Vietnamese nationalist fabrications

[Grand Historian]

when history of Gojoseon Korean and Van Lang of Viets doesn't matter for you, why did you created this thread ?

when you are southern Chinese, you claimed that you are Han Chinese, but in fact your ancestor was Min Yue, not han chinese from north China. You dont have Jia Fa to post here to confirm your root from Zhong Yuan.

Its big fabrication made by yourselves.

I never said that Bai Yue is Vietnamese/Kinh people. Viet belong to Bai Yue, not inverse, it mean that Viets is part of Bai yue. Vietnamese ancestors belong to Bai Yue, not all Bai Yue belong to Viets.

I said also that in time of Hung King Emperor in our history, in North East of Van Lang there was Wu Yue Guo the country of Gou Jian. Wu Yue was not belong to Van lang.

Van Lang it was country with an alliance of tribes, rather than a conventional state. It included tribes spoke different language like Tai/Katay and Austro-Asiatic languages, tribes spoke Mon/Khmer languages were directly related more to Viets/Kinh people than rest of Bai Yue tribes..

Luo Yue writing characters found in Guangxi dated back 4,000 year. It was more ancient, or older than Han Zi which created in Shang dynasty in Middle Terrain of China, which was only from 1,800 year ago. Luo yue was part of Bai Yue, so Luo Yue characters is belong to Bai Yue people too.

Zhuang people was Ou yue, was not Luo Yue people. Van Lang was going to collapse when Qin invaders expanded territory to south. Later on, Shu Fan defeated Hung King and ruled mainly people of Ou Yue and Luo Yue.

I'm busy now, I will turn back.

I created this thread to address historical fabrications,name international scholars that recognize Van Lang or Gojoseon prior to Weiman.

How many times do I have to drill it in your head being Han or not is not a matter of bloodline but cultural identification.

I already addressed your lies Minyue people were forced into area between Huai and Chang Jiang and revised census studies show that the natives of Southern China were quiet few.

Whether my Jiapu is legitimate or not, is not for you to decide.

Are Vietnamese genealogical records wrong too?

Even H. Maspero agrees that Hung Kings don't exist if anything Hung is a scribal error for Luo.

Minyue,Dianyue,Yelang,Ganyue etc all had their own kings,I already asked you this why don't any other ethnic minority in Southern China have tales about the Hung Kings?

"You are right, Cantonese are Nan Yue people and Wo Yue people so called "Baiyue". Viets people no ralated to Baiyue."

You said that Vietnamese are not related to Baiyue then all of sudden Luoyue are Vietnamese what a joke.

Van Lang never existed get your head out of the gutter.

That is flimsy logic at best,if Luoyue had writing who's to say they didn't adopt it from other Baiyue states or if the other Baiyue states used the same script?

You can't prove whether Zhuang is descended from Ouyue or Luoyue we don't have samples of Baiyue DNA.

 

[Rechoice]

I created this thread to address historical fabrications,

When you like to say about historical fabrication, here is big fabrication in China. Northern Chinese and Southern Chinese don't shared same blood line. You are sinized culturally.

Thks EastSea for picture-graph

.Southern Han Chinese and their relationship with the Baiyue | Page 18

 

[Grand Historian]

When you like to say about historical fabrication, here is big fabrication in China. Northern Chinese and Southern Chinese don't shared same blood line. You are sinized culturally.

Thks EastSea for picture-graph

.Southern Han Chinese and their relationship with the Baiyue | Page 18

How many times do I have to address this,this is autosomal DNA not Y DNA.

I'm not going to argue that Southern Han's are descended maternally from the natives however our paternal side is from the central plains.

Lets debunk each of your lies one by one.

Rechoice logic:Van Lang existed because our history books say so.

My answer:No contemporary sources state its existence or its size,not internationally recognize by scholars,no archaeological sources,Southern Han and minorities don't have any myths or stories about the.

Rechoice logic:Goujian sought help from the Hung Kings.

My answer:WuYue Chunqiu,Yue jue shu etc never stated this event.

Rechoice logic:Southern Han Chinese are not true Han Chinese,descended from Baiyue.

My answer:Han is a culture,Baiyue were evicted from their lands,Y chromosome is proportional to Northern Han Chinese,doesn't match historical texts,inability to prove what is Baiyue DNA.

Rechoice logic: Dai Viet su ky toan thu states that Van Lang ruled a vast amount of land in Southern China.

