What's new

Wakeup Lahore - A MUST WATCH

Thanks for agreeing with me RobbieS....it will indeed solve a lot of problems...just as there is european union...why cant OIC do the same....and why cant muslim countries have one political leader...atleast this will help people in arab world to get rid of dictators


There is dire need for a strong Muslim Block economically and militarily too. Keeping in view the world grand strategic scenario we need to have a strong block as its only Muslim countries that are aimed by all anti-Islam nations.

Russians or Chinese are not at much risk at this point,
 
There is dire need for a strong Muslim Block economically and militarily too. Keeping in view the world grand strategic scenario we need to have a strong block as its only Muslim countries that are aimed by all anti-Islam nations.

Russians or Chinese are not at much risk at this point,

Jana,

only Pakistan is at risk at this point. Even Iran is comparatively safe. The rest of the middle east were never at risk. Russians, Chinese, Iranians(shias), KSA...are safe and sound. Infact, they are actively preparing themselves for the post-pakistan or talibani-pakistan scenario.
 
Speaking lies or speaking falsehood is one of the biggest sins in Islam. How can a person (understandably to "boost" the morale of the Pakistani youth) do any benefit to Islam by resorting to this? Let alone Islam he can't even lead Pakistan if he doesn't speak atleast the plain truth.

The concept of attaching an ideology of Pakistan was started during the Zia era and ZH seems to have picked up that mantle. Before that this was not there. Moreover, what about Muhammed Iqbal who repeatedly denied his approval of the Pakistan scheme by Chaudry Rahmat Ali?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/37025-iqbals-letter-daily-times-london.html
Ayesha Jalal's "The sole spokesman" along with "The idea of Pakistan and Iqbal, a disclaimer" is a must read for Zaid Hamid.

Islam is a universal religion and Iqbal's poetry is an expression of the universality of Islam. Just like all religions are meant to be universal in nature. They are not reduced within specific boundaries or ethnicities. Even the word ummah used by the prophet referred to the entire humanity till the last day. As muslims we were instructed to care and help the less unfortunate among the ummah and that would include muslims as well as non muslims.

So I would expect any muslim infact any human to feel the pain and suffering for muslims being persecuted in Palestine for example. While at the same time if for examples there are Hindus being persecuted in Fiji or South Africa or Christians in darfur dying of hunger and thirst I would expect any human including muslims to feel restless as well. While for non muslims it i may not be a part of their faith, for muslims care for the ummah is a part of their faith. But HOW we help and care for the unfortunate is whats important.

And seriously the biggest problem with muslims is not that they don't have a "Islamic" country or there military is not the best. The problem is they have let themselves away from the values of Islam. As an example, Prophet Muhammad in his entire life fought only three main battles, infact in the first 13 years of his life he refrained from any violence. People accepted Islam because of the akhlaq and dealings with muslims, not because of their military prowess. IT is this quality that should be inculcated first. How much importance are given to honesty, to holding up agreements, to not cheating and bribing and feeding the poor and needy and fighting corruption not only among politicians but in the army and intelligence agencies as well. What about fighting for the rights of people who are have been "disappeared" by the intelligence agencies. Is this any less important?

And maybe ZH who doesn't seem to be a religious scholar of any sort but likes to portray himself otherwise doesn't know that there are numerous hadiths that are in praise of Hind. The classic book "Subhatul Marjan Fi Asare Hindustan" discusses various Hadith and Tafaseer (Quranic exegeses) dealing with this. Here is the english tranaltion of the article written in early 1940s by a religious scholar of the Jamiat Ulema i Hind.
India Our Land and Its Virtues, The Milli Gazette, Vol.3 No.19, MG65 (1-15 Oct 02)
India our land & its virtues, The Milli Gazette, Vol.3 No.20, MG66 (16-31 Oct 02)


Besides I can't believe any Indian muslim or otherwise would "invite" ZH to regurgitate all these lies. Maybe some pretending to be an Indian Muslim because that would really boost his ego, or when there are so many lies in his talks its hard to say what is and what is not true. Making these claims is insulting to Indian muslims, especially because he doesn't even have the gut to accept or apologies atleast for his wrong statements for the mumbai attacks even till now.

I do hope that Lahore and Pakistan wakes up, but if ZH is the one who is doing the awakening, then I feel that there is a pretty good chance of things going towards the Zia era and it wont be long before political Islamic parties like JI and JUI hijack the constituency (although small but mainly among the youth) that revers him.
 
