Vikramditya & the IAC Vikrant Threat To Pakistan Waters

[nomi007]

Its LRSAMS are not in place, we know that already.

dear technical drawbacks
designing

 

[Penguin]

IN had actually considered and entered negotiations with the italians for the garibaldi before geting the HMS hermes. IAC 1 with 42K tons seems underutilised with 12 Mig 29K's and 8 LCA's

Isn't she suppose to operate 16 Migs and some 8-10 helicopters?

The 44,500 ton ex-Soviet vessel, which is undergoing an extensive modernization, (70 per cent of the structure will be completely renewed) will carry 16 new MiG-29K aircraft, as well as an assortment of Kamov-28 and Kamov-31 helicopters.

India’s Future Aircraft Carrier Force and the Need for Strategic Flexibility | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses

In soviet service, Baku/Gorshov carried 16 Yak jets +19 helicopters. Also, you do realize IN acquired a total of 30 SeaHarriers, 25 for operational use and the remainder as dual-seat trainer aircraft, which it has operated from both its aircraft carriers INS Vikrant and INS Viraat (ex-HMSHermes). Currently the Indian Navy uses 15 upgraded Sea Harriers on INS Viraat only. So, in reality, the aircraft complement of 16 Migs on Vikramaditya is similar and consistent (but of course the Mig29K is vastly superior to SeaHarrier). It was never intended by as a full fledged strike carrier. It's key function is extended fleet air defence, and all other capabilities (naval and land strike) as a nice bonus. And mind you, Liaoning will likely not operate more than 24 fighter jets, so even that bigger ship is limited compared to e.g. USN carriers. Note also that the RUssian Kuznetsov will get 28 Mig 29K eventually to replace it current Su-33s.

IN had actually considered and entered negotiations with the italians for the garibaldi before geting the HMS hermes. IAC 1 with 42K tons seems underutilised with 12 Mig 29K's and 8 LCA's

I very much doubt the IN was to acquire THE Garibaldi (though possibly interested in A Garibaldi class ship). HMS Hermes was transferred to India in 1987. The Italian carrier Garibaldi first commissioned 30 september 1985. Until 1988 only Italian helicopters landed on her deck, as well as RN Sea Harriers during NATO joint maneuvers. The ban on Italian naval fixed-wing aircraft was lifted in 1989, and the Italian Navy since received fixed-wing Harrier II fighters to fly from the Giuseppe Garibaldi.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Our aircraft carriers are just not cost effective in a Pakistan centric scenario. Discussing this is fine, but the real value lies in the bigger picture, the Indian Ocean.

In a Pakistan centric role, the carrier is an overkill and a misfit. Discssing only this in isolation is underestimating the true role of the carrier.

 

[acid rain]

dear technical drawbacks
designing
View attachment 10946 View attachment 10948

Pls share the link.

 

[trident2010]

Aircraft carrier is meant to project power far away from the shores so for local conflicts, it will be used for the blockade at most.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Isn't she suppose to operate 16 Migs and some 8-10 helicopters?


India’s Future Aircraft Carrier Force and the Need for Strategic Flexibility | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses

In soviet service, Baku/Gorshov carried 16 Yak jets +19 helicopters. Also, you do realize IN acquired a total of 30 SeaHarriers, 25 for operational use and the remainder as dual-seat trainer aircraft, which it has operated from both its aircraft carriers INS Vikrant and INS Viraat (ex-HMSHermes). Currently the Indian Navy uses 15 upgraded Sea Harriers on INS Viraat only. So, in reality, the aircraft complement of 16 Migs on Vikramaditya is similar and consistent (but of course the Mig29K is vastly superior to SeaHarrier). It was never intended by as a full fledged strike carrier. It's key function is extended fleet air defence, and all other capabilities (naval and land strike) as a nice bonus. And mind you, Liaoning will likely not operate more than 24 fighter jets, so even that bigger ship is limited compared to e.g. USN carriers. Note also that the RUssian Kuznetsov will get 28 Mig 29K eventually to replace it current Su-33s.


I very much doubt the IN was to acquire THE Garibaldi (though possibly interested in A Garibaldi class ship). HMS Hermes was transferred to India in 1987. The Italian carrier Garibaldi first commissioned 30 september 1985. Until 1988 only Italian helicopters landed on her deck, as well as RN Sea Harriers during NATO joint maneuvers. The ban on Italian naval fixed-wing aircraft was lifted in 1989, and the Italian Navy since received fixed-wing Harrier II fighters to fly from the Giuseppe Garibaldi.

I will go with the inferences there.
About the Garibaldi; there was no such plan. A version of the Garibaldi was considered as the basis to design a Carrier in India. At that time; the only thing that was clear; was that IN desired to keep the Carrier Wing going and the (old) INS Vikrant was a rapidly depleting asset. IN's DND was juggling various Carrier design concepts at the same time; all built around the concept of STOVL aircraft viz. the Sea Harrier. Even the Yak-40 Forger was looked at and summarily discarded.

