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Vietnam vice minister apologizes to Japan for “$2 Billion loan” gaffe

I seriously didn't know Japan accounted for over 30 percent of the foreign aid money coming into Vietnam. Very generous on your guys' part but...what were you guys thinking? o_O

We can easily remove our investment part in this country. This is afterall our Tax Yen being used to develop a foreign land, and from what i am seeing / reading, a very ungrateful country at that.
 
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We can easily remove our investment part in this country. This is afterall our Tax Yen being used to develop a foreign land, and from what i am seeing / reading, a very ungrateful country at that.

That's probably the smart move. The Viet government's history of refusing to honor foreign debts is apparently such a time honored tradition that your average Viet on the street knows and jokes about it. Being a deadbeat and not paying bills is considered extremely shameful in East Asian culture. But Japan would be wise to remember that when dealing with Vietnam, it's not in East Asia anymore.
 
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Its insulting to read ungracious comments by some Vietnamese, indeed. Considering Japan is the LARGEST investor in Vietnam. Definitely Japan can have greater Return on Investments say in countries like Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines or even Indonesia. Yet, Tokyo has saw the potential in Vietnam. Irregardless of the risks in Vietnam.

Very disheartening to read some of the comments.

LOOOL :rofl: Our governments in the West/U.S together with our foreign aid exploitation tools i.e IMF/World Bank have also been saying the same thing to the African countries they have dupe for decades, they are asking for a Thank You/gratitude in return as well.:lol:
I already told you no country 'aids' another for free bro(without getting some much more in return) not even 'the world's most powerful democracy' U.S, much less Japan. Its like when i hear some of my country people say China should be grateful to us in the west/U.S for investing in/making their country prosperous/wealthy, as if we were angels/Jesus(thats if you arer christian though.lol) to aid countries for free. Only naive people say that man.:omghaha:So please chill on that my good friend.:D
 
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That's probably the smart move. The Viet government's history of refusing to honor foreign debts is apparently such a time honored tradition that your average Viet on the street knows and jokes about it. Being a deadbeat and not paying bills is considered extremely shameful in East Asian culture. But Japan would be wise to remember that when dealing with Vietnam, it's not in East Asia anymore.

What just amazes me is how some members said the following:

to quote @NiceGuy, "And why JP keep sending money ?? Juts like China Govt. , they want to maintain weak VietNam nation, so we can not keep expanding and taking control of the whole ASEAN region bcz of corruption problem. Strong Vn simply is too bad and bring lots of trouble for both China-JP."

How does one really respond to that? Only in one's wildest dreams did i expect something like this. He even went on to say in another post that Japan's ODA to Vietnam is hurting "poor average Vietnamese". Oh I'm sorry, i guess the thousands of Vietnamese whom are given jobs in the construction of Japanese projects in Vietnam are ignored. Or the $5 billion which Japan gave to Vietnam in 2012, 2013, respectively is just ignored.

Sorry, but it is the JAPANESE TAX PAYER that is paying for these godamned ODA funds we give to developing nations. That should at least be respected, honored by some Vietnamese members here. Instead of being ungrateful clods!

Afterall, its OUR money going into your country. As if Vietnam invests anything to Japan....
 
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That's probably the smart move. The Viet government's history of refusing to honor foreign debts is apparently such a time honored tradition that your average Viet on the street knows and jokes about it. Being a deadbeat and not paying bills is considered extremely shameful in East Asian culture. But Japan would be wise to remember that when dealing with Vietnam, it's not in East Asia anymore.

Though i dont agree with your comment. The bold part cracked me up. :lol::lol::lol::omghaha::omghaha:
 
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LOOOL :rofl: Our governments in the West/U.S together with our foreign aid exploitation tools i.e IMF/World Bank have also been saying the same thing to the African countries they have dupe for decades, they are asking for a Thank You/gratitude in return as well.:lol:
I already told you no country 'aids' another for free bro(without getting some much more in return) not even 'the world's most powerful democracy' U.S, much less Japan. Its like when i hear some of my country people say China should be grateful to us in the west/U.S for investing in/making their country prosperous/wealthy, as if we were angels/Jesus(thats if you arer christian though.lol) to aid countries for free. Only naive people say that man.:omghaha:So please chill on that my good friend.:D

Mike, please review the ODA, JICA history, and you will see that Japan has been helping develop the infrastructure, health, and way of life of developing nations for over 3 decades now. It is out of shear good will.

