Wake up and smell the failure

[Mirza Jatt]

first over smart poster.. wants that daily article.
Ah.. zeenews..the Kargil propaganda machine.
I wonder the day they report Pakistan is considering acceding to India..RSS blocking move..
Or that the Chinese race was actually Indian.. and the Chinese should now return to India..
Apart from distasteful drama's almost always involving a Muslim girl with a Hindu guy.. gives a bad image of India..
In other words.. the source isnt something I respect.
So I believe the article exists.. just find the Pakistani daily version of it..
Not the zee news report on it.

here you are..as you wanted it.

Wake up and smell the failure – The Express Tribune

 

[JohnyD]

this news is not like "Iran carried out a nuclear tests" which requires international sources...com'on guys....you can not deny the facts...its like when u see yourself in the mirror you do not want to recognize the fact that its you bcoz you look so ugly and you blame the mirror...

 

[mehru]

this news is not like "Iran carried out a nuclear tests" which requires international sources...com'on guys....you can not deny the facts...its like when u see yourself in the mirror you do not want to recognize the fact that its you bcoz you look so ugly and you blame the mirror...

Who asked for an international source? Everyone asked for that Pakistan daily source which published this article. It was published in express tribune. So there is a difference.
I don't understand why an article is reported as a news? It's an opinion of a person.No big deal. We say even more harsh things about our country. Should we start reporting everything that Javed Naqvi writes about India in Dawn newspapers?

 

[gubbi]

The author makes some valid points.. a little too harsh..but his direction is correct.
Pakistan has been India centric where its military designs have been concerned..but after all.. there really wasn't anybody else to fight with.. till the Reds invaded Afghanistan.
Our rulers have taken shortcuts..for their own survival..and the middle class is as gullible as anything..
Our greatest loss..is the feudal system..
The poor arent fit to vote when they are pressured by their feudal lords..and since they form a majority.. they sway the electorate..
India's poor back then were no longer bound..they could vote for their betterment..
it took a while to shed the congress dynasty..but now..at least from what I gather.. India has an aware electorate..which does not vote out of fear or burden.. emotions may be swayed by rhetoric and oratory miracles.. but they(India's classes).. vote for themselves when going to vote...they vote for their prospertiy..
In contrast.. Pakistan's voters.. if anything.. vote either out of fear..or emotion..
the former.. never gets you anything.
India's early leap was the tossing of these feudal lords out...devolution came faster.
They had similar people.. with similar intelligence..similar problems.."ala.. roti,kapra and makaan"..but without a sadistic jagirdaar over their heads..these people could still work for it..
such is the turn of fate..
by 58.. India was a florishing democracy..
by 58.. we had a racist general who was actually earmarked for being kicked out by MA jinnah out of the army.. yet used cunning to get to the top..
start a war with India and almost committed suicide for this nation..then had himself penned in the history books as a hero.. ..if not for the brave souls who fought till the end..believing that it was India that had committed aggression..forever sowing hatred into the hearts of both neighbors...soo deep.. it can no longer be removed..
for one its a mental disorder..to the order its a cancer eating it away.
Still.. I am just repeating known knowns....
Feed a nation distorted history for years..and they will fall into a comatose state..
as we are now..disillusioned with all those truths unraveled..all those "pious" leaders machinations destroying us..waiting for a lamp to show them the light..
and never looking inside themselves for it...
But then.. I am a Pakistani..and like all.. dont like sudden dismissals of my country's future as grim..
yet I cant deny it.. we need drastic changes..
not at the top...but at the very bottom...
We do export terror....but that is not all we export....but then again.. Saudi Arabia exports dates as well.. but Oil is what it has become famous for..
At least Oil is useful..
Not people with a distorted view of a religion literally called peace.

This is one factory that is a hazardous place to work in....
Only time will tell..whether this ship will sick as all forecast..or finally..somebody will get the bilge pumps in the lower decks working??

I like your viewpoints. Pakistan needs more people like you, in power! May your tribe increase.

 

[mehru]

here you are..as you wanted it.

Wake up and smell the failure – The Express Tribune

Express tribune and Pakistan daily are two different newspapers. I hope you have that common sense.

 

[T-Faz]

this is by far one of best posts i`ve ever come across..totally unabashed, nuetral and self introspective.
Many members including me would have so much to learn from your line of thought.

I didn't write it but thanks anyway.

It is an excellent analysis of our current sorry state and the steps we need to take to move forward in the manner that is acceptable and welcomed by others.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Express tribune and Pakistan daily are two different newspapers. I hope you have that common sense.

and you hsould have enough common sense to know that the demand was not for daily times itself, but the question raised over the authenticity of the report , as it from Zee News. think before you start a discussion with a rude post.