Last edited:
Ayesha Jalal's "The sole spokesman" along with "The idea of Pakistan and Iqbal, a disclaimer" is a must read for Zaid Hamid.
Ayesha Jalal's book is not more than a BS. Like your Indian Jaswant's Book:disagree:
 
People talking about muslim ummah are living in a fanstasy land, which will never come true because of the following reasons.

1. Rich arabs dont even treat other muslims as equals
2. There are 2 many territorial disputes between muslim counttires around the world - Iran & Iraq , Iraq & Kuwait , Saudi & Yemen , Pakistan & Afghanistan , Malaysia & Indonesia etc.,

The difference you have pointed out are political differences than ideological. Your wishful thinking is not limited to you but every single Hindu or Zionist would want so.. but whatever is written is written. It was written that Muslims will be as valueless as dry "leaves of the tree"and it is happening now, but we are also told that we will be the victorious force and we shell rule the world before the day of Judgement. Its the political fraction of every country that is at differences with other Muslim country but if you can understand that Ummah is comprised of Muslims and People and not Politician, you would not say what you just said above.
 
whatever is written is written. It was written that Muslims will be as valueless as dry "leaves of the tree"and it is happening now, but we are also told that we will be the victorious force and we shell rule the world before the day of Judgement. Its the political fraction of every country that is at differences with other Muslim country but if you can understand that Ummah is comprised of Muslims and People and not Politician, you would not say what you just said above.

Yes, ummah is definitely a feasible idea. But the correct definition of ummah is necessary. The point is that definition of ummah is different for different nations and peoples. Let me explain.

Shias want ummah. But they want an ummah, such thy are the rulers and others are below them.

Sunnis want the ummah but they desire and work for an ummah where sunnis are predominant.

There is also a regional factor. The countries from middle-east, who are the ones that are powerful and rich enough to work for ummah, want ummah where the middle eastern people hold the sway. The muslims outside of middle-east, like Pakistan, Indonesia, India, Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh..etc will be ruled by the middle-eastern people.

The muslims of Pakistan, mostly gullible, hope that the ummah will be formed where all muslims will be equal.

Therefore, the definition of ummah is different for different people. The ummah desired by middle-eastern countries is feasible due to their petro-dollars and influence.
 
Ejaz you are presenting reference of hadiths in praise of Hind then do remember the Ghazwa-e-Hind hadith too.

above all if you are calling current day Hindustan as Hind?? :)

As far as philosphy of Iqbal about the ummat or Pakistan then do watch Iqbak Ka Pakistan seriese. we have clearly explores his ideaology and its a pitty that people here do not presents his role and efforts for creation and ideology of Pakistan.

Mr Zaid Hamid had clearly and in details discussed Iqbal's great role in uniting the Muslims specially of sub-continent through his philosphy.

BTW Mr Zaid had never portrayed himself as religiouse scholar person. He only talks about the defence related links and roles of Muslim leaders.
 
There is dire need for a strong Muslim Block economically and militarily too. Keeping in view the world grand strategic scenario we need to have a strong block as its only Muslim countries that are aimed by all anti-Islam nations.

Russians or Chinese are not at much risk at this point,

Can you please elaborate on the last sentence?
 
a small question

pakistanis are part of the ummah

palestinians are part of ummah

israelis are giving pain to the palestinians

so its logical to infer that israelis are giving pain to the ummah

pakistanis have nuclear bombs

so ummah has nuclear bomb

so why has the ummah not used the nuclear bomb to get rid of the country causing pain to the ummah? the iranians openly claim to want to do so, just that they cant.

the "islamic bomb" has not been used inspite of so many possible targets and just as many reasons to use it. why is the ummah not using it?

if the ummah should be so united and pakistan was formed on those lines, why didnt pakistan go into agreement with iran or afganistan immediately after independence to form a larger united muslim country for the muslim ummah.




now before u go master chief with my poor bottom. i am not war mongering here or saying that the nuke should be used. i am trying to point out the hypocrisy of the ummah.
 
Ejaz you are presenting reference of hadiths in praise of Hind then do remember the Ghazwa-e-Hind hadith too.
Yes the one hadith in nasai (one of the six book of hadiths) that is music to the ears of ZH isn't it? Just one logical question, ghazwa is a sigular word, gazawat is plural. Since the hadith mentions the singular word, that means it mentions only ONE battle. This according majority consensus from not only Indian but ever Arab ulemas is that it has been fulfilled.

Infact, let me just link you to an important article by a Darul uloom Deoban alumni who discusses this very propaganda tool where gullible pakistanis are recruited for "Jihad". Infact you should read the whole article if you have time.