History | About JICA | JICA

1. History of Official Development Assistance | Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan
 
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What just amazes me is how some members said the following:

to quote @NiceGuy, "And why JP keep sending money ?? Juts like China Govt. , they want to maintain weak VietNam nation, so we can not keep expanding and taking control of the whole ASEAN region bcz of corruption problem. Strong Vn simply is too bad and bring lots of trouble for both China-JP."

How does one really respond to that? Only in one's wildest dreams did i expect something like this. He even went on to say in another post that Japan's ODA to Vietnam is hurting "poor average Vietnamese". Oh I'm sorry, i guess the thousands of Vietnamese whom are given jobs in the construction of Japanese projects in Vietnam are ignored. Or the $5 billion which Japan gave to Vietnam in 2012, 2013, respectively is just ignored.

Sorry, but it is the JAPANESE TAX PAYER that is paying for these godamned ODA funds we give to developing nations. That should at least be respected, honored by some Vietnamese members here. Instead of being ungrateful clods!

Afterall, its OUR money going into your country. As if Vietnam invests anything to Japan....


NiceGuy is quite delusional but no more so than many of his Viet brethren. I'd take his views with a grain of salt. After all, he also thinks the United States will help Vietnam conquer Thailand, Myanmar, and Cambodia and establish a Vietnamese Sub-Mekong empire. In the very same breath he says the US will help Vietnam defeat China because the US doesn't like Chinese imperialism over some uninhabited SCS rocks. Whether or not the US will defeat China on Vietnam's behalf before or after the US helps Vietnam with their empire, he didn't specify. But he knows it will happen. If you don't believe me, re-read some of the "debates" NiceGuy and myself have had in the past. You'll be entertained for certain. :cheers:

As I said, take NiceGuy's views with a grain of salt. Did I say grain? I meant a truckload of salt.
 
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Mike, please review the ODA, JICA history, and you will see that Japan has been helping develop the infrastructure, health, and way of life of developing nations for over 3 decades now. It is out of shear good will.

History | About JICA | JICA

1. History of Official Development Assistance | Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan

I value any development help Japan can offer Vietnam, though the Vietnamese should respond with greater appreciation, however I feel for you as our foreign aide programs are just as convoluted and frustrating. Sometimes our aid is a cover for intelligence operations... that ruins our reputation. Sometimes we just don't know when to stop with the aid. Case and point: we are still providing China with foreign aid!!! What the hell is that about!!!

Still, if Vietnam can garner and express a greater appreciation, then Japanese assistance will do wonders for improving and growing joint Japan-Vietnam ties and pave the way for future cooperation. Rather then aid packages, Japan and Vietnam should increase mutually beneficial bilateral trade ties. That's aide that benefits all parties.
 
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I value any development help Japan can offer Vietnam, though the Vietnamese should respond with greater appreciation, however I feel for you as our foreign aide programs are just as convoluted and frustrating. Sometimes our aid is a cover for intelligence operations... that ruins our reputation. Sometimes we just don't know when to stop with the aid. Case and point: we are still providing China with foreign aid!!! What the hell is that about!!!

Still, if Vietnam can garner and express a greater appreciation, then Japanese assistance will do wonders for improving and growing joint Japan-Vietnam ties and pave the way for future cooperation. Rather then aid packages, Japan and Vietnam should increase mutually beneficial bilateral trade ties. That's aide that benefits all parties.

American "foreign aid" to China is usually in the form of "pro-democracy" organizations. Not so much aid as it is a slush fund for intelligence operatives. I'm sure China would be more than happy if the US stopped that particular type of "aid."

That's why when some (not all) Americans decry their "aid" to China as if they're being magnanimous, I'm not sure if they're truly idiots or just arrogant with a large dose of ignorance. :rofl:
 
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Mike, please review the ODA, JICA history, and you will see that Japan has been helping develop the infrastructure, health, and way of life of developing nations for over 3 decades now. It is out of shear good will.

History | About JICA | JICA

1. History of Official Development Assistance | Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan

Asi told you, we too have been doing this in Africa for much longer than Japan can even dream of. So we are much more experienced in this tricky merry system. No country does anything/'aids the other out of shear good willbros. You might want to read how our governemnt has been doing same thing with Africa, but for a much more longer period than Japan-Vietnam 'aid' relationship.

Aid to Africa: donations from west mask '$60bn looting' of continent
UK and wealthy states revel in their generosity while allowing their companies to plunder Africa's resources, say NGO
MDG--Parched-soil-in-the--011.jpg

Parched soil in the Greater Upper Nile, South Sudan. Climate change mitigation has been used as a smokescreen to drain Africa's resources, say NGOs. Photograph: PA
Western countries are using aid to Africa as a smokescreen to hide the "sustained looting" of the continent as it loses nearly $60bn a year through tax evasion, climate change mitigation, and the flight of profits earned by foreign multinational companies, a group of NGOs has claimed.

Although sub-Saharan Africa receives $134bn each year in loans, foreign investment and development aid, research released on Tuesday by a group of UK and Africa-based NGOs suggests that $192bn leaves the region, leaving a $58bn shortfall.

The report says that while western countries send about $30bn in development aid to Africa every year, more than six times that amount leaves the continent, "mainly to the same countries providing that aid".

The perception that such aid is helping African countries "has facilitated a perverse reality in which the UK and other wealthy governments celebrate their generosity whilst simultaneously assisting their companies to drain Africa's resources", the report claims. It points out that foreign multinational companies siphon $46bn out of sub-Saharan Africa each year, while $35bn is moved from Africa into tax havens around the world annually.

The study, which also notes that African governments spend $21bn a year on debt repayments, calls for the aid system to be overhauled and made more open.

It says aid sent in the form of loans serves only to contribute to the continent's debt crisis, and recommends that donors should use transparent contracts to ensure development assistance grants can be properly scrutinised by the recipient country's parliament.

"The common understanding is that the UK 'helps' Africa through aid, but in reality this serves as a smokescreen for the billions taken out," said Martin Drewry, director of Health Poverty Action, one of the NGOs behind the report. "Let's use more accurate language. It's sustained looting – the opposite of generous giving – and we should recognise that the City of London is at the heart of the global financial system that facilitates this."

Research by Global Financial Integrity shows Africa's illicit outflows were nearly 50% higher than the average for the global south from 2002-11.The UK-based NGO ActionAid issued a report last year (pdf) that claimed half of large corporate investment in the global south transited through a tax haven.

Supporting regulatory reforms would empower African governments "to control the operations of investing foreign companies", the report says, adding: "Countries must support efforts under way in the United Nations to draw up a binding international agreement on transnational corporations to protect human rights."

But NGOs must also change, according to Drewry: "We need to move beyond our focus on aid levels and communicate the bigger truth – exposing the real relationship between rich and poor, and holding leaders to account."

The report was authored by 13 UK and Africa-based NGOs, including:Health Poverty Action, Jubilee Debt Campaign, World Development Movement, African Forum and Network on Debt and Development,Friends of the Earth Africa, Tax Justice Network, People's Health Movement Kenya, Zimbabwe and UK, War on Want, Community Working Group on Health Zimbabwe, Medact, Healthworkers4All, Friends of the Earth South Africa, JA!Justiça Ambiental/Friends of the Earth Mozambique.

Sarah-Jayne Clifton, director of Jubilee Debt Campaign, said: "Tackling inequality between Africa and the rest of the world means tackling the root causes of its debt dependency, its loss of government revenue by tax dodging, and the other ways the continent is being plundered. Here in the UK we can start with our role as a major global financial centre and network of tax havens, complicit in siphoning money out of Africa."

A UK government spokesman said: "The UK put tax and transparency at the heart of our G8 presidency last year and we are actively working with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development to ensure companies are paying the tax they should and helping developing countries collect the tax they are owed."