 

[mehru]

The author makes some valid points.. a little too harsh..but his direction is correct.
Pakistan has been India centric where its military designs have been concerned..but after all.. there really wasn't anybody else to fight with.. till the Reds invaded Afghanistan.
Our rulers have taken shortcuts..for their own survival..and the middle class is as gullible as anything..
Our greatest loss..is the feudal system..
The poor arent fit to vote when they are pressured by their feudal lords..and since they form a majority.. they sway the electorate..
India's poor back then were no longer bound..they could vote for their betterment..
it took a while to shed the congress dynasty..but now..at least from what I gather.. India has an aware electorate..which does not vote out of fear or burden.. emotions may be swayed by rhetoric and oratory miracles.. but they(India's classes).. vote for themselves when going to vote...they vote for their prospertiy..
In contrast.. Pakistan's voters.. if anything.. vote either out of fear..or emotion..
the former.. never gets you anything.
India's early leap was the tossing of these feudal lords out...devolution came faster.
They had similar people.. with similar intelligence..similar problems.."ala.. roti,kapra and makaan"..but without a sadistic jagirdaar over their heads..these people could still work for it..
such is the turn of fate..
by 58.. India was a florishing democracy..
by 58.. we had a racist general who was actually earmarked for being kicked out by MA jinnah out of the army.. yet used cunning to get to the top..
start a war with India and almost committed suicide for this nation..then had himself penned in the history books as a hero.. ..if not for the brave souls who fought till the end..believing that it was India that had committed aggression..forever sowing hatred into the hearts of both neighbors...soo deep.. it can no longer be removed..
for one its a mental disorder..to the order its a cancer eating it away.
Still.. I am just repeating known knowns....
Feed a nation distorted history for years..and they will fall into a comatose state..
as we are now..disillusioned with all those truths unraveled..all those "pious" leaders machinations destroying us..waiting for a lamp to show them the light..
and never looking inside themselves for it...
But then.. I am a Pakistani..and like all.. dont like sudden dismissals of my country's future as grim..
yet I cant deny it.. we need drastic changes..
not at the top...but at the very bottom...
We do export terror....but that is not all we export....but then again.. Saudi Arabia exports dates as well.. but Oil is what it has become famous for..
At least Oil is useful..
Not people with a distorted view of a religion literally called peace.

This is one factory that is a hazardous place to work in....
Only time will tell..whether this ship will sick as all forecast..or finally..somebody will get the bilge pumps in the lower decks working??

I agree with you. Our wrong foreign policies have actually made us like that.
Although i agree with what the writer says but the writer is not saying anything new. In other words i will not call it a constructive criticism. Point is that our ruling class will not change but we want to. The writer failed to mention that what we can do at a lower level? Can we do anything to change the mentality of ruling class? Can we persuade them?

 

[BATMAN]

Who asked for an international source? Everyone asked for that Pakistan daily source which published this article. It was published in express tribune. So there is a difference.
I don't understand why an article is reported as a news? It's an opinion of a person.No big deal. We say even more harsh things about our country. Should we start reporting everything that Javed Naqvi writes about India in Dawn newspapers?

Actually yes.. if it is allowed by the forum.
Indians on this forum work for RAW and they get money to bad mouth Pakistan.

While we know, India can only export evil.
As very rightly said by nixon.
These Goddamn Indians are so treacherous

 

[mehru]

and you hsould have enough common sense to know that the demand was not for daily times itself, but the question raised over the authenticity of the report , as it from Zee News. think before you start a discussion with a rude post.

You replied to santro post. Look what he wrote:

first over smart poster.. wants that daily article.
Ah.. zeenews..the Kargil propaganda machine.
I wonder the day they report Pakistan is considering acceding to India..RSS blocking move..
Or that the Chinese race was actually Indian.. and the Chinese should now return to India..
Apart from distasteful drama's almost always involving a Muslim girl with a Hindu guy.. gives a bad image of India..
In other words.. the source isnt something I respect.
So I believe the article exists.. just find the Pakistani daily version of it..
Not the zee news report on it.

He didn't doubt about the authenticity rather he wanted a Pakistani version. Now you understand what i mean.

 

[para-site]

Now that was one hell of a poor title.....It's very difficult to have any sensible debate when someone makes such a title to their thread.....

 

[SQ8]

I like your viewpoints. Pakistan needs more people like you, in power! May your tribe increase.

Pakistan doesn't just need me..or other that harbor a secret dream.... it needs an India willing to talk on Kashmir..but being straight to the leadership on the other side..and letting them know..now on international forums.. but on a people to people basis.. coming here.. showing them.. look.. here are the LeT which we see as the threat to our people..
Where an India businessman can sell his product here..and an antivirus made in Pakistan secures his enterprise on the internet..
expats that aren't suspicious of each other in the same company because of where they were born..(they can be suspicious for other reasons..).
Somewhere where the IPL takes in a player from Kerala who played for Peshawar and they won the 20/20 championships held in Karachi.


But..at the same time.. It needs an India allowing Pakistani's to go into Kashmir..and letting them show you.. look.. here are the mother and daughter that were raped and killed.. rein in those police..and rein in those troops..
Let the Kashmiri's decide whatever they want to do, let them govern as they want..let them decide their education,services,infrastructure..and let us stand back...and manage their defence.. let us send our boys back home instead of spending night shivering up on mountain tops.. let us stop seeing the Pakistani that your hawks want you to see..the bearded think arabic accented guy who beats his women....and show us the Indian who doesnt see us that way.. who see's a nation betrayed..nay.. a neighbor betrayed by its rulers...and..prods us.. to make sure such lizards never rule Pakistan again..
Pakistan needs an India which doesn't need a multi-billion dollar army to keep at bay..it needs an India where its Multibillion dollar armies keep their border's secure..but their hands extended for a shake..
Territory is safeguarded..but also respected..
We need an India where we dont worry about our rivers going dry because of a dam...
we want an India where Pakistani college students can go on exchange trips..where doctors in Pakistan refer to surgeons in India..
And where I can go to bombay..and look for an original "his masters voice record of this song...

and where I can buy a Jaguar XFR..and not fret about maintenance and spare parts...


BUT.. such a change cannot be done by Bhutto's or Nehru's..
Or Manmohans or Hassan Khans..
It would have to flow out of people themselves..
it would have to be strong enough to overcome years and years of hatred,bias and contempt..genetic and experienced..
It would have to overcome religion itself..

I dont see that happening..
At least.. I dont know how..

 

[Mirza Jatt]

You replied to santro post. Look what he wrote:

first over smart poster.. wants that daily article.
Ah.. zeenews..the Kargil propaganda machine.
I wonder the day they report Pakistan is considering acceding to India..RSS blocking move..
Or that the Chinese race was actually Indian.. and the Chinese should now return to India..
Apart from distasteful drama's almost always involving a Muslim girl with a Hindu guy.. gives a bad image of India..
In other words.. the source isnt something I respect.
So I believe the article exists.. just find the Pakistani daily version of it..
Not the zee news report on it.

Pakistan daily is the name of a Pakistani news source. That's what santro asked. Now you understand what i mean.

yes, I know what you mean....you mean since he wanted daily times article..I should present him with Daily times article..lol...not see the reason why he rejected the Indian article...not to blame him though.

anyways..you havent got my point either and this argument with you seems childish to me..will post the article if i get it, (specifically from that daily times). till then manage with tribune.

He didn't doubt about the authenticity rather he wanted a Pakistani version. Now you understand what i mean.

yes , I think got that..probably thats why I posted a pakistani link..anyways...I think might not win this debate

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Where we are - by Yasser Latif Hamdani

@ T-Faz
Thank you for posting a well thought out and articulated essay by Yasser Latif Hamdani. While its intent is to create some introspection among readers in Pakistan, it holds some relevance to Indians as well to the extent that it very succinctly explains the reason for China's importance. If India works precisely on that line (as it has begun to), India will do alright.

Most importantly, if the people of Pakistan recognise that fact as well; there can be absolutely no reason why Pakistan can take on the mantle of a progressive and progressing country that the international community will hold up to the highest respect. That will be in line with the dream that Mr. Jinnah had for his country.

Undoubtedly, the strength of a country now stands to be measured less in terms of nukes, fighters and missiles; rather in terms of financial reserves, thriving industries, adequate employment and full granaries and so on. Every nation in the region can dream of that and has the right to realise that dream.

That we have not thought things through is apparent even from our approach to China. There is little or no recognition in Pakistan that China’s might is derived not from its military but its economic might. Yet how many of our institutions of higher learning have programmes in Chinese language, culture and law? None. It is not enough that Pakistan will become a conduit of energy for western China and, subsequently, an international trade route. Pakistan must realise that it will be important to China only if it remains internally stable, united and moderate. For this to happen, Pakistan must choose a pragmatic path to international geo-politics. It can no longer fool itself with some Pan-Islamic ambition and pursue a policy of Muslim interests. Our military establishment’s cynical flirtation with Islamist groups is dangerous given the Islamist rebellion in some parts of China.

 

[Icarus]

Everyone is entitled to their point of view, quite simply, I don't agree with the view of the writer as many of our Indian members will with any of Andurathi(I hope I spelt the name right) Roy's articles.