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Vietnamese nationalist fabrications

Looks like you are in denial,your own history book criticizes your myths yet you can't accept reality.
If you even bothered to read my post you can see that Van Lang is separated from Lake Dongting by Xi and Dian.
We can't trust ancient Vietnamese historiography as they blatantly distort history.
You are academically dishonest you have never provided archaeological proof Van Lang encompassed Southern China.

You just troll, no study.

Dian which respsectively were the lands of the Ba and Shu, and which makes up the present day provinces of Sichuan, Guizhou, and Yunnan

Van Lang territory is included Viet Thuong (Champa), Guangxi, Guangdong ... reached to Dongding Lake in Hunan.

So all Austroasiatic people are Vietnamese now?
Go tell Cambodians they are Vietnamese I'm sure they will laugh at you.
That is utterly ridiculous,can Indians claim that Germans are Indians because they belong in the same language family?

You are fully idiot.

Its people in language family Mon/Khmer, like Sino - Tibetan language family included Han Chinese, Cantonese, Tibetan people etc. Tibetan is independent ethnic group in China, fully separated from Han Chinese in ehtnicity.

Khmer Krom people in South Vietnam is not Vietnamese Kinh people. They are Vietmese citizens.


Read Lacquered Words:The Evolution of Vietnmaese under Sinitic Influences From The 1st Century BCE Through The 17th Century to see that Vietnamese at one time spoke a Sinitic language.
Insulting me won't change a thing,only revealing your inferiority complex.

Arrogant and idiot Chinese talk nonsense. Without Chinese we don't suffered to much war with you.
 
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Anything before the Shang is uncorroborated with archaeological evidence that's why I don't believe in Huangdi,Yandi,Xia dynasty etc.

Also any mythological elements in the Shiji is not taken seriously by modern day historians.

Stories of the Shang dynasty was written in the Spring Autumn/Warring states period ie Bamboo annals,Tsinghua bamboo slips,Shangshu etc while Dai Viet su ky didn't even mention the Hung kings and Van Lang.

The difference between the veracity of the Shang and Van Lang is that Shang has oracle bones,bronze vessels,and evidence of city walls while the only "evidence" for Van Lang are bronze artifacts and drums(which are not even distinctly Vietnamese).

I asked this question many times,where is the evidence that the natives of Southern China ever submitted to Vietnamese rule and where are the archaeological artifacts that indicate this?

Where is this nonsense in Shiji,quote it otherwise you are trolling again.(I'm not talking about mythological elements either)
Au Co and Lac Long Quan are myth. I learned at school they are myth.
Though many Viet people believe to such saga.

I dare to make the comparison to Christianity, with Jesus Christ´s resurgence. :angel:

You just troll, no study.

Dian which respsectively were the lands of the Ba and Shu, and which makes up the present day provinces of Sichuan, Guizhou, and Yunnan

Van Lang territory is included Viet Thuong (Champa), Guangxi, Guangdong ... reached to Dongding Lake in Hunan.



You are fully idiot.

Its people in language family Mon/Khmer, like Sino - Tibetan language family included Han Chinese, Cantonese, Tibetan people etc. Tibetan is independent ethnic group in China, fully separated from Han Chinese in ehtnicity.

Khmer Krom people in South Vietnam is not Vietnamese Kinh people. They are Vietmese citizens.




Arrogant and idiot Chinese talk nonsense. Without Chinese we don't suffered to much war with you.
compared to many other chinese posters, grand historian is a "good" guy. pls don´t use the word "idiot". I don´t see he uses this word.

Just use your arguments.
 
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Au Co and Lac Long Quan are myth. I learned at school they are myth.
Though many Viet people believe to such saga.

I dare to make the comparision to Christianity, with Jesus Christ´s resurgence. :angel:


compared to many other chinese posters, grand historian is a "good" guy. pls don´t use the word "idiot". I don´t see he uses this word.

Just use your arguments.

I think idiot could get a meaning "ngớ ngẩn" in Vietnamese, OK, I will change it.
 
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You just troll, no study.

Dian which respsectively were the lands of the Ba and Shu, and which makes up the present day provinces of Sichuan, Guizhou, and Yunnan

Van Lang territory is included Viet Thuong (Champa), Guangxi, Guangdong ... reached to Dongding Lake in Hunan.
Dian,Ba,Shu and Xi were all separate entities

Read your own historty book that denies these claims.

Van Lang did not own Southern China,show me the archaeological evidence.

You are fully idiot.