Aid to Africa: donations from west mask '$60bn looting' of continent | Global development | The Guardian

Now you be the judge yourself..:bounce::D
 
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Asi told you, we too have been doing this in Africa for much longer than Japan can even dream of. So we are much more experienced in this tricky merry system. No country does anything/'aids the other out of shear good willbros. You might want to read how our governemnt has been doing same thing with Africa, but for a much more longer period than Japan-Vietnam 'aid' relationship.

Aid to Africa: donations from west mask '$60bn looting' of continent
UK and wealthy states revel in their generosity while allowing their companies to plunder Africa's resources, say NGO
MDG--Parched-soil-in-the--011.jpg

Parched soil in the Greater Upper Nile, South Sudan. Climate change mitigation has been used as a smokescreen to drain Africa's resources, say NGOs. Photograph: PA
Western countries are using aid to Africa as a smokescreen to hide the "sustained looting" of the continent as it loses nearly $60bn a year through tax evasion, climate change mitigation, and the flight of profits earned by foreign multinational companies, a group of NGOs has claimed.

Although sub-Saharan Africa receives $134bn each year in loans, foreign investment and development aid, research released on Tuesday by a group of UK and Africa-based NGOs suggests that $192bn leaves the region, leaving a $58bn shortfall.

The report says that while western countries send about $30bn in development aid to Africa every year, more than six times that amount leaves the continent, "mainly to the same countries providing that aid".

The perception that such aid is helping African countries "has facilitated a perverse reality in which the UK and other wealthy governments celebrate their generosity whilst simultaneously assisting their companies to drain Africa's resources", the report claims. It points out that foreign multinational companies siphon $46bn out of sub-Saharan Africa each year, while $35bn is moved from Africa into tax havens around the world annually.

The study, which also notes that African governments spend $21bn a year on debt repayments, calls for the aid system to be overhauled and made more open.

It says aid sent in the form of loans serves only to contribute to the continent's debt crisis, and recommends that donors should use transparent contracts to ensure development assistance grants can be properly scrutinised by the recipient country's parliament.

"The common understanding is that the UK 'helps' Africa through aid, but in reality this serves as a smokescreen for the billions taken out," said Martin Drewry, director of Health Poverty Action, one of the NGOs behind the report. "Let's use more accurate language. It's sustained looting – the opposite of generous giving – and we should recognise that the City of London is at the heart of the global financial system that facilitates this."

Research by Global Financial Integrity shows Africa's illicit outflows were nearly 50% higher than the average for the global south from 2002-11.The UK-based NGO ActionAid issued a report last year (pdf) that claimed half of large corporate investment in the global south transited through a tax haven.

Supporting regulatory reforms would empower African governments "to control the operations of investing foreign companies", the report says, adding: "Countries must support efforts under way in the United Nations to draw up a binding international agreement on transnational corporations to protect human rights."

But NGOs must also change, according to Drewry: "We need to move beyond our focus on aid levels and communicate the bigger truth – exposing the real relationship between rich and poor, and holding leaders to account."

The report was authored by 13 UK and Africa-based NGOs, including:Health Poverty Action, Jubilee Debt Campaign, World Development Movement, African Forum and Network on Debt and Development,Friends of the Earth Africa, Tax Justice Network, People's Health Movement Kenya, Zimbabwe and UK, War on Want, Community Working Group on Health Zimbabwe, Medact, Healthworkers4All, Friends of the Earth South Africa, JA!Justiça Ambiental/Friends of the Earth Mozambique.

Sarah-Jayne Clifton, director of Jubilee Debt Campaign, said: "Tackling inequality between Africa and the rest of the world means tackling the root causes of its debt dependency, its loss of government revenue by tax dodging, and the other ways the continent is being plundered. Here in the UK we can start with our role as a major global financial centre and network of tax havens, complicit in siphoning money out of Africa."

A UK government spokesman said: "The UK put tax and transparency at the heart of our G8 presidency last year and we are actively working with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development to ensure companies are paying the tax they should and helping developing countries collect the tax they are owed."


Aid to Africa: donations from west mask '$60bn looting' of continent | Global development | The Guardian

Now you be the judge yourself..:bounce::D

I think there should be a comprehensive study to identify the dichotomies of Western aid packages vs Japanese aid packages to developing countries. The way Japanese Government handles developmental aid, its more of a comprehensive nature, which focuses on long-term relationships.
 
