UAVs/UCAVs, JF 17 production, arms and ammunition, missiles production etc 1000 times over. Procure naval equipment form China. Try to make every thing 100% indigenous.

What we lack in manufacturing, setup joint ventures; if not then buy the military equipment and then do reverse engineering. Start copying/reverse engineering anything we get our hands on like e.g. AMRAAMs, F-16s, helos etc.................

@Pakhtoon yum @Armchair @Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee
 
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My very dear Pak,


It saddens me to say that the time for preparation has past. The Hybridwar of last ten years was designed to this end...with planted #EconomicTerrorists made sure that the entire economic skeleton of the country is near to abyss.

With Debt that is such that redemption after redemption is going to keep us busy for the next ten years if we manage to grow at 7% annually. The Ugly Truth.

We are not fighting the GanguDaesh alone. This much needs to be clear to us all.

Regardless, we fight with the means, machine and men we have.... here in we need an innovation of TotalWar. I am sure you have read it.

TotalWar with all vectors integerated....within built-in continous improvement, evolution mechanisms.

The Key is to secure the western borders .... CPEC needs to be protected. HK protests are the beginning... PRC is also facing Hybridwar... of a very different kind.

It is all about Anarkali ... hopefully, it blossoms earlier than later.

Regarding, StrategicDepth... our entire fighting doctorine now is based on non availability of any such thing... it never was to begin with.. more like a theoratic excercise.

An enemy would NEVER allow time to recover and become stronger... logical.

We must prepare our people.

Mangus

@Khafee @Dazzler @Shane thoughts lads?
I would even be happy if we manage some toned down version of an amalgamation of what @Reddington and @Nasr have suggested. We need unity, focus and resolve instead of being dragged down by Khotaism that Modi loves so much to be on top in Pakistan.

But the outcome of the current situation depends on what happens after lock down is lifted. Pakistan, for the time being, seems set to bleed India even more with a million more cuts.
 
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Pakistan on its own cant win it. Its army is not that big. It has problems on western border which will definitely intensify with more terror attacks. If Pakistan is successful in entering Indian Kashmir, India can open another front across our border.

The most likely scenario that will give a chance of success will be involvement of China. If China and Pakistan attack together and Khalistan movement is given a fillip, it will spread Indians out. Taking Kashmir is not that difficult then as whole population is against Indian occupation.

With Sikhs on our side, Punjab border could be secured. So that leaves the border of Rajasthan to defend along with Kashmir.
 
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For Fools still betting on Aman ki Asha.

quote-if-history-teaches-us-anything-it-teaches-that-simple-minded-appeasement-or-wishful-ronald-reagan-103-70-00.jpg


upload_2019-8-18_20-37-12.jpeg
 
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Pakistan worked hard to reach those two objectives ...
the enemy is big, powerful 200 pound gorilla, you are nimble, need stamina and speed to defeat it ...
How will you fight this war? Man power a mill plus, with heavy arms, Anti tank for hitting heavy targets ??Manpads ? Short range missiles ?
Where will you thrust in enemy territory , terrain is difficult, lightly armed and nimble ? With some heavy armed infantry men ?
Plan? Execution, time ?

Keep in mind your enemy will react fiercely with multiple fronts.. how much deep can u go?? Indus River as last boundary ??? Think ???



Well to strategize.
I would open the Kashmir front by capturing posts in the cover of darkness and doing long range arty strikes to pave the way for further advance and to beat incoming retaliation on the ground, while keeping aerial and strategic (non nuclear) arsenal silent for a bit until the other side shows aggression.
Then open several smaller front down the delta and the desert areas while keeping Punjab silent.
Followed by full aerial thrust across all sectors to neutralize enemy froward bases and aerial vehicles.
Once the enemy is heavily engaged in those sectors, will launch a full two peered thrust towards Delhi.
Take or surround Delhi and your destroy the morale and fighting will of the most of the indian combatants and throw their strategists into comma. Then Kashmir and several other lands will come easy pickings if a MAD doesn't happen.
 
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