Just as the Hermes/INS Viraat project happened quite fortiously, so did the Gorshkov/INS Vikramaditya project. It also coincided with the shift in IN's doctrinal thinking away from STOVL again.

The rest is history.

 

[Penguin]

Our aircraft carriers are just not cost effective in a Pakistan centric scenario. Discussing this is fine, but the real value lies in the bigger picture, the Indian Ocean.

In a Pakistan centric role, the carrier is an overkill and a misfit. Discssing only this in isolation is underestimating the true role of the carrier.

Very much agree with this. SInce its first carrier, IN has looked at three ship carrier force.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We already have nuclear deterrent, all the fancy planes will wash off the Carrier once a nuc goes off unleashing a gigantic Tsunami wave

Not to mention we have unlimited amount of weapons to launch from land to sea platform

 

[Vinod2070]

We already have nuclear deterrent, all the fancy planes will wash off the Carrier once a nuc goes off unleashing a gigantic Tsunami wave

Not to mention we have unlimited amount of weapons to launch from land to sea platform

You can't sustain a war for more than a week, two at the max.

 

[asad71]

1.An AC is a white elephant without necessary compliments of craft/eqpt to make a unit with the AC as the centrepiece. Unless integrated into the national plan/strategy/doctrine to wage war,the AC can be a liability.Aside WMD AC is the important strategic asset a nation can posses. Using the AC merely to project power,when there is none,can costly.To obtain operational capability a fleet with AC will need extensive and lengthy training/exercise -which themselves are expensive.

2.IN's maintenance level is quite poor and really laughable for such a large navy.An AC contains some sophisticated tools/eqpt which will puzzle IN Maintenance/Logistics for long.

3. To counter IN ACs, PN and BN need to acquire killer subs - always upgrading them. Also should be inducted is the Chinese AC Killer missile.

4. The lay of the Indian Ocean demand that PN forge close relations with the navies of Indonesia,BD, Malaysia,SL,UAE and S Arabia.And extend this to Turkey and China.Training, joint exercises, and reciprocity base arrangements should be forged.

 

[Parul]

1.An AC is a white elephant without necessary compliments of craft/eqpt to make a unit with the AC as the centrepiece. Unless integrated into the national plan/strategy/doctrine to wage war,the AC can be a liability.Aside WMD AC is the important strategic asset a nation can posses. Using the AC merely to project power,when there is none,can costly.To obtain operational capability a fleet with AC will need extensive and lengthy training/exercise -which themselves are expensive.

2.IN's maintenance level is quite poor and really laughable for such a large navy.An AC contains some sophisticated tools/eqpt which will puzzle IN Maintenance/Logistics for long.

3. To counter IN ACs, PN and BN need to acquire killer subs - always upgrading them. Also should be inducted is the Chinese AC Killer missile.

4. The lay of the Indian Ocean demand that PN forge close relations with the navies of Indonesia,BD, Malaysia,SL,UAE and S Arabia.And extend this to Turkey and China.Training, joint exercises, and reciprocity base arrangements should be forged.

Arey Ghazab, Yeh toh Latest news Hai

 

[trident2010]

I do not see that PN will be able to come up with some thing to counter two ACs in the near future. Only option for PN is to give a way when IN is coming

 

[Vinod2070]

1.An AC is a white elephant without necessary compliments of craft/eqpt to make a unit with the AC as the centrepiece. Unless integrated into the national plan/strategy/doctrine to wage war,the AC can be a liability.Aside WMD AC is the important strategic asset a nation can posses. Using the AC merely to project power,when there is none,can costly.To obtain operational capability a fleet with AC will need extensive and lengthy training/exercise -which themselves are expensive.

2.IN's maintenance level is quite poor and really laughable for such a large navy.An AC contains some sophisticated tools/eqpt which will puzzle IN Maintenance/Logistics for long.

3. To counter IN ACs, PN and BN need to acquire killer subs - always upgrading them. Also should be inducted is the Chinese AC Killer missile.

4. The lay of the Indian Ocean demand that PN forge close relations with the navies of Indonesia,BD, Malaysia,SL,UAE and S Arabia.And extend this to Turkey and China.Training, joint exercises, and reciprocity base arrangements should be forged.

A zealous but petty and insignificant hater. Condemned to insignificance and pettiness.

Burn haters burn!

 

[notorious_eagle]

You can't sustain a war for more than a week, two at the max.

We can sustain it for 45 days. Please explain how you're getting these numbers?

 

[Vinod2070]

We can sustain it for 45 days. Please explain how you're getting these numbers?

Read it somewhere. Will post if I can dig that out.

This is what happened in 1965 as well where PA was out of ammunition and India had 80% of the stock still intact.

Yes, your spending may be more now but so will be the intensity and cost of armament. Things have not changed much on a relative scale, they have only gotten worse.