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I value any development help Japan can offer Vietnam, though the Vietnamese should respond with greater appreciation, however I feel for you as our foreign aide programs are just as convoluted and frustrating. Sometimes our aid is a cover for intelligence operations... that ruins our reputation. Sometimes we just don't know when to stop with the aid. Case and point: we are still providing China with foreign aid!!! What the hell is that about!!!

Still, if Vietnam can garner and express a greater appreciation, then Japanese assistance will do wonders for improving and growing joint Japan-Vietnam ties and pave the way for future cooperation. Rather then aid packages, Japan and Vietnam should increase mutually beneficial bilateral trade ties. That's aide that benefits all parties.


I have to say i absolutely agree with the bolded part. That's what i have been waiting to hear from my friend Nihonji or other members on here. Increasing trade is the best solution to help a country imrpove their living standards, Its always a win-win situatiopn(or at worse a win-less win situation), so its still far far far more better than slave-master 'aid' relation, which has been proven to be an huge failure and encouraged the breeding of more corruption in a country without ever helping the common people, nor do they see any tangible benefits of this.

In this regard i was surprise when i visited Africa to see that China is indeed using this method more and more, rather than 'aid'. and i can attest that people in Africa are more grateful to China than towards any other western country(japan included), since the Chinese never give 'aid' per se, hey arther do bsuiness/trade. This makes the people there at least see what they have done. Since at least they can see the projects/benefits the Chinese have brought to them, and their relationship is more trade-trade based. You just have to see at the amount of Africans travelling to China for business/trade/buy and seel goods etc. Its huge, i myself was shocked to see this. Meanwhile little to no african travel to the west/U.S for business/trade. We still consider them as a poor backward region which should be 'aided' rather than traded with.:disagree: This is wrong policy. since it has only encouraged corruption. Though the Chinese method is not the best, but its still better than ours who has been proven to be an abject failure. so we have to change our policies towards the developing world.:close_tema:.
 
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I think there should be a comprehensive study to identify the dichotomies of Western aid packages vs Japanese aid packages to developing countries. The way Japanese Government handles developmental aid, its more of a comprehensive nature, which focuses on long-term relationships.

lool ok, Japans 'aid' method is unique.:enjoy:
 
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I have to say i absolutely agree with the bolded part. That's what i have been waiting to hear from my friend Nihonji or other members on here. Increasing trade is the best solution to help a country imrpove their living standards, Its always a win-win situatiopn(or at worse a win-less win situation), so its still far far far more better than slave-master 'aid' relation, which has been proven to be an huge failure and encouraged the breeding of more corruption in a country without ever helping the common people, nor do they see any tangible benefits of this.

In this regard i was surprise when i visited Africa to see that China is indeed using this method more and more, rather than 'aid'. and i can attest that people in Africa are more grateful to China than towards any other western country(japan included), since the Chinese never give 'aid' per se, hey arther do bsuiness/trade. This makes the people there at least see what they have done. Since at least they can see the projects/benefits the Chinese have brought to them, and their relationship is more trade-trade based. You just have to see at the amount of Africans travelling to China for business/trade/buy and seel goods etc. Its huge, i myself was shocked to see this. Meanwhile little to no african travel to the west/U.S for business/trade. We still consider them as a poor backward region which should be 'aided' rather than traded with.:disagree: This is wrong policy. since it has only encouraged corruption. Though the Chinese method is not the best, but its still better than ours who has been proven to be an abject failure. so we have to change our policies towards the developing world.:close_tema:.

We are training 10,000 Vietnamese engineers as we speak, physicians and nurses from asean member states. As for student visas we provide a number to partners in the middle east, north america, europe and in asia.

Given, Japan can afford to send large amounts of people to developing regions like Africa due to China's shear size. With a population of over 1.4 billion, sending 1 million overseas Chinese in say Africa is doable for them. 1 million is nothing for China. But say compare countries like Britain , which has a population of only 60 million, or France which has a population of around 63 million, or Japan which has a population of only 128 million, sending 1 million abroad is massive. That's too much of a population strain. Don't you agree?
 
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