My answer:No archaeological evidence,Kham dinh Viet su Thong giam coung muc disagrees,no contemporary sources.

Rechoice logic: Dai Viet su ky toan thu states that Shu Pan ruled the Luoyue and Ouyue tribes however this is untrue.

My answer:Cherry picking as usual,Shui Jing Zhu stated that Shu Pan conquered the Luoyue with 30,000 soldiers.

Rechoice logic:Southern Han Chinese were slaves of Han Chinese,Mongols and Manchurians.

My answer:See opening post.

Rechoice logic:I don't need to provide any sources go look up these sources yourself.

My answer:I proceeded to look up ancient texts and show that Rechoice is lying.

Rechocie logic:I understand Chinese and Vietnamese history better than Grand Historian.

My answer:I can read Classical Chinese and you can't simple as that.

Rechoice:Southern Han Chinese don't speak Mandarin thus they are non-Chinese.

My answer:See opening post for explanation.

In conclusion we can see that Rechoice and his ilk are act incredulously and are unwilling to share their sources.

 

[Snomannen]

Yes, their cultural heritages were completely destroyed by the Khmer Rouge gangsters.

But anyway, the Cambodians and Laotians show no interests on history. They are followers of the strict concept of Buddhism. Their main premise says, the suffering of the world bases on covetousness and deception and that salvation is only attainable if one understands the world and its processes are insignificant and illusory.

is that something you can learn from our neighbors?

Being ignorant is one of the way of gaining happiness, I guess~?

 

[Grand Historian]

Chinese also thought that Genghis Khan of Mongol, Kublai of Yuan, Jin, Liao, and Manchu Qing to be Chinese.

You are the one who is shameless. Falsifying evidence. I do not appreciate liars. What I have wrote about the Hung King ancestor, Viêm Đế (炎帝) họ Thần Nông, was the translation of the opening of Kỷ Hồng Bàng Thị, Đại Việt Sử Ký Ngoại Kỷ Toàn Thư - Quyển I, which was used as the official history taught during the Nguyen Dynasty and other Dynasties before it.

According to Sima Qian, Huangdi the Yellow Emperor is your ancestor. The Yellow Emperor lives 500 years (eighteen generations) after Viêm Đế and his descendants.

Bro, you should argue with Sima Qian. I am not the person who recorded your history.

The text I posted is from the 欽定大南會典事例 which was compiled during the Nguyen dynasty.

These non-Han emperors claimed to be Chinese and held sacrifices to honor the previous dynasties,I don't need to go over this again the Yuan,Qing etc all claimed to be rulers of Zhongguo.

Look at Qing era treaties,the Great Qing is synonymous with China.

The 大越史記全書 has many flaws that cannot be glossed over.

Regardless I'll go over the claims over and over again until Vietnamese nationalists stop pestering me.(My Japanese published copy of 大越史記全書 dates to 1868 so expect some minor discrepancies.)

1.There's no archaeological evidence of the existence of Hung Kings or Van Lang,there's no point in me asking for them as no one ever presents them.

2.都峯州。The capital was situated in Fengzhou.

The usage of the word zhou(州) in this context is a Sui-Tang naming convention,therefore Fengzhou is an anachronism.
The Problems with “châu” and Phong Châu | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

3.其國東夾南海。西抵巴蜀。北至洞庭湖。南接狐猻國。卽占城國。今廣南是也
To the east it bordered the southern sea,the west Ba Shu, to the north Dongting Lake and to the south Hu Sun(Champa),which is present day Guangnan province(Le dynasty).

according to 欽定越史通鑑綱目:洞庭地夾兩湖實在百粵之北巴蜀猶隔雋滇(今屬雲南) 不相接壤舊史侈大其辭殆與後蜀王之事皆屬傳虛而未之。
Lake Dongting is situated between the two Hu's ie Hunan and Hubei. Lake Dongting is North of the Baiyue. Ba and Shu were separated from Van Lang by Xi and Dian(both located in modern day Yunnan),thus Van Lang did not share a border. The old texts are obviously exaggerated. Furthermore this and King Shu Pan are not credible and have never been substantiated.

考也況所分十五部皆交阯朱鳶以內全無一部在北可證其誣也
The demarcation of the 15 regions are within the lands of Jiaozhi and Zhuyuan,not a single piece of land is north of these areas.

