What's new

Views of Pakistanis regarding 1965 war

Ruag

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
754
Reaction score
0
There is no doubt that Pakistan Air Force clearly won the 1965 war. But there are quite a few foreign observers, journalists and military historians who say that the overall performance of Pakistan was below par and faced much heavier losses.

Over the years, some Pakistani writers have revealed that Pakistan was incredibly low on ammunition stock and therefore, sought international diplomatic intervention to persuade India to accept cease-fire. They even criticize the Pakistani Army for making several strategic blunders.

I'm sure there will be several Pakistanis who will disagree with these foreign and Pakistani writers.

But still, as an unbiased military enthusiast, I just want to know all sides of the coin. Therefore, it would be great if some Pakistanis could share their views on the events of the 1965 war.
 
. .
There is no doubt that Pakistan Air Force clearly won the 1965 war. But there are quite a few foreign observers, journalists and military historians say that the overall performance of Pakistan was below par and faced much heavier losses.

Over the years, some Pakistani writers have revealed that Pakistan was incredibly low on ammunition stock and therefore, sought international diplomatic intervention to persuade India to accept cease-fire. They even criticize the Pakistani Army for making several strategic blunders.

I'm sure there will be several Pakistanis who will disagree with these foreign and Pakistani writers.

But still, as an unbiased military enthusiast, I just want to know all sides of the coin. Therefore, it would be great if some Pakistanis could share their views on the events of the 1965 war.

Read ''Flight of the falcon'' by Air Cdre. Ret. Sajjad Haider,Smashed the myths of 65' war from both side.
 
.
This video says it all.


 
Last edited by a moderator:
. . .
Statistics from the 1965 war:

1965 -

Indian Army strength: 700,000 Infantry
Pakistan Army strength: 260,000 Infantry

Indian Army losses: 3000 men
Pakistan Army losses: 3800 men

Indian territory lost: 1,617 mi^2 territory
Pakistan territory lost: 741 mi^2 territory
 
.
Statistics from the 1965 war:

1965 -

Indian Army strength: 700,000 Infantry
Pakistan Army strength: 260,000 Infantry

Indian Army losses: 3000 men
Pakistan Army losses: 3800 men

Indian territory lost: 1,617 mi^2 territory
Pakistan territory lost: 741 mi^2 territory

Add a quarter of IAF blown out of sky..lol
 
.
Indian territory lost: 1,617 mi^2 territory
Pakistan territory lost: 741 mi^2 territory

I would like to see any independent sources confirming these rather atrocious figures.

EDIT: If you are copying from Wiki, please copy the Neutral claims for both India and Pakistan. It doesn't make sense copying Pakistani claim for Indian territory lost and Neutral claims for Pakistan territory lost.

Neutral claims :-

Indian territory lost - 210 miles^2 primarily in the uninhabited marshes of Rann of Katchh
Pakistan territory lost - 741 miles ^2 primarily in the prime real estates of Punjab and Kashmir.
 
.
Though this thread about what Pakistanis consider of the 1965 war - which uniformly all of them think they won - it is worth to see what Neutral/unbiased sources say about the war.


According to the Library of Congress Country Studies conducted by the Federal Research Division of the United States –

The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.


TIME magazine reported that India held 690 mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 mi2 ofIndian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan. Additionally, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily. The article further elaborates,

Severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N.

Devin T. Hagerty wrote in his book "South Asia in world politics" –

The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.

In his book "National identity and geopolitical visions", Gertjan Dijkink writes –
The superior Indian forces, however, won a decisive victory and the army could have even marched on into Pakistani territory had external pressure not forced both combatants to cease their war efforts.


An excerpt from Stanley Wolpert's India, summarizing the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965,

In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on U.S. ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan's capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir's strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub's chagrin.


In his book titled The greater game: India's race with destiny and China, David Van Praagh wrote–

India won the war. It gained 1,840 square kilometers of Pakistani territory: 640 square kilometers in Azad Kashmir, Pakistan's portion of the state; 460 square kilometers of the Sailkot sector; 380 square kilometers far to the south of Sindh; and most critical, 360 square kilometers on the Lahore front. Pakistan took 540 square kilometers of Indian territory: 490 square kilometers in the Chhamb sector and 50 square kilometers around Khem Karan.


Dennis Kux's "India and the United States estranged democracies" also provides a summary of the war,

Although both sides lost heavily in men and material, and neither gained a decisive military advantage, India had the better of the war. New Delhi achieved its basic goal of thwarting Pakistan's attempt to seize Kashmir by force. Pakistan gained nothing from a conflict which it had instigated.


BBC reported that the war served game changer in Pakistani politics,

The defeat in the 1965 war led to the army's invincibility being challenged by an increasingly vocal opposition. This became a surge after his protege, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, deserted him and established the Pakistan People's Party.


"A region in turmoil: South Asian conflicts since 1947" by Robert Johnson mentions –

India's strategic aims were modest – it aimed to deny Pakistani Army victory, although it ended up in possession of 720 square miles (1,900 km2) of Pakistani territory for the loss of just 220 square miles (570 km2) of its own.


An excerpt from William M. Carpenter and David G. Wiencek's "Asian security handbook: terrorism and the new security environment" –

A brief but furious 1965 war with India began with a covert Pakistani thrust across the Kashmiri cease-fire line and ended up with the city of Lahore threatened with encirclement by Indian Army. Another UN-sponsored cease-fire left borders unchanged, but Pakistan's vulnerability had again been exposed.


English historian John Keay's "India: A History" provides a summary of the 1965 war –

The 1965 Indo-Pak war lasted barely a month. Pakistan made gains in the Rajasthan desert but its main push against India's Jammu-Srinagar road link was repulsed and Indian tanks advanced to within a sight of Lahore. Both sides claimed victory but India had most to celebrate.


Uk Heo and Shale Asher Horowitz write in their book "Conflict in Asia: Korea, China-Taiwan, and India-Pakistan"–

Again India appeared, logistically at least, to be in a superior position but neither side was able to mobilize enough strength to gain a decisive victory.

In his The Indian Ocean and the superpowers: economic, political and strategic perspectives., Rais Rasul Bux writes,

The 1965 war with India proved that Pakistan could neither break the formidable Indian defenses in a blitzkrieg fashion nor could she sustain an all-out conflict for long.

Newsweek magazine, however, praised the Pakistani military's ability to hold of the much larger Indian Army.
By just the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own (defensively).

Now it should be clear what the world at large thought of the 1965 war.
 
.
wiki

the Pakistani government was accused by foreign analysts of spreading disinformation among its citizens regarding the actual consequences of the war.[121] In his book "Mainsprings of Indian and Pakistani foreign policies", S.M. Burke writes[78] —
After the Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 the balance of military power had decisively shifted in favor of India. Pakistan had found it difficult to replace the heavy equipment lost during that conflict while her adversary, despite her economic and political problems, had been determinedly building up her strength.
Most observers agree that the myth of a mobile, hard hitting Pakistan Army was badly dented in the war, as critical breakthroughs were not made.[122] Several Pakistani writers criticized the military's ill-founded belief that their "martial race" of soldiers could defeat "Hindu India" in the war.[123][124] Rasul Bux Rais, a Pakistani political analyst wrote[125] –
The 1965 war with India proved that Pakistan could neither break the formidable Indian defenses in a blitzkrieg fashion nor could she sustain an all-out conflict for long.
Pakistan airforce on the other hand gained a lot of credibility and reliability among Pakistan military and international war writers for successful defence of lahore and other important areas of Pakistan and heavy retaliation to India on the next day. The alertness of the airforce was also related to the fact that some pilots were scrambled 6 times in less than an hour on indication of Indian air raids. Pakistan airforce along with the army is celebrated for on Defence day and Airforce day in commemoration of this in Pakistan (September 6 and 7 respectively).[126][32]
Moreover, Pakistan had lost more ground than it had gained during the war and, more importantly, failed to achieve its goal of occupying Kashmir; this result has been viewed by many impartial observers as a defeat for Pakistan.[127][128][129]
Many high ranking Pakistani officials and military experts later criticized the faulty planning of Operation Gibraltar that ultimately led to the war. The Tashkent declaration was also criticized in Pakistan, though few citizens realised the gravity of the situation that existed at the end of the war. Political leaders were also criticized. Following the advice of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Pakistan's foreign minister, Ayub Khan had raised very high expectations among the people of Pakistan about the superiority – if not invincibility – of its armed forces,[130] but Pakistan's inability to attain its military aims during the war, created a political liability for Ayub.[131] The defeat of its Kashmiri ambitions in the war led to the army's invincibility being challenged by an increasingly vocal opposition.[83]
One of the most far reaching consequences of the war was the wide-scale economic slowdown in Pakistan.[132][133] The cost of the 1965 war put an end to the impressive period economic growth Pakistan had experienced during early 1960s. Between 1964 and 1966, Pakistan's defence spending rose from 4.82% to 9.86% of GDP, putting tremendous strain on Pakistan's economy. By 1970–71, defence spending comprised a whopping 55.66% of government expenditure.[134]
Pakistan was surprised by the lack of support by the United States, an ally with whom the country had signed an Agreement of Cooperation. USA declared its neutrality in the war by cutting off military supplies to both sides,[16] leading Islamabad to believe that they were "betrayed" by the United States.[135] After the war, Pakistan would increasingly look towards China as a major source of military hardware and political support.
Another negative consequence of the war was the growing resentment against the Pakistani government in East Pakistan (present day Bangladesh),[101] particularly for West Pakistan's obsession with Kashmir.[136] Bengali leaders accused the central government of not providing adequate security for East Pakistan during the conflict, even though large sums of money were taken from the east to finance the war for Kashmir.[137] In fact, despite some Pakistan Air Force attacks being launched from bases in East Pakistan during the war, India did not retaliate in that sector,[138] although East Pakistan was defended only by an understrenghted infantry division (14 Division), sixteen planes and no tanks.[139] Sheikh Mujibur Rahman was critical of the disparity in military resources deployed in East and West Pakistan, calling for greater autonomy for East Pakistan, which ultimately led to the Bangladesh Liberation War and another war between India and Pakistan in 1971.
 
.
This is what the US Ambasssasor in Pakistan thought of the war as revealed from de-classified documents whereby the laments the huge propaganda that was undertaken by the Armed Forces to make the people believe that Pakistan had indeed won the war.


Mcconaughy20oct1965a.jpg


mcconaughy20oct1965b.jpg
 
.
PAKISTAN'S ASSERTIVE REGIONAL STRATEGY -- [FROM THE TASK FORCE ON TERRORISM AND UNCONVENTIONAL WARFARE, HOUSE REPUBLICAN RESEARCH COMMITTEE, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, WASHINGTON, DC, AUG. 24, 1994] (Extension of Remarks - September 12, 1994)

After Pakistan's defeat in the 1965 Indo-Pakistani war, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto vowed to retain a strategic balance with India, including the development of nuclear weapons, at any cost.


Conversation with Steve Coll, p. 5 of 8

"What kind of neighborhood is this going to be after the Soviets pull out of Afghanistan?" In answering that question, their main concern was actually India, their existential rival with whom they had fought and lost three wars, the most recent one in 1971.
 
. .
There is no doubt that Pakistan Air Force clearly won the 1965 war. But there are quite a few foreign observers, journalists and military historians who say that the overall performance of Pakistan was below par and faced much heavier losses.

Over the years, some Pakistani writers have revealed that Pakistan was incredibly low on ammunition stock and therefore, sought international diplomatic intervention to persuade India to accept cease-fire. They even criticize the Pakistani Army for making several strategic blunders.

I'm sure there will be several Pakistanis who will disagree with these foreign and Pakistani writers.

But still, as an unbiased military enthusiast, I just want to know all sides of the coin. Therefore, it would be great if some Pakistanis could share their views on the events of the 1965 war.

I read from some very authentic sources of highest intellectuals indian origin, these indian authors suggest that the 1965 war of indo-pak actually never happened. it is infact a great conspiracy by the Americans to sell their weapons to Indians and Pakistanis.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom