Vietnamese nationalist fabrications

[Grand Historian]

sorry my question is for @Grand Historian.

what achievements of other ethnicities should we have hijacked?

Luoyue script,Chinese inventions/culture/history(judging by the members here),Trai individuals ie Le Loi

 

[Viet]

Luoyue script,Chinese inventions/culture/history(judging by the members here),Trai individuals ie Le Loi

what´s wrong with Lê Lợi?

 

[Viet]

I agree unless you are Confucius or some famous landed gentry I don't think you can trace your ancestry that far.

My jiapu traces back to Song dynasty any further it is pretty much nonsense.

Not bad. I´m impressed.

are you of noble stock?
in Vietnam, noble people keep records of their forefathers and families. normal people, some do, most don´t.

Can you introduce how you keep records of your families dating back to the Song? I am curious.

 

[Grand Historian]

what´s wrong with Lê Lợi?

Le Loi was of Muong/Trai stock according Taylor,Lieberman and Li.

 

[Viet]

Le Loi was of Muong/Trai stock according Taylor,Lieberman and Li.

who are the men you quoted?

so if I understand you correctly you claim Le Loi was NOT Vietnamese?

 

[Rechoice]

Chang Jiang and Yangtze are the same river,you are the one that brought it up not me so you only have yourself to blame.
You are raging at me because your own scholars disagree with you,you write nothing of value

You are funny kid, why you ask me when all han chinese could know that there is two name for one river ?

As I said before that the debate or discussion about history is normal thing in the world. Our historian could do it in the past, they should made a mistake, but we are living in 21 century, we can have our own idea about such dispute, who is right.

Turn back to the territory of Van Lang discussion, there was not all territory of South China, Dai Viet Su Luoc stated only that the north reached to Dongding lake, not to Yangzi river; lake is smaller than river.

It doesn't matter if Vietnamese or Chinese wrote it,we have to critically examine the texts to see what is useful and what is not.
What convenient excuse for you that Ma Yuan destroyed Vietnamese literature,it is stated in the Shiji he brought back the bronze drums to the capital to be smelted down into a statue nothing about burning Vietnamese texts.

Bronz drum is one important music instrument of our culture heritage for festivals and for warning when pirates come, Shiji of Han recorded it. Its not fabrication by Viets.

What happen with our text book when han invaders destroyed and burnt houses to make fear to our people ?

When confronted with your lies you fail to source it,saying I have low education when you can't even read you own history is hilarious

What is funny here ? I can read all our history books in Vietnamese here. Han Ji like Latin Alphabets, this is tool for writing language, no more.

1.Then name the divisions in Southern China,should I quote Dai Viet su ky toan thu and show you that the there were no region names for Southern China?
I'll be here waiting for you to provide your sources.
2.I already told you that the tadpole script is from ethnic minorities which you Kinh Vietnamese conveniently stole,notice how 3rd century BC drum already transitioned to Sinitic characters. Luoyue did not live outside Northern Vietnam and Guangxi so again where is the archaeological evidence in other areas?
3.The tale of Viet Thuong is about them bringing tribute nothing about Van Lang,furthermore they are from the region where the Chams lived.
4.Han Chinese recognize that these states existed,provide the proof that the Baiyue had a Hung sovereign.
I don't care who founded Van Lang,what I do care is your own fanciful tales that Van Lang owned Southern China which you provided absolutely nothing.

2/ You have to read your history book first. After annexed Nan Yue to Han Dynasty, Han divided Luo Yue to Jiaozhi Pu based on JiaoZhi commandery is included:
- part of North Vietnam,
- Đạm Nhĩ, Châu Nhai, today is Hainan Island;
- Nam Hải, Hợp Phố, Uất Lâm, Thương Ngô is today in territory of Guangdong and Guangxi.

3/ Viet Thuong is commandery of Van Lang following Dai Viet Su Luoc, Champa is Malayo people settled to Indo China peninsula from Islands too later, on first millennium BCE and taken reign on Viet Thuong, betrayed Hungking. The envoy was presented to Zhou Court to make diplomacy relation with gifts, but Han Chinese modified that the gifts is tribute, this is showed of the big boy mentality of Han Chinese; and traitor mentality of Champa. That why Champa attacked Vietnam until we have to annex them again when Champa King was killed when he invaded in to Hanoi.

4/ You have ask yourselves first.
But later on, you could read a book with title 水经注 ( Thủy kinh chú in Vietnamese) printed in China.

I don't know how many times I have to drill it in your head Vietnamese =/= all other Austro Asiatic languages.
The researchers themselves never said that these words are Vietnamese but Austro Asiatic.
Using your logic the Munda of North East India are now magically speaking Vietnamese see how silly that sounds?

Denying research that doesn't agree with your claims is a classic example of cherry picking sources.
You are nothing more than a fraud with an ax to grind,you can't even provide proof when I request it and every one of your claims have been busted.
I don't troll unlike you I provide sources that are written by your own and international scholars,you simply distort ancient texts or go off topic.

What happen with you, bro ? lack in understanding English ?

Austro-asiatic is Language family, like Sino-Tibetan language family, Han Chinese speak Mandarin, do not speak Tibet language. I copy here for you, its not my wording:

"The name Austroasiatic comes from the Latin words for "south" and "Asia", hence "South Asia". Among these languages, only Khmer, Vietnamese, and Mon have a long-established recorded history, and only Vietnamese and Khmer have official status"

Can you understand ? or not ?

 

[Rechoice]

who are the men you quoted?

so if I understand you correctly you claim Le Loi was NOT Vietnamese?

I think his nickname is Grand historian but he has little knowledge about history. He is clown nick of Yue10.

 

[Grand Historian]

You are funny kid, why you ask me when all han chinese could know that there is two name for one river ?

As I said before that the debate or discussion about history is normal thing in the world. Our historian could do it in the past, they should made a mistake, but we are living in 21 century, we can have our own idea about such dispute, who is right.

Turn back to the territory of Van Lang discussion, there was not all territory of South China, Dai Viet Su Luoc stated only that the north reached to Dongding lake, not to Yangzi river; lake is smaller than river.

Your English is so poor that you said that I mistook your writing.

Chang Jiang is a way more common name then Yangtze.

Quote the Dai Viet su louc in Hanzi.

Your own historian made the claims and all you have to back up your assertions that he's wrong is that we are living in the 21st century.

Bronz drum is one important music instrument of our culture heritage for festivals and for warning when pirates come, Shiji of Han recorded it. Its not fabrication by Viets.

What happen with our text book when han invaders destroyed and burnt houses to make fear to our people ?

Guess what, your own ancestors viewed bronze drums as a thing of barbarians.

Name the Vietnamese texts that Ma Yuan burnt,or it is simply untrue.

What is funny here ? I can read all our history books in Vietnamese here. Han Ji like Latin Alphabets, this is tool for writing language, no more.

2/ You have to read your history book first. After annexed Nan Yue to Han Dynasty, Han divided Luo Yue to Jiaozhi Pu based on JiaoZhi commandery is included:
- part of North Vietnam,
- Đạm Nhĩ, Châu Nhai, today is Hainan Island;
- Nam Hải, Hợp Phố, Uất Lâm, Thương Ngô is today in territory of Guangdong and Guangxi.

3/ Viet Thuong is commandery of Van Lang following Dai Viet Su Luoc, Champa is Malayo people settled to Indo China peninsula from Islands too later, on first millennium BCE and taken reign on Viet Thuong, betrayed Hungking. The envoy was presented to Zhou Court to make diplomacy relation with gifts, but Han Chinese modified that the gifts is tribute, this is showed of the big boy mentality of Han Chinese; and traitor mentality of Champa. That why Champa attacked Vietnam until we have to annex them again when Champa King was killed when he invaded in to Hanoi.

4/ You have ask yourselves first.
But later on, you could read a book with title 水经注 ( Thủy kinh chú in Vietnamese) printed in China.

Original sources are better than translated ones as Vietnamese translations often insert their biases ie calling what Nguyen labeled "Han" as Kinh.

If you can't read the original source then don't bother debating with me.

1. You haven't even answered the questions.

2. There you go fabricating history again,Han divided Nanyue not Luoyue.

The commanderies of Nanyue initially consisted of Nanhai,Xiang and Guilin.

Qin did not conquer OuLuo thus there was no such thing as Jiaozhi or Zhuyuan,Zhao Tuo did, even your own myths admit that.

3.Quit lying,Viet Thuong was South of Jiaozhi this is a fact,furthermore you are injecting random fabrications ie they were gifts not tribute,it was historically recorded that it was tribute.

4.Basically you deflected the question as usual,debating with you is like arguing with a brick wall.

I'm not doing your homework for you quote Shui Jing Zhu and where it stated the Baiyue recognized the Hung Kings.

What happen with you, bro ? lack in understanding English ?

Austro-asiatic is Language family, like Sino-Tibetan language family, Han Chinese speak Mandarin, do not speak Tibet language. I copy here for you, its not my wording:

"The name Austroasiatic comes from the Latin words for "south" and "Asia", hence "South Asia". Among these languages, only Khmer, Vietnamese, and Mon have a long-established recorded history, and only Vietnamese and Khmer have official status"

Can you understand ? or not ?

My English is leap and bounds ahead of yours you are incapable of understanding the simplest things.

I used a simply analogy yet you don't understand.

Ancient Baiyue did not speak Vietnamese as Vietnamese is not a fair representation of all Austro Asiatic languages you even admit Mandarin is not Tibetan.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand here Austroasiatic =/= Modern day Vietnamese.

You are also living in denial that Vietnamese elite spoke a variant of Southwestern Chinese.

I think his nickname is Grand historian but he has little knowledge about history. He is clown nick of Yue10.

Ad hominems are nothing more than a sign of intellectual inferiority, I have tried to act in a dignified manner yet you always try to insult me ie stupid,kid,idiot etc. and try to patronize me.

What is so hard is providing legitimate Western sources that agree with your claims?

Quote the text in Hanzi or you are wasting everyone's time.

From your unfounded claims and your refusal to show your sources I will repeat what I said you are a fraud with an ax to grind.

Funny how EastSea claims to know more history than me when he can't even read Chinese which form the backbone of Vietnamese and Chinese texts.

Furthermore he has an uncooperative attitude,twists sources or doesn't give any,insults me for no reason and denies his own scholars when it doesn't suit him.

 

[Grand Historian]

who are the men you quoted?

so if I understand you correctly you claim Le Loi was NOT Vietnamese?

No,what I'm saying Le Loi wasn't Kinh,I would expect Vietnamese included other ethnicties then Kinh.

Keith Weller Taylor is a professor of Asian studies at Cornell university.
His credentials are a BA and PHD in history.

Victor B. Liebermen is a professor of history and Asian studies at Michigan university.
His credentials are PHD in Oriental and African studies.

Tan Li is a professor at of Asian history at Australian National University.
Her credentials are a BA,MA and PHD in Asian history.

ViXuyen called them joe blow historians but we all know that ViXuyen doesn't have a PHD and is unqualified to judge them.

Not bad. I´m impressed.

are you of noble stock?
in Vietnam, noble people keep records of their forefathers and families. normal people, some do, most don´t.

Can you introduce how you keep records of your families dating back to the Song? I am curious.

No,as far as I know I don't contain the bloodline of aristocratic families however my ancestors served in the Imperial government so in essence they were Mandarins.

How my mother's side did this was combine all the Jiapu of the Liu branches into one single book,and interviewed various Liu families thus they were able to make an accurate genealogy.

 

[Fattyacids]

反驳的好. You're know they are trolling, don't take them too seriously.