This phrase is used in the Huayang Guozhi showing that it is just a mimicry.
The Huayang guozhi and Early Vietnamese History | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

4..分國為十五部。曰交趾。曰朱鳶。曰武寧。曰福祿。曰越裳。日寧海。曰陽泉。曰陸海。曰武定。曰懷驩。曰九真。曰平文。曰新興。曰九德。
Van Lang was divided into 15 commanderies:Jiaozhi,Zhuchuan,Wuning,Fulu,Yuechang,Ninghai,Yangquan,Luhai,Wuding,Huaihuan,Jiuzhen,Pingwen,Xinxing,Jiude.

欽定越史通鑑綱目 even has passages that claims those commanderies were all located in Northern Vietnam not Southern China.

山南 (今河內南定興安地是) 古交阯部
Jiaozhi commandery was located in Shannan(Nguyen era Henei,Nanding and Xingan).

山西古朱鳶福祿部
Zhuchuan and Fulu commanderies were located in Shanxi.

5.嶺南摭怪 is the basis of the the Hung King myth,yet the region Lingnan is a far larger area then Northern Vietnam,the Han and ethnic minorities of that region don't recognize this myth.

6.Texts dating to the warring states and Han dynasty fail to mention Van Lang.

You claimed the information about the Hung Kings was taught in previous dynasties when 大越史記 doesn't even contain this information.

There's no mention of Hung Kings in the Shiji,neither did Sima Qian claim that Chinese can only be descended from Huangdi.

Plenty of surnames trace their ancestry to Yandi/Shennong including the Jiang(姜),Lu(呂),Xie(謝) etc tell me are Jiang Ziya,Lu Bu and Xie An all Vietnamese?

 

[Grand Historian]

京北 (今北寧地是) 古武寧部
Wuning commandery was located in Jingbei(Nguyen era Beining).

順化(今廣治之海陵至廣南之奠盤地是) 古越裳部
Yuechang commandery was located in Shunhua(Nguyen era Hailing of Guangtai province to Dian Pan of Guangnan province).

安邦 (今廣安地是) 古寧海部
Ninghai commandery was located in Anbang(Nguyen ear Guang'an)

海陽古陽泉部
Yangquan commandery was located in Haiyang.

諒山古陸海部
Luhai commandery was located in Liangshan.

太原高平古武定部內外地
Wuding commandery was located in Taiyuan and Gaoping.

乂安古懷驩部
Huaihuan commandery was located in Yi'an.

清化古九真部
Jiuzhen commandery is located in Qinghua.

興化宣光古新興部
Xinxing commandery was located in Xinghua and Xuanguang.

 

[SamDNguyen]

@Grand Historian. I don't not represent the Nguyen Dynasty nor do I represent the whole Vietnamese people. However, I will try my best to tackle this topic to the best of my knowledge. As you my know that I do not claim to be an expert of History. I hope to gain more knowledge through this friendly discussion with you.

From reading History, I understand that the priority of any government is to keep peace and to ensure its prosperity by maintaining its rule over all ethnicities together under one house, as is in the case with the influxes Hoa immigrants during the Nguyen era. Same can be said about the Qing Dynasty with The Sacred Edict written by Kang Hsi (康熙帝), the third emperor of Manchu-led Qing Empire of China. He wrote the sixteen sections of The Sacred Edict to promote and portray his ideal hierarchical and collective society, which reflects Confucian values based on his affection for the traditional Chinese values in order to keep Hoa citizen from migrating away or starting rebellions within the country.

Khâm Định Đại Nam Hội Điển Sự Lệ was written under the Nguyen Dynasty Classic Genre Association. However, this encyclopedia recorded the classic methods, procedures and data relating to the organization and operation of a dynasty, which was compiled in the mid-nineteenth century. The volume was compiled meticulously, lasted 12 years (1843- 1855).

The Kham Dinh Dai Nam Assembly is a book containing a vast amount of knowledge. It consists of 262 books, with more than 8,000 manuscript pages translated from the early 60th century and was vetted twice. Institute of History and Thuan Hoa Publishing House publication, the first edition of 8 episodes.

According to this book, the Nguyen Court issued a rule to organize the worshipping ceremony of Hung Kings Ancestry on March 10th of the lunar calendar and ordered the Nguyen Kings to offer pecks of fragrant sticky grain rice for the ceremony.

Here is an article by Imperial Order (sorry I couldn't post links. You would have to search the title)
History of the Imperial Nguyen dynasty of Vietnam
- a genealogical accounts

According to Sima Qian's accounts, in Shiji, the Bai Yue would be traced to the same origin, as the descendants of Lord Yu the Great. Sima Qian stated that the people of Nan Yue and Min Yue, i.e., are descendants of the Ancient (Gu) Yue, must have retained the spirits of Lord Yu. However, Vietnamese (Lạc Việt and Âu Việt) do not claim this as part of their linage. Viets who claims this, are those with ancestry traced back to Mân Việt and Ngô Việt or to the regions where these kingdoms once held court.

Vietnam have two part of history; internal and external. The internal part starts from Lạc Long Quân (雒龍君) and Âu Cơ (嫗姬) and down; It only deals with history within our boundaries. The external part focused on the lineages from Thần Nông thị (神農氏), specifically to Đế Minh (帝明) up to Lạc Long Quân and Âu Cơ.

 

[Kolaps]

School nationalist education are basically a SHIT!

It's not just Vietnam, but also in RoC and PRC too.

I have been very long promoted it here, to tell us how brainwashed we are.


If Taiwan became independent, we will have the funny and twisted nationalist education too.

You laugh, I laugh, but brainwashed new Republic of Taiwan students don't understand.


We should able to see our culture and history clear and unbiased.

 

[Rechoice]

The text I posted is from the 欽定大南會典事例 which was compiled during the Nguyen dynasty.

These non-Han emperors claimed to be Chinese and held sacrifices to honor the previous dynasties,I don't need to go over this again the Yuan,Qing etc all claimed to be rulers of Zhongguo.

Look at Qing era treaties,the Great Qing is synonymous with China.

The 大越史記全書 has many flaws that cannot be glossed over.

Regardless I'll go over the claims over and over again until Vietnamese nationalists stop pestering me.(My Japanese published copy of 大越史記全書 dates to 1868 so expect some minor discrepancies.)

1.There's no archaeological evidence of the existence of Hung Kings or Van Lang,there's no point in me asking for them as no one ever presents them.

2.都峯州。The capital was situated in Fengzhou.
View attachment 141493
The usage of the word zhou(州) in this context is a Sui-Tang naming convention,therefore Fengzhou is an anachronism.
The Problems with “châu” and Phong Châu | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

3.其國東夾南海。西抵巴蜀。北至洞庭湖。南接狐猻國。卽占城國。今廣南是也
To the east it bordered the southern sea,the west Ba Shu, to the north Dongting Lake and to the south Hu Sun(Champa),which is present day Guangnan province(Le dynasty).
View attachment 141494

according to 欽定越史通鑑綱目:洞庭地夾兩湖實在百粵之北巴蜀猶隔雋滇(今屬雲南) 不相接壤舊史侈大其辭殆與後蜀王之事皆屬傳虛而未之。
Lake Dongting is situated between the two Hu's ie Hunan and Hubei. Lake Dongting is North of the Baiyue. Ba and Shu were separated from Van Lang by Xi and Dian(both located in modern day Yunnan),thus Van Lang did not share a border. The old texts are obviously exaggerated. Furthermore this and King Shu Pan are not credible and have never been substantiated.

考也況所分十五部皆交阯朱鳶以內全無一部在北可證其誣也
The demarcation of the 15 regions are within the lands of Jiaozhi and Zhuyuan,not a single piece of land is north of these areas.
View attachment 141495

This phrase is used in the Huayang Guozhi showing that it is just a mimicry.
The Huayang guozhi and Early Vietnamese History | Le Minh Khai's SEAsian History Blog

4..分國為十五部。曰交趾。曰朱鳶。曰武寧。曰福祿。曰越裳。日寧海。曰陽泉。曰陸海。曰武定。曰懷驩。曰九真。曰平文。曰新興。曰九德。
Van Lang was divided into 15 commanderies:Jiaozhi,Zhuchuan,Wuning,Fulu,Yuechang,Ninghai,Yangquan,Luhai,Wuding,Huaihuan,Jiuzhen,Pingwen,Xinxing,Jiude.
View attachment 141496

欽定越史通鑑綱目 even has passages that claims those commanderies were all located in Northern Vietnam not Southern China.

山南 (今河內南定興安地是) 古交阯部
Jiaozhi commandery was located in Shannan(Nguyen era Henei,Nanding and Xingan).
View attachment 141497

山西古朱鳶福祿部
Zhuchuan and Fulu commanderies were located in Shanxi.
View attachment 141498

5.嶺南摭怪 is the basis of the the Hung King myth,yet the region Lingnan is a far larger area then Northern Vietnam,the Han and ethnic minorities of that region don't recognize this myth.

6.Texts dating to the warring states and Han dynasty fail to mention Van Lang.

You claimed the information about the Hung Kings was taught in previous dynasties when 大越史記 doesn't even contain this information.

There's no mention of Hung Kings in the Shiji,neither did Sima Qian claim that Chinese can only be descended from Huangdi.

Plenty of surnames trace their ancestry to Yandi/Shennong including the Jiang(姜),Lu(呂),Xie(謝) etc tell me are Jiang Ziya,Lu Bu and Xie An all Vietnamese?

京北 (今北寧地是) 古武寧部
Wuning commandery was located in Jingbei(Nguyen era Beining).
View attachment 141499

順化(今廣治之海陵至廣南之奠盤地是) 古越裳部
Yuechang commandery was located in Shunhua(Nguyen era Hailing of Guangtai province to Dian Pan of Guangnan province).
View attachment 141500

安邦 (今廣安地是) 古寧海部
Ninghai commandery was located in Anbang(Nguyen ear Guang'an)
View attachment 141501

海陽古陽泉部
Yangquan commandery was located in Haiyang.
View attachment 141502

諒山古陸海部
Luhai commandery was located in Liangshan.
View attachment 141503

太原高平古武定部內外地
Wuding commandery was located in Taiyuan and Gaoping.
View attachment 141504

乂安古懷驩部
Huaihuan commandery was located in Yi'an.
View attachment 141505

清化古九真部
Jiuzhen commandery is located in Qinghua.
View attachment 141506

興化宣光古新興部
Xinxing commandery was located in Xinghua and Xuanguang.
View attachment 141507

Hua Xia and Van Lang is myth. It is debated in Vietnam. I have been told you that over 4,000 year ago the Red river delta was under level of sea water.

chinese and Vietnamese historian didn't know that 150,000 year ago, both Vietnamese and Chinese came from Africa. There was not such kind of "heaven" or "huangdi" existed in the world.

 

[SamDNguyen]

Hua Xia and Van Lang is myth. It is debated in Vietnam. I have been told you that over 4,000 year ago the Red river delta was under level of sea water.

chinese and Vietnamese historian didn't know that 150,000 year ago, both Vietnamese and Chinese came from Africa. There was not such kind of "heaven" or "huangdi" existed in the world.

Good point. However, there are great flood legends, mythology, or history whatever you like to call it. It was somewhat recorded and passed down through the belief system of nature's fury of the era where people retreated to the mountainous regions and dealt with the aftermath through the development of flood control methods.

In Vietnam we have the story of "The Essences of the Mountain and of the Water" (Sơn Tinh – Thủy Tinh;山精- 水精) around 23rd-3rd century BC during Văn Lang era of Hồng Bàng Dynasty and ended during the reign of Hùng King the 18th.

In China there is the story of "The Great Flood of China" (大洪水) 23rd century BC during King Yao and "Classic of Mountain and Sea" (山海經) around 22th century BC during the reign of Lord Yu the Great of Xia Dynasty.

Edit:Attach Image

 

[jkroo]

Wow, it's a great work of @Grand Historian. Please work on it though we all know what they are doing and how they are fabricating.
Kindly remind you, please keep certain distance from those people who have mentality issues.

 

[SamDNguyen]

Khâm Định Việt Sử Thông Giám Cương Mục (Completely Reflecting the History of Viet; 1856-1884 - During Nguyen Dynasty. The encyclopedia has 53 books with 1204 chapters.

Below are the first few pages.

 

[Viet]

Khâm Định Việt Sử Thông Giám Cương Mục (Completely Reflecting the History of Viet; 1856-1884 - During Nguyen Dynasty. The encyclopedia has 53 books with 1204 chapters.

Below are the first few pages.View attachment 144888 View attachment 144889 View attachment 144890 View attachment 144891 View attachment 144892 View attachment 144893 View attachment 144894 View attachment 144895 View attachment 144896 View attachment 144897

bro, can you read chinese?

