Wake up and smell the failure

[Greywolf]

Yes. I am the author of the said piece - "where we are".

 

[Spring Onion]

Yes. I am the author of the said piece - "where we are".

Hassan let us take up few points in your write up.

1. the sentiments with regard to economy of the two countries: Yes we agree with you.

2. Your claims about China and Islamic elements here is as authentic as any report from Indian media. One such claim was about arrest of Pakistani Muslim students (read islamic militants as Indian orange media called them) further claiming that they were planing attacks during Beijing Olympics. this false claim fell flat on its face. It was a big lie India used for propaganda.

So Hassan the main point here someone already mentioned is that You have amalgamated many ideas into one piece even when it made no sense viz viz sequence


3. Pakistan has many problems we have to go a long way but comparing it with India a country that has faced no world proxies, that has a huge market and many more factors, Is not fair.


4. Pakistan being a country with Muslim majority is already a reason for many hostile reactions from some key world powers. Now we can not just simply have abrupt change for appeasing them For any abrupt change is very short lived and damaging.


5. We all are against extremism. and i believe current situation is great opportunity for learning the lesson the hard way and it will be good in the long term.

 

[EjazR]

Let me jump in while I expect YLH to give his own reply

Hassan let us take up few points in your write up.

The author is YLH not Hassan Khan. Hassan Khan is the author of the first article

1. the sentiments with regard to economy of the two countries: Yes we agree with you.

2. Your claims about China and Islamic elements here is as authentic as any report from Indian media. One such claim was about arrest of Pakistani Muslim students (read islamic militants as Indian orange media called them) further claiming that they were planing attacks during Beijing Olympics. this false claim fell flat on its face. It was a big lie India used for propaganda.

So Hassan the main point here someone already mentioned is that You have amalgamated many ideas into one piece even when it made no sense viz viz sequence

The point was the Lal Masjid attacks and the Chinese pressure on Musharraf and Co. to show action against extremists who were attacking Chinese citizens. This is apart from the fact that Uighur nationalists were also taking refuge in Pakistan and forementing unrest in Xinjian/ East Turkistan. There is a direct connection with Chinese worry with extremism in Pakistan just like other countries like US or India has

3. Pakistan has many problems we have to go a long way but comparing it with India a country that has faced no world proxies, that has a huge market and many more factors, Is not fair.

Actually India faced more challenges than Pakistan. It did face proxies as well both from China and Pakistan. It had a more diverse ethinic and religious groups than Pakistan and much more pervasive poverty as well.

4. Pakistan being a country with Muslim majority is already a reason for many hostile reactions from some key world powers. Now we can not just simply have abrupt change for appeasing them For any abrupt change is very short lived and damaging.

Pakistan despite being a muslim majority country had close ties with the US all the way to the 90s. Infact, the best period of US-Pakistan relations have always been when a military dictatorship was in power.

The point is, its not the "muslimness" that is the main reason, but the threat of terrorists plots that concerns the international community because right or wrongly it is percieved that most of these plots continue to be planned within Pakistan. And this perception is the reason why there is "hostility".

5. We all are against extremism. and i believe current situation is great opportunity for learning the lesson the hard way and it will be good in the long term.

Being against extremism means agains extremism in ALL its form. It includes Afghan Taliban, LeT, Hizb, LeJ e.t.c You can't pick and choose.

 

[Tin Man]

India was not always a huge market or lucrative economy. It was economically and to an extent strategically inferior to Pakistan up until the 1990's.

 

[Developereo]

our super patriots have invented another self-defeating narrative. They want us to engage another 50 years in another mini-cold war around an imagined zero-sum game that pits Pakistan and China against the US and India. Even if the Americans were naïve enough to hold such ‘strategic’ hogwash as a legitimate view, neither the Indians nor the Chinese are going to buy into it

Yes, all these Americans since LBJ's White House all the way to Obama and Hillary who openly cite China as the reason for American engagement in Asia are just misunderstood.

America's anti-China obsession is just a fantasy of Pakistani 'super patriots'.