 

[Grand Historian]

反驳的好, 不 要透 lu 太多, 不必 太坦白.

You're right I'm over-thinking it and loosing my cool.

However, I cannot stand foreigners always trying to destroy our Huaxia culture and making ridiculous claims on our ancestry and culture.

 

[Fattyacids]

You're right I'm over-thinking it and loosing my cool.

However, I cannot stand foreigners always trying to destroy our Huaxia culture and making ridiculous claims on our ancestry and culture.

Most people are here just to troll. This forum is not for proper discussion, you cannot take these idiots seriously. Some are truly retarded.

 

[Viet]

No,what I'm saying Le Loi wasn't Kinh,I would expect Vietnamese included other ethnicties then Kinh.

Keith Weller Taylor is a professor of Asian studies at Cornell university.
His credentials are a BA and PHD in history.

Victor B. Liebermen is a professor of history and Asian studies at Michigan university.
His credentials are PHD in Oriental and African studies.

Tan Li is a professor at of Asian history at Australian National University.
Her credentials are a BA,MA and PHD in Asian history.

ViXuyen called them joe blow historians but we all know that ViXuyen doesn't have a PHD and is unqualified to judge them.

Pls provide the text passage from the book. Can I read it online?

Sure, Vietnamese include the Kinh ethnic as majority and other 54 ethnics as minorities.

Most people are here just to troll. This forum is not for proper discussion, you cannot take these idiots seriously. Some are truly retarded.

come on. did you never troll?

not all Chinese posters behave like angel. read the posts and threads opened by your compariots.

a great number of chinese forumers not only want to carpet bomb, but nuke Vietnam. they constantly insult and harass viet members. compared to them, we are harmless.

 

[Fattyacids]

come on. did you never troll?

not all Chinese posters behave like angel. read the posts and threads opened by your compariots.

a great number of chinese forumers not only want to carpet bomb, but nuke Vietnam. they constantly insult and harass viet members. compared to them, we are harmless.

Taking a swipe at one another based on a factual point is fine. But most of the troll here belonged to the lowest form of life, they use lie, smear and fabrication as a mean of trolling.

80% of the thread posted is about China, but 80% of the content are filled by retarded Vietnamese and indians trolls. You have no idea what it's like to be attacked by an army of retards. It's extremely hazardous to our intellectual well being. We've no choice but to retaliate and occasionally counter attack, just to prevent the carrier of brain eating virus from spreading.

You're the more reasonable viet, but the rest of countrymen, with their brain virus, are not as harmless.

 

[ViXuyen]

No,what I'm saying Le Loi wasn't Kinh,I would expect Vietnamese included other ethnicties then Kinh.

Keith Weller Taylor is a professor of Asian studies at Cornell university.
His credentials are a BA and PHD in history.

Victor B. Liebermen is a professor of history and Asian studies at Michigan university.
His credentials are PHD in Oriental and African studies.

Tan Li is a professor at of Asian history at Australian National University.
Her credentials are a BA,MA and PHD in Asian history.

ViXuyen called them joe blow historians but we all know that ViXuyen doesn't have a PHD and is unqualified to judge them.


No,as far as I know I don't contain the bloodline of aristocratic families however my ancestors served in the Imperial government so in essence they were Mandarins.

How my mother's side did this was combine all the Jiapu of the Liu branches into one single book,and interviewed various Liu families thus they were able to make an accurate genealogy.

Did China pay those joe blow shitorian to misquote Vietnamese contemporary sources that Le Loi was not a Kinh? It seems like they do. Intentionally fabricating our Viet sources just to earn a few bucks is even more serious than plagarism in the world of academic, my friend. These shitorians can fool many non-Viet to earn their PHD but they ain't fooling any Viet. If these shitorians are members of PDF, I would school them the same way that I have schooled a bunch of chinaclowns in here.

Oh wait, are you their accomplices or are you one of them who is here to defend your books?