 

[SamDNguyen]

Confucian Classic Thư Kinh (Shujing), one of few classic remaining books that wasn't destroyed by Qin Shi Huang, told of an event in 2353 BC of an envoy from Việt Thường (Yue Shang) one of the 15 province of Văn Lang Nation, who came to King Yao and presented him with a gift. The gift was a 1000 year old sacred tortoise baring strange inscriptions that related the history from the beginning of the world craved onto its back. King Yao ordered it be transcribed, which later became known as the "Tortoise Calendar". The inscriptions were described to resemble tadpoles.

 

[Grand Historian]

@Grand Historian. I don't not represent the Nguyen Dynasty nor do I represent the whole Vietnamese people. However, I will try my best to tackle this topic to the best of my knowledge. As you my know that I do not claim to be an expert of History. I hope to gain more knowledge through this friendly discussion with you.

From reading History, I understand that the priority of any government is to keep peace and to ensure its prosperity by maintaining its rule over all ethnicities together under one house, as is in the case with the influxes Hoa immigrants during the Nguyen era. Same can be said about the Qing Dynasty with The Sacred Edict written by Kang Hsi (康熙帝), the third emperor of Manchu-led Qing Empire of China. He wrote the sixteen sections of The Sacred Edict to promote and portray his ideal hierarchical and collective society, which reflects Confucian values based on his affection for the traditional Chinese values in order to keep Hoa citizen from migrating away or starting rebellions within the country.

Khâm Định Đại Nam Hội Điển Sự Lệ was written under the Nguyen Dynasty Classic Genre Association. However, this encyclopedia recorded the classic methods, procedures and data relating to the organization and operation of a dynasty, which was compiled in the mid-nineteenth century. The volume was compiled meticulously, lasted 12 years (1843- 1855).

The Kham Dinh Dai Nam Assembly is a book containing a vast amount of knowledge. It consists of 262 books, with more than 8,000 manuscript pages translated from the early 60th century and was vetted twice. Institute of History and Thuan Hoa Publishing House publication, the first edition of 8 episodes.

According to this book, the Nguyen Court issued a rule to organize the worshipping ceremony of Hung Kings Ancestry on March 10th of the lunar calendar and ordered the Nguyen Kings to offer pecks of fragrant sticky grain rice for the ceremony.

Here is an article by Imperial Order (sorry I couldn't post links. You would have to search the title)
History of the Imperial Nguyen dynasty of Vietnam
- a genealogical accounts

According to Sima Qian's accounts, in Shiji, the Bai Yue would be traced to the same origin, as the descendants of Lord Yu the Great. Sima Qian stated that the people of Nan Yue and Min Yue, i.e., are descendants of the Ancient (Gu) Yue, must have retained the spirits of Lord Yu. However, Vietnamese (Lạc Việt and Âu Việt) do not claim this as part of their linage. Viets who claims this, are those with ancestry traced back to Mân Việt and Ngô Việt or to the regions where these kingdoms once held court.

Vietnam have two part of history; internal and external. The internal part starts from Lạc Long Quân (雒龍君) and Âu Cơ (嫗姬) and down; It only deals with history within our boundaries. The external part focused on the lineages from Thần Nông thị (神農氏), specifically to Đế Minh (帝明) up to Lạc Long Quân and Âu Cơ.

In the end you are unable or unwilling to show textual or archaeological evidence that Vietnamese myths are grounded in reality,the source(欽定越史通鑑綱目) I posted dates from Nguyen dynasty where they even argue against the territory of Van Lang exceeding present day Vietnam.

Except Sima Qian and Han era Chinese didn't speak Baiyue,recent research has shown Baiyue was a catch all for Miao-Yao,Austro Asiatic,Tai-Kadai and Austronesian languages there was never a single Yue identity that united them neither did all claim to be descended from Goujian.

Sima Qian also claimed the Xiongnu were descended from the Xia,there's a reason why myths and legends stay myths and legends.

I already explained this before Vietnamese who claimed ancestry from the modern day provinces of Fujian,Zhejiang or Jiangsu claimed ancestry from either Han or Sinicized people show me records where they claimed to be a Minyue or Wu or Yue nobles.

Neither are Luoyue or Ouyue Vietnamese,we have no records of their language and no DNA samples to compare with present day populations.

Repeating a lie ten thousand times doesn't make it true,the truth is that Yue applied to a wide category of people ranging from northern China to southern Vietnam simply hijacking the term doesn't make every single Yue entity in history "Vietnamese".