Its people in language family Mon/Khmer, like Sino - Tibetan language family included Han Chinese, Cantonese, Tibetan people etc. Tibetan is independent ethnic group in China, fully separated from Han Chinese in ehtnicity.

Khmer Krom people in South Vietnam is not Vietnamese Kinh people. They are Vietmese citizens.
Same language family doesn't mean you can claim the entire language family as one ethnicity.

Nothing you say refutes me.

Arrogant and idiot Chinese talk nonsense. Without Chinese we don't suffered to much war with you.
Insulting me won't change a thing you are academically incompetent.

Furthermore John Phan the author of the dissertation is Vietnamese.
 
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Face it,Kinh Vietnamese are hijacking the achievements of other ethnicities to present themselves better.

You nationalist Vietnamese are entertaining,spinning a web of deceit in an attempt to delude people out of ignorance.
what achievements of other ethnicities should we have hijacked?
 
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Dian,Ba,Shu and Xi were all separate entities
Read your own historty book that denies these claims.
Van Lang did not own Southern China,show me the archaeological evidence.

Our historian in Cuong Muc misunderstood the statement " North point of Van Lang reached to Dongding Hu" of Dai Viet Su Luoc. It didn't said that north border of Van Lang is Yangze River. Its different. so it should be Hunan , Guangxi, Gunangdong and Fujian only.

With minimum knowledge about demographic of China from 4,000 year ago, could understood that there was not included Yelang territory Ba Chu and Xi in west and or Wu Yue in northeast of Hunan.

Dai Viet Su Luoc stated that Hungking of Van Lang had a diplomacy relation with Wu Ye Guo of Guojian in this time.

I can tell you an humor story in Vietnam. It said that in 1955, by the meeting of Ho Chi Minh and Mao Zedong, Mao said to Ho that Vietnam can take back Guangdong and Guangxi to the ancient NanYue Guo, but Ho Chi Minh refuted Mao's proposal. Do you know why ?

Same language family doesn't mean you can claim the entire language family as one ethnicity.
Nothing you say refutes me

From a time 2,000 year BCE ago, there was our ancestors belong to the people who spoke Autro-asian language in China. Han Chinese copied the word Jiang/river from Krong/song, dog from cho, dead from chet directly from Vietnamese, what we are talking today.

Insulting me won't change a thing you are academically incompetent.
Furthermore John Phan the author of the dissertation is Vietnamese.

I don't know what John Phan said in his blog.

what achievements of other ethnicities should we have hijacked?

You may wrongly quoted, I didn't said that what you quoted for answer..
 
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I would like to say to you, if you don have your Jia fa (familiy tree) to stated that your ancestor came to from some where in north China. if You are Fujian people in origin, you are fake Han chinese.

I wonder about that, southern chinese claim that they are an Han Chinese from North China, but your bloodline and languages is different for each to other.
A family tree covers thousands years is very rare , only some very famous big name family can keep this.

We merged a lot of different nations in history,Han Chinese is defined by culture today rather than gene.
 
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A family tree cover thousands years is very rare , only some very famous big name family can keep this.
I agree unless you are Confucius or some famous landed gentry I don't think you can trace your ancestry that far.

My jiapu traces back to Song dynasty any further it is pretty much nonsense.
 
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I agree unless you are Confucius or some famous landed gentry I don't think you can trace your ancestry that far.

My jiapu traces back to Song dynasty any further it is pretty much nonsense.
WOW

You family must be very powerful in the past.

Make and Keep JP for so long time costs a lot of money.

My JP can only trace back to the end of Ming , and my grandfather always asked me to remember as many name as I can !

It is quite difficult .
 
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Our historian in Cuong Muc misunderstood the statement " North point of Van Lang reached to Dongding Hu" of Dai Viet Su Luoc. It didn't said that north border of Van Lang is Yangze River. Its different. so it should be Hunan , Guangxi, Gunangdong and Fujian only.

With minimum knowledge about demographic of China from 4,000 year ago, could understood that there was not included Yelang territory Ba Chu and Xi in west and or Wu Yue in northeast of Hunan.

Dai Viet Su Luoc stated that Hungking of Van Lang had a diplomacy relation with Wu Ye Guo of Guojian in this time.

I can tell you an humor story in Vietnam. It said that in 1955, by the meeting of Ho Chi Minh and Mao Zedong, Mao said to Ho that Vietnam can take back Guangdong and Guangxi to the ancient NanYue Guo, but Ho Chi Minh refuted Mao's proposal. Do you know why ?
Why are you talking about the Chang Jiang?

He clearly stated that Van Lang was separated by Xi and Dian from Ba and Shu neither of these 4 states held allegiance to a Vietnamese sovereign.

Dai Viet Su Luoc is wrong,no Chinese source ever records this event.

Otherwise find it in the Yuejueshu,Guoyu,Wuyue Chunqiu,Shiji,Hanshu etc.

Show where Mao Zedong said that he wanted to give Guangdong and Guangxi.

As usual you fail to answer my questions.

1.Why are all 15 division of Van Lang in Jiaozhi and Zhuyuan?
2.Why are there no archaeological artifacts in Southern China that show them being ruled by Vietnamese?
3.Why are there no Chinese texts that mention Van Lang ruled Southern China?
4.Why is there no Chinese texts that show that the rulers of Xi,Dian,Yelang,Minyue,Nanyue,Xiou,Wuyue,Yuyue etc acknowledged a Hung sovereign?

From a time 2,000 year BCE ago, there was our ancestors belong to the people who spoke Autro-asian language in China. Han Chinese copied the word Jiang/river from Krong/song, dog from cho, dead from chet directly from Vietnamese, what we are talking today.
Stop making up nonsense none of the researchers said that those Austroasiatic speakers were Vietnamese as usual you are distorting sources to further your agenda.

I don't know what John Phan said in his blog.
Its not a blog its a dissertation I already showed you the title,if you even bothered to read it it shows that Vietnamese spoke an ancient variant of Southwestern Chinese.

Keep on spouting out your lies I will debunk each one of them.

WOW

You family must be very powerful in the past.

Make and Keep JP for so long time costs a lot of money.

My JP can trace back to the end of Ming , and my grandfather always asked me to remember as many name as I can !

It is quite difficult .
My father's side (吳) Jiapu got destroyed so its hard to piece together the pieces of it so that one is mainly Qing dynasty.

However my mother's side (劉) had a lot of branches in Taiwan that collaborated their sources and asked relatives in Quanzhou,they made a new Jiapu (combining individual cadet branches) so that's why they were able to trace it back that far.

I believe my Mother's side has a ancestral shrine in Taiwan and Quanzhou as well.

Most of my ancestors were Mandarins/landed gentries.
 
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Anything before the Shang is uncorroborated with archaeological evidence that's why I don't believe in Huangdi,Yandi,Xia dynasty etc.

Also any mythological elements in the Shiji is not taken seriously by modern day historians.

Stories of the Shang dynasty was written in the Spring Autumn/Warring states period ie Bamboo annals,Tsinghua bamboo slips,Shangshu etc while Dai Viet su ky didn't even mention the Hung kings and Van Lang.

The difference between the veracity of the Shang and Van Lang is that Shang has oracle bones,bronze vessels,and evidence of city walls while the only "evidence" for Van Lang are bronze artifacts and drums(which are not even distinctly Vietnamese).

I asked this question many times,where is the evidence that the natives of Southern China ever submitted to Vietnamese rule and where are the archaeological artifacts that indicate this?

Where is this nonsense in Shiji,quote it otherwise you are trolling again.(I'm not talking about mythological elements either)

Check Youtube, "in search of Huang di" At least there are some archaeological evidence to suggest he existed unlike vietnamese myths.
 
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Why are you talking about the Chang Jiang?
He clearly stated that Van Lang was separated by Xi and Dian from Ba and Shu neither of these 4 states held allegiance to a Vietnamese sovereign.

You can not know that 长江 and 扬子江 where is this river in China, one or two river ?. :woot:

Read again my post carefully, stubborn uneducated kid.

Dai Viet Su Luoc is wrong,no Chinese source ever records this event.
Otherwise find it in the Yuejueshu,Guoyu,Wuyue Chunqiu,Shiji,Hanshu etc.

We read our history book written by our ancestors.

If Chinese history books don't mentioned about it, we don't care bcz it written by our enemy. Its reported that when MaYuan invaded in to Jiaozhi he has been destroyed and burnt all our books and culture heritages.

Show where Mao Zedong said that he wanted to give Guangdong and Guangxi.

Do you understand what is humorous story, joke ? low educated boy can not understand what does it mean.

As usual you fail to answer my questions.
1.Why are all 15 division of Van Lang in Jiaozhi and Zhuyuan?
2.Why are there no archaeological artifacts in Southern China that show them being ruled by Vietnamese?
3.Why are there no Chinese texts that mention Van Lang ruled Southern China?
4.Why is there no Chinese texts that show that the rulers of Xi,Dian,Yelang,Minyue,Nanyue,Xiou,Wuyue,Yuyue etc acknowledged a Hung sovereign?

1/ many commandant with his people settled back to Jiaozhi/Vietnam when Van lang is collapsed, then they should keep a same name of which division was in southern China.
2/ China don't cared about it, but in Guangxi is discovered written Character of Luo Yue people same what we found in Sapa Vietnam.
3/ Zhou dynasty of China recorded that Viet Thuong people came to Court of Zhou to visit.
4/ It should be Han Chinese don't like to mention about it, like Yelang or Nan Yue etc bcz it related first to Han people who involved in establishe o Yelang and NanYue etc in the past.

Van Lang was created by our ancestors, no Hans.

Stop making up nonsense none of the researchers said that those Austroasiatic speakers were Vietnamese as usual you are distorting sources to further your agenda.

Vietnamese/Kinh people speak Mon/Khmer language or in other word Austro Asiatic language.

Austroasiatic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its not a blog its a dissertation I already showed you the title,if you even bothered to read it it shows that Vietnamese spoke an ancient variant of Southwestern Chinese.
Keep on spouting out your lies I will debunk each one of them.

I said I don't care. Its trashes. You can troll and troll only,kid.
 
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You can not know that 长江 and 扬子江 where is this river in China, one or two river ?. :woot:

Read again my post carefully, stubborn uneducated kid.
Chang Jiang and Yangtze are the same river,you are the one that brought it up not me so you only have yourself to blame.

You are raging at me because your own scholars disagree with you,you write nothing of value.

We read our history book written by our ancestors.

If Chinese history books don't mentioned about it, we don't care bcz it written by our enemy. Its reported that when MaYuan invaded in to Jiaozhi he has been destroyed and burnt all our books and culture heritages.
It doesn't matter if Vietnamese or Chinese wrote it,we have to critically examine the texts to see what is useful and what is not.

What convenient excuse for you that Ma Yuan destroyed Vietnamese literature,it is stated in the Shiji he brought back the bronze drums to the capital to be smelted down into a statue nothing about burning Vietnamese texts.

Do you understand what is humorous story, joke ? low educated boy can not understand what does it mean.
When confronted with your lies you fail to source it,saying I have low education when you can't even read you own history is hilarious.

1/ many commandant with his people settled back to Jiaozhi/Vietnam when Van lang is collapsed, then they should keep a same name of which division was in southern China.
2/ China don't cared about it, but in Guangxi is discovered written Character of Luo Yue people same what we found in Sapa Vietnam.
3/ Zhou dynasty of China recorded that Viet Thuong people came to Court of Zhou to visit.
4/ It should be Han Chinese don't like to mention about it, like Yelang or Nan Yue etc bcz it related first to Han people who involved in establishe o Yelang and NanYue etc in the past.

Van Lang was created by our ancestors, no Hans.
1.Then name the divisions in Southern China,should I quote Dai Viet su ky toan thu and show you that the there were no region names for Southern China?

I'll be here waiting for you to provide your sources.

2.I already told you that the tadpole script is from ethnic minorities which you Kinh Vietnamese conveniently stole,notice how 3rd century BC drum already transitioned to Sinitic characters. Luoyue did not live outside Northern Vietnam and Guangxi so again where is the archaeological evidence in other areas?

3.The tale of Viet Thuong is about them bringing tribute nothing about Van Lang,furthermore they are from the region where the Chams lived.

4.Han Chinese recognize that these states existed,provide the proof that the Baiyue had a Hung sovereign.

I don't care who founded Van Lang,what I do care is your own fanciful tales that Van Lang owned Southern China which you provided absolutely nothing.

Vietnamese/Kinh people speak Mon/Khmer language or in other word Austro Asiatic language.

Austroasiatic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't know how many times I have to drill it in your head Vietnamese =/= all other Austro Asiatic languages.

The researchers themselves never said that these words are Vietnamese but Austro Asiatic.

Using your logic the Munda of North East India are now magically speaking Vietnamese see how silly that sounds?

I said I don't care. Its trashes. You can troll and troll only,kid.
Denying research that doesn't agree with your claims is a classic example of cherry picking sources.

You are nothing more than a fraud with an ax to grind,you can't even provide proof when I request it and every one of your claims have been busted.

I don't troll unlike you I provide sources that are written by your own and international scholars,you simply distort ancient texts or go off topic.
 
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