The US is courting India in order to contain China -- plain and simple. And India is playing along because it shares the same aim. There is no grand 'Asian brotherhood' in the offing, although saying so will sell articles to Indian audiences.

 

[Greywolf]

Frankly I am not sure what it is about the article that makes you think that I am suggesting a grand Asian brotherhood. It is just that Indians know that China is on the rise...

India is playing along with the pre-containment scenario because it wants to overcome some technological restrictions and nothing else.

Instead of the usual kneejerks try and realise that Pakistan needs to get its house in order and I consider all issues linked. I am a patriot of this country who is not living abroad and is entirely invested in its progress and well being... my writings have seldom gone down well with Indian audiences... so it is shameless of you to suggest that I am trying to earn any brownie points with them.

 

[Last Hope]

We arent failing so we dont want to smell failure !!

 

[T-Faz]

I think Jana has mixed up the first article which is written by Hassan Khan and the one I posted by Yasser Latif Hamdani.

As for Kakgeta, I think he was referring to Hassan Khan in regards to his comments but I am not so sure.

 

[justanobserver]

It is just that Indians know that China is on the rise...

India is playing along with the pre-containment scenario because it wants to overcome some technological restrictions and nothing else.

Mere muh ke baat cheen lee

 

[Spring Onion]

India is playing along with the pre-containment scenario because it wants to overcome some technological restrictions and nothing else.

how innocent.

my writings have seldom gone down well with Indian audiences... so it is shameless of you to suggest that I am trying to earn any brownie points with them.

I dont know which one are you so i cant comment. as i dont know if i have read what you write.

 

[Spring Onion]

I think Jana has mixed up the first article which is written by Hassan Khan and the one I posted by Yasser Latif Hamdani.

As for Kakgeta, I think he was referring to Hassan Khan in regards to his comments but I am not so sure.

Yeah i think you guys are talking about two different persons i was replying to starting post

 

[Ahmad]

We arent failing so we dont want to smell failure !!

No disrespect buddy, but it depends on how you define FAILUIRE. The article posted by Benny makes more sense to me than your statement.

 

[T-Faz]

Yes, all these Americans since LBJ's White House all the way to Obama and Hillary who openly cite China as the reason for American engagement in Asia are just misunderstood.

Engagement can mean multiple things, why do you not be more precise as to what the American leaders have been statting since the times of Lyndon B Jonhson. American engagement in Asia is varied and of multiple reasons. The middle east, south asia and far east are separated by US according to different levels of engagement and cooperation as part of their foreign policy.

America's anti-China obsession is just a fantasy of Pakistani 'super patriots'.

If Americans were so anti-Chinese as some our own people make them out to be, there would not be the level of coopearation they have as economic partners. Similarly the Chinese and Americans at this stage have similar goals for our country, not the opposite designs as frequently heard in some quarters.

The US is courting India in order to contain China -- plain and simple. And India is playing along because it shares the same aim. There is no grand 'Asian brotherhood' in the offing, although saying so will sell articles to Indian audiences.

If the US wanted to contain China, it would have taxed every China made import heavily causing China massive losses in trade. After all US is China's biggest export market and it has been able to continously enlarge its global power over the years with assistance from US in the form of economic cooperation.

 

[T-Faz]

Yeah i think you guys are talking about two different persons i was replying to starting post

The first one is harsh criticism of our policies and the current effects of it. Basically its demeaning the nation by pointing to its shortcomings in this current period.

The one by YLH is much more precise and well structured, pointing to our failures and the reasons for it while also providing suggestions for a better future as a nation.

 

[kak1978]

India was not always a huge market or lucrative economy. It was economically and to an extent strategically inferior to Pakistan up until the 1990's.

That was because India was a closed economy and it was busy building its institutions and democracy, while Pakistan was concentrating on its economic progress and in the process ignoring the fundamental institutions required to sustain the economic progress. In a way being a closed economy for the first 50 years worked well for India, to make some tough decisions.