Coming back to the question of the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind, some aspects of the report deserve particular scrutiny. Firstly, as mentioned earlier, this report is mentioned only in the collection of al-Nasai from among the six collections of Hadith which most Sunnis regard, to varying degrees, as canonical. However, considering the merits or rewards of the ghazwat ul-hind that it talks about, it ought, one might think, to have been narrated by many more companions of the Prophet. But that, as it curiously happens, is not the case.

Secondly, and this follows from above, it is possible that this hadith report is not genuine and that it might have been manufactured in the period of the Ummayad Caliphs to suit and justify their own political purposes and expansionist deigns. On the other hand, if this hadith report is indeed genuine—which it might well be—in my view, the battle against India that it predicted was fulfilled in the early Islamic period itself, and is not something that will happen in the future. This, in fact, is the opinion of the majority of the ulema, qualified Islamic scholars. And this view accords with reason as well. It is quite likely that the ghazwat ul-hind that this report predicted took the form of the attack by an Arab Muslim force on Thana and Bharuch, in coastal western India , in the 15th year or the Islamic calendar in the reign of the Caliph Umar. Equally possibly, it could have been fulfilled in the form of the missionary efforts of some of the Prophet’s companions soon after, in the reign of the Caliphs Uthman and Ali, in Sindh and Gujarat . Some other ulema consider this hadith to have been fulfilled in the form of the attack and occupation of Sindh by Arab Muslims led by Muhammad bin Qasim in the 93rd year of the Islamic calendar, which then facilitated the spread of Islam in the country. This might well be the case, for the hadith report about the ghazwat ul-hind contained in the Masnad of Ahmad ibn Hanbal, a well-known collection of Hadith narratives attributed to the Prophet, mentions that the Muslim army that would attack India would be sent in the direction of Sindh and Hind.

Thirdly, this hadith mentions only a single or particular battle (ghazwa), and not a series of continuing battles, unlike what the author of the article in the ‘Muhaddith’( a pakistani magazine), referred to above, echoing the arguments of Pakistani self-styled jihadists, claims.

Fourthly, it must be remembered that it would have been very easy for Muslim conquerors of India in the past, men like Mahmud of Ghazni, Shihabuddin Ghori, Timur, Nadir Shah and so on, to present the hadith about the ghazwat ul-hind and wield it as a weapon to justify their attacks on the country. The corrupt ulema associated with their courts could well have suggested this to them had they wished. However, no such mention is made about this in history books. In the eighteenth century, the well-known Islamic scholar Shah Waliullah of Delhi invited the Afghan warlord Ahmad Shah Abdali to invade India and dispel the Marathas, which he accepted, but yet Shah Waliullah, too, did not use this hadith as a pretext for this.

It is also pertinent to examine how some well-known contemporary Indian ulema look at this hadith report. Maulana Abdul Hamid Numani, a leading figure of the Jamiat ul-Ulema-i Hind, opines that this hadith was fulfilled at the time of the ‘Four Righteous Caliphs’ of the Sunnis, soon after the demise of the Prophet Muhammad, when several companions of the Prophet came to India, mainly in order to spread Islam. Mufti Sajid Qasmi, who teaches at the Dar ul-Uloom in Deoband, is also of the same opinion, although he believes that it might also refer to the invasion of Sindh by the Arabs under Muhammad bin Qasim in the eighth century. On the other hand, Maulana Mufti Mushtaq Tijarvi of the Jamaat-i Islami Hind believes that it is possible that this hadith report is not genuine at all and that it might have been fabricated at the time of Muhammad bin Qasim’s invasion of Sindh in order to justify it.

Whatever the case might be, the misuse by radical groups of this hadith report to spearhead war in Kashmir in the name of so-called jihad and to foment conflict between India and Pakistan is tragic, to say the least. It is nothing sort of a crime against God and the Prophet. In their worldviews and in their actions as well, the self-styled jihadist outfits seem to have gone the way of the Khawarij, a group that emerged in the early period of Islam and who were rejected by other Muslims. The Khawarij believed that they alone were Muslims and that all others, including those who called themselves Muslims, were infidels and fit to be killed. With reference to the Khawarij, the Prophet predicted that they would depart from Islam in the same way as an arrow flies out of a bow. About the Khawarij the Caliph Ali mentioned that they take the word of truth and turn it into falsehood (kalimatu haqqin urida beha al-batil). This he said in the context of the Khawarij misinterpreting the Quran and claiming that Ali and his followers were infidels who deserved to be killed.

It is imperative, and extremely urgent, for Muslim scholars, particularly the ulema, to take strict notice of, and stridently oppose the radical self-styled jihadists, who are distorting and misunderstandings Islamic teachings, following in the footsteps of the Khawarij of the past, and spreading death and destruction in the name of Islam. Jihad, properly understood, is a struggle to put an end to strife and conflict, not to create or foment it, as is being done today. The general public, particularly Muslims themselves, should be made aware of the dangerous deviation of the self-styled jihadists and the horrendous implications of their acts and views. In this regard, a major responsibility rests with the ulema of India and Pakistan . These days, ulema groups in India are very actively involved in organizing conferences and holding rallies seeking to defend themselves and Islam from the charges terrorism leveled against them. This is a very welcome thing. However, they must also stridently speak out against and clearly and unambiguously expose and denounce the self-styled soldiers of Islam who are promoting terrorism in the name of Islam. At the same time, it is also urgent to promote re-thinking of some medieval notions of jihad, such as that of offensive jihad, which does not actually have any Islamic legitimacy. This is essential for Muslims to live in today’s times and to come to terms with democracy and pluralism. Simply verbally defending Muslims and Islam from the charges of terrorism is, clearly, not enough. Nor is it adequate to simply condemn terrorism in very general terms. The truth is, and this cannot be disputed, that today there is also a pressing need to unleash a ‘jihad’ against the self-styled jihadist outfits themselves. And in this jihad, undoubtedly, the ulema and Muslim intellectuals have a central role to play and a major responsibility to shoulder.

MADRASA REFORMS IN INDIA: January 2009

Maulana Waris Mazhari, a graduate of the Dar ul-Uloom at Deoband, is the editor of the Delhi-based ‘Tarjuman Dar ul-Uloom’, the official organ of the Deoband Graduates’ Association. He can be contacted on w.mazhari@gmail.com


above all if you are calling current day Hindustan as Hind?? :)
No its not just present day India, but includes parts of Pakistan as well. According to some it also includes the pashtun belt of Pakistan and Afghanistan. At the time of the prophet there was no Pakistan. The other "country" in that region was Khorasan that refers to mainly northern afghanistan and central asian countries. Again there is slight difference of opinion on the exact boundaries.
So ironically, even the hadiths of the prophet refers to India and Pakistan as a single country, and ofcourse the blessings and virtues discussed in the article above applies to both.


As far as philosphy of Iqbal about the ummat or Pakistan then do watch Iqbak Ka Pakistan seriese. we have clearly explores his ideaology and its a pitty that people here do not presents his role and efforts for creation and ideology of Pakistan.

Mr Zaid Hamid had clearly and in details discussed Iqbal's great role in uniting the Muslims specially of sub-continent through his philosphy.
Iqbal ka Pakistan is Zaid Hamid's interpretation. Why does he not read Iqbal's speech of 1930 and then comment on wether he advocated a case for Pakistan. Infact, have you read his speech of 1930 in its entirety? Please do and then tell me what he thought about India.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00islamlinks/txt_iqbal_1930.html#02

There are his letters which clearly state that he was against the Pakistan scheme. Not for, not even neutral but against. I have referenced a book and even article posted on defence.pk about this.
Iqbal was certainly a great poet and philosopher. But why wrongly atrribute things to him when there are clear historical references otherwise. You can't build a strong house on a false foundation.

Infact, I do hope that Pakistanis find and research the TRUE Iqbal and find out that its not Zaid Hamid's distorted view of him. Because ZH can't till now decide wether Jinnah was secular or not and he thinks that even Indians and Pakistanis don't look alike and don't even speak the same language, so with these statements, how can anyone trust on more important matters like philosophy of Iqbal or the future of Pakistan.

BTW Mr Zaid had never portrayed himself as religiouse scholar person. He only talks about the defence related links and roles of Muslim leaders.
Yes, and that is why he likes to quote the ghazwatulhind hadith every time he has the opportunity to do so. Anyways, I don't want to discuss wether or not he uses religion for political purposes in his talk shows because that is quite obvious for anyone to see.

Just think critically and analyze what he says and who he criticizes (politicians, mullas, beuracats e.t.c) and even who he never criticizes the army and intelligence agencies- even though they are also responsible in a major part of the situation today in Pakistan.

Bottom line is how honest he is, at least about facts that are plainly documented. A dishonest person can never be a proper leader particularly for muslims.
 
Sir the hadith....is not the one talking about invasion of Muhammad Bin Qasim on subcontinent....its different...the group which is successful in this will go towards syria and join Jesus (PBUH) against anti christ forces.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom