View from McLeod Road: Why the Sino-Pak alliance is economically worthless

[muse]

There is nothing pleasant or unpleasant about genuine investment by any country. It is what it is.

The issue, when discussing Chinese investment in Pakistan, is the 800lb gorilla in the room, which is that the US (and GCC) are determined to sabotage all development in Baluchistan -- even to the point of Balkanizing Pakistan -- and that this geopolitical game is intimately tied to the Pak-China relationship.

Now, one might hope that the Pakistani government would be able to safeguard Pakistan's national interests -- which happen to coincide with China's interests in this case -- and ensure security to foreign (Chinese) investors, but the evidence all these decades is that the government is unwilling to do so. Whether this is due to ineptness or downright treason (read: bribery) is up for debate.



Wrong.

The substance of the article is that China is only using Pakistan and Pakistan should dump China in favor of the US. Nowhere in the article is there any exhortation for Pakistanis to exploit the Chinese market or relationship.

Aside from the blatant falsehoods, the article completely misses the broader geopolitical game at play, including the US sabotage of Chinese investments, which is why I call it a trash article.

It is unfortunate that you of all people should think that the message from Mcleoud is not a call for action but instead just a hammer, but of course you are entitled to you view.

Now as for US and GCC being dtermined to undermine the Pakistan China relationship -- You know, it's a philosophical difference, but I think no one is responsible for events in Pakistan other than Pakistanis, I think you will agree with this - and if yes, then your point is that ....????

See, what these arbis and Amriki may want or imagine, ultimately, in Pakistan, we decide - isn't that so??

 

[Developereo]

Then please ask moderators to close this useless thread as it will misguide members here specially non pak members.
Thank You.

The author is parroting the standard lines often quoted by Indians and others, so it is useful to debunk them again and again.

There's no harm when the facts are on our side.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

The author is parroting the standard lines often quoted by Indians and others, so it is useful to debunk them again and again.

There's no harm when the facts are on our side.

Well lets hope that happens.

 

[Developereo]

It is unfortunate that you of all people should think that the message from Mcleoud is not a call for action

Perhaps you would be kind enough to show me where in the article the author exhorts Pakistanis to take responsibility for furthering this relationship. From what I can see, it puts all the blame on the Chinese, and absolves Pakistanis of all responsibility.

See, what these arbis and Amriki may want or imagine, ultimately, in Pakistan, we decide - isn't that so??

Did I not say the same thing? I even went further and accused our leaders of outright treason for failing to provide security for (foreign) investments in Baluchistan.

But the article doesn't acknowledge that reality. Like a broken record, it keeps blaming the Chinese for our failures.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

The author is parroting the standard lines often quoted by Indians and others, so it is useful to debunk them again and again.

There's no harm when the facts are on our side.

Are you implying that threads where the facts are not on our side are the ones that should be closed? Really?

 

[Developereo]

Are you implying that threads where the facts are not on our side are the ones that should be closed? Really?

Strange interpretation.

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Strange interpretation.

Whatever floats your boat.

I did not interpret your post, but merely asked for a clarification Sir.

 

[Developereo]

I did not interpret your post, but merely asked for a clarification Sir.

I meant what I wrote. We have nothing to hide or be ashamed of, so why run away?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I meant what I wrote. We have nothing to hide or be ashamed of, so why run away?

Yes sir, but what you wrote was in response to a post asking the "moderators to close this useless thread as it will misguide members here specially non pak members" which begs the question what should our response be in threads where the facts are not on our side?

 

[MilSpec]

The article says View from McLeoud Road -- Chinese friends should understand that Mcleoud road is famous for banks and commercial enterprises -- The article is high lighting something we have been high lighting for years, namely that China and Pakistan speak in flowery terms but in real value, not much is matched by the words -- See these are businessmen, they measure things of real value, exchangeable value, they can eat or buy or sell "feel good" -- this is the proper perspective of the article.

Now we have argued for years, (just check on this forum) that it is not China but Pakistan that does not take the value of commercial relations seriously - and this is the complaint for Mcleoud road as well, where are the govt ministries that promote trade with China? Where are the programs that identify and create opportunities for Pakistani and Chinese business??

If the numbers stated in the article are true, then, it is not china's fault, Shouldn't pakistan be working harder to ensure chinese investment in pakistan. I dont know if this is relevant but, are there any initiatives in pakistani universities to learn mandarin cantonese, that might be a good place to begin. Apart from that, It has been often highlighted about russia developing steel mills in pakistan, when chinese are world leaders in steel production. China can play a much larger role in pakistan, but I suspect, there isn't enough avenues provided by pakistan to do so.

 

[Developereo]

Yes sir, but what you wrote was in response to a post asking the "moderators to close this useless thread as it will misguide members here specially non pak members" which begs the question what should our response be in threads where the facts are not on our side?

Leave them open.

There are several such threads which remain open for long periods, even though the facts are not favorable to our side.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Leave them open.

There are several such threads which remain open for long periods, even though the facts are not favorable to our side.

I can only hope that actually happens, but thank you for clarifying that Sir.

 

[Darth Vader]

In the 12-year period between July 2000 and June 2012, net foreign investment in Pakistan amounted to about $29 billion, of that, just $0.8 billion came from China. CREATIVE COMMONS

KARACHI: Pakistan’s leaders love using laughably outrageous metaphors in describing the country’s relationship with China, yet the truth is that this so-called alliance means almost nothing positive for the Pakistani economy.

All of Islamabad – indeed all of Pakistan – appears to be bending over backwards in laying out the red carpet to welcome Chinese Premier Li Keqiang. But the fact of the matter is that China will give Pakistan almost nothing, and this two-day trip is really only being made by the Chinese premier to avoid slapping Islamabad in the face completely, after having made his first trip abroad a three-day visit to India, in a key signal about the real shifts in Chinese foreign policy.

Pakistanis love to proclaim China as our “all-weather friend. In his last visit to China, former Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani described the relationship as “higher than mountains, deeper than oceans, stronger than steel and sweeter than honey.”

On this trip, Premier Li described the relationship as “a tree, now exuberant with abundant fruits”.
This was not him being poetic. It was delivering a message that nobody in Pakistan seems to have gotten: that China’s ties with Pakistan are not some eternal alliance of friends, but a strictly utilitarian relationship in which Beijing uses Islamabad occasionally to scare the living daylights out of the United States and India to get what it wants in its negotiations with Washington and New Delhi, and then abandons Pakistan once that transaction is completed.

A look at the numbers suggests that the Islamabad-Beijing relationship has had very little benefit for Pakistan as whole.

In the 12-year period between July 2000 and June 2012, net foreign investment in Pakistan amounted to about $29 billion, according to the State Bank of Pakistan. Of that, just $0.8 billion came from China, and nearly all of that was China Mobile’s investment in Zong.

China’s investment in Pakistan is less than that of tiny Netherlands, which invested $1.4 billion during that time. The supposed “Great Satan” – the United States – invested the most in Pakistan: $7.7 billion, or more than a quarter of all foreign investment in the country. There is only one major Chinese company with actual investments in Pakistan: China Mobile. The number of major US companies investing in Pakistan? More than 30.

In Pakistan’s terms of trade with China, the relationship is virtually colonial in nature. In 2012, China sold Pakistan about $6.6 billion worth of goods, mostly electronic equipment and machinery. Pakistan sold China about $2.6 billion worth of goods, nearly all of that cotton yarn. By contrast, Pakistan runs a trade surplus with both the United States and the European Union.

But what about Gwadar Port and its benefits to Pakistan, one might be tempted to ask. There is no denying that Gwadar – if developed properly – can deliver massive economic gains to Pakistan as a whole and especially the impoverished people of Balochistan. The problem is that this is exactly what we said when we handed over the Saindak copper and gold mines to China a decade ago. How’s that working out for us? Not very well, by the looks of the Balochistan and federal governments’ revenues, and the utter lack of development in that area.

What about other Chinese companies building infrastructure in Pakistan? They are simply contractors being paid for construction work on projects financed mostly by Pakistani taxpayers or donations from the US, EU or multilateral donors.

The truth is that China is much more serious about its economic relationship with India than with Pakistan. Here is how we know: in Islamabad, the Chinese premier will, at best, sign a few memoranda of understanding, essentially worthless pieces of paper that say nothing of substance. In India, the visit was marked by Chinese companies signing legally binding contracts with their Indian counterparts worth billions of dollars. China’s trade with India is worth $68 billion and the two countries are on track to take it to $100 billion in two years.

The sooner Pakistan wakes up from the “China is our friend” delusion, the sooner we will stop giving control of the country’s economic resources for almost nothing in return. The harsh reality is that Pakistan means almost nothing to China, and that is why the relationship with Beijing has yielded almost no tangible benefits for the Pakistani economy.

View from McLeod Road: Why the Sino-Pak alliance is economically worthless – The Express Tribune

Published in The Express Tribune, May 23rd, 2013.

Same goes for Russia India releation Einstein You Pay for what you get

 

[muse]

If the numbers stated in the article are true, then, it is not china's fault, Shouldn't pakistan be working harder to ensure chinese investment in pakistan. I dont know if this is relevant but, are there any initiatives in pakistani universities to learn mandarin cantonese, that might be a good place to begin. Apart from that, It has been often highlighted about russia developing steel mills in pakistan, when chinese are world leaders in steel production. China can play a much larger role in pakistan, but I suspect, there isn't enough avenues provided by pakistan to do so.

This is exactly what we have argued, it is Pakistan's responsibility to take advantage of this opportunity - with regard to your suggestion of learning Chinese, even that is to be facilitated by the Chinese, as they have announced that they will send 1000 teachers -- but there is an immediate problem -- yes, security, the day before the Chinese premier arrived in Pakistan, there was an attempt to kill Chinese engineers with a road bomb in Karachi.

As you can see it's really really important for Pakistanis to not care about little except, well you know what-

 

[MilSpec]

This is exactly what we have argued, it is Pakistan's responsibility to take advantage of this opportunity - with regard to your suggestion of learning Chinese, even that is to be facilitated by the Chinese, as they have announced that they will send 1000 teachers -- but there is an immediate problem -- yes, security, the day before the Chinese premier arrived in Pakistan, there was an attempt to kill Chinese engineers with a road bomb in Karachi.

As you can see it's really really important for Pakistanis to not care about little except, well you know what-

Foreign investment and it's effects are often stated in posts by well informed members, I for one would like to know more about what would kind of reforms or initiatives would attract foreign investment in a developing country (especially from a manufacturing giant like China). If you have the time, can you please state a few examples. thanks