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Vietnam vice minister apologizes to Japan for “$2 Billion loan” gaffe

Come on, there are no free lunch in the life. Vietnam must pay ODA loan because this is a long-term loan offered by Japan to friendly developing countries at a reasonable interest rate. And, Japan contractors will be choosen when constructing a project. But, I still admire the help from Japan to upgrade the infrastructure in Vietnam, hope to Vietnamese firm could improve their knowledge when doing with these stricly-standard Japanese companies
JP give ODA to corrupted VN official and caused many death to our poor workers, so, u pay if u like while many of us dont. They dont help us, they r killing us.

They'd better stop giving ODA from now to stop ruining VN in corruption. We can borrow money from World bank wt cheaper interest loan if we can improve our transparency
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$9 million proposed as bonus for contractors
Last update: 17:00 | 03/09/2013

VietNamNet Bridge - For the first time in Vietnam, the contractors who finished their works ahead of schedule have been proposed by the Thang Long Project Management Unit to be awarded with nearly VND180 billion ($9 million).



20130903161804-1.jpg


The surface of the new road. Photo: VNE




Thang Long Project Management Unit has asked the Ministry of Transportation to approve bonuses worth VND179.9 billion to the contractor of the Mai Dich - Bac Linh Dam overhead road.

The Samwhan (South Korea) - CIENCO4 (Vietnam) contractors are proposed to earn VND77.7 billion ($3.8 million) of reward for completing Package 1 of Mai Dich - Trung Hoa road 263 days before schedule and Sumitomo Mitsui (Japan) with VND102 billion reward for completing the Package 2 of Trung Hoa - Thanh Xuan road for 454 days before schedule.

This is the first time in Vietnam that contractors are proposed by the investor for rewards. According to the Thang Long Project Management Unit, the total value of the benefits from the shortened schedule of the two packages is about VND1.4 trillion ($70 million).

Under the terms of the contract signed between the investor and the contractors, if the contractors complete the packages ahead of schedule, they will be awarded with 1.12 percent of the contract value for each 28 days shortened, but the total reward must not exceed 12 percent of the benefits from the early completion.

The road is 9 km long, with a total investment of VND5.547 trillion, using ODA from Japan. The value of Package 1 is VND1.416 trillion and Package 2 at VND1.079 trillion. The work was kicked off in June 2010 and completed in October 2012. This is the most modern overhead road in Vietnam.

According to the Thang Long Project Management Unit, the bonus of VND180 billion, if being approved, will be deducted from the project fund, which is Japan's ODA.

VNExpress online newswire recently reported that although the above road was completed 18 months ahead schedule, its quality is not very good because the surface at some sections was subsided. The Thang Long Project Management Unit explained that the subsidence was caused by overloaded trucks.

They added that the work still has two year warranty so the contractors will have to fix the errors.


English - VietNamNet News

They (Sumitomo Mitsui) made a very bad quality high way, but they still asking for reward ?? dafuq !
 
What are you talking about? Are you insinuating that Japanese ODA purposely collaborated as to excuse the fact that Vietnam has corruption? Please don't be asinine. It is not our problem that there is a REAL problem of corruption in Vietnam. In fact, we have already given a Note Verbale of our opposition to Vietnam's corruption issue and requirement of them (Your Government) to address this issue. Or this will be a barrier to further increases in ODA.

Please accept responsibility for your own government's failures, instead of placing blame on Japan.
stop pretend innocent, you always kickback the ODA receiver in the past. Spoor Vietnamese have to lay on the unfair burden of paying back I the next generations. never believe the Japanese.
 
In fact, JP Govt. is very smart, they continue to give ODA to corrupted Vn officials even know that Vnese will never return the loan to them or just return 15 % back like we paid to debt to Soviet union.

And why JP keep sending money ?? Juts like China Govt. , they want to maintain weak VietNam nation
stop pretend innocent, you always kickback the ODA receiver in the past. Spoor Vietnamese have to lay on the unfair burden of paying back I the next generations. never believe the Japanese.

Woooow you guys just opened my eyes. I've just quickly search the Web and saw so many articles saying rich countries giving aid to poor African countries is a form of control and neo-colonialism.

So does this mean that Japan is playing this trick with VietNam using their ODA?

They want VietNam to always be in debt to Japan? to create an asymmetric relationship between a strong country (Japan) and a weak country (VietNam)?

So that the future poor Vietnamese generation will always be in debt to Japan?

So that VietNam will always be weak and be exploited and manipulated by Japan?

Is this what you guys are saying? @NiceGuy @wanglaokan

OMG is this true????!!!!
 
Woooow you guys just opened my eyes. I've just quickly search the Web and saw so many articles saying rich countries giving aid to poor African countries is a form of control and neo-colonialism.

So does this mean that Japan is playing this trick with VietNam using their ODA?

They want VietNam to always be in debt to Japan? to create an asymmetric relationship between a strong country (Japan) and a weak country (VietNam)?

So that the future poor Vietnamese generation will always be in debt to Japan?

So that VietNam will always be weak and be exploited and manipulated by Japan?

Is this what you guys are saying? @NiceGuy @wanglaokan

OMG is this true????!!!!

lool yes its true indeed i must confess. Our governments in the west/U.S did the same think with Sub sharan African countries for decades now, and Africa is still a poor/corrupt country(in fact it just got more worse). The insidious aid culture has left African countries more debt-laden, more inflation-prone, more vulnerable to the vagaries of the currency markets and more unattractive to higher-quality investment. Its a game our governments have perfected for decades, while the Japanese seemed to have learned from us with time, China as well seems to be catching up on that, though theirs is a little bit different in that they offer loans and carry out the projects themselves or exchange it for purchase of raw materials, though its better its still not the best.
For me Aid is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster.i say this because Africa is a continent i know very well and have visited several times and even lived briefly in some. So i can see for myself that things only got worse with time.
For me i can still understand Emergency aid like in case of natural disasters/tsunami/storm, epidermic etc, but government-to-government aid or aid from large development institutions such as the World Bank is always a sham.

You can see this in the fact that, even after the very aggressive debt-relief campaigns in the 1990s, African countries still pay close to $30 billion in debt repayments per annum, a stark reminder(to countries like Vietnam) that aid is not free. In order to keep the system going, debt is repaid at the expense of African education,health care and future generation have to bare the burden. Well-meaning calls to cancel debt mean little when the cancellation is met with the fresh infusion of aid, and the vicious cycle starts up once again.:disagree:

When i look at Vietnam and Japans ODA relationship , it reminds me of a French speaking African country i know very very well i.e Decmocratic Republic of Congo(known formerly as Zaire). I rmeeber reading on the financial times 3 years ago that that Irwin Blumenthal (whom the IMF had appointed to a post in the country's central bank) warned in 1978 that the system was so corrupt that there was no prospect for Zaire's creditors to get their money back. Still, the IMF soon gave the country the largest loan it had ever given an African nation.:agree: The counry's former dictator Monbutu seseko alone was worth over $10billion of course through corruption. Note Congo is Africas richest country interms of resources(and one of the richest resource blessed country on earth), yet they are one of the top 10 poorest countries in the world. :tsk:
Same with another example i can give fior another african country i.e malawi .The country's former president President Bakili Muluzi in 2009 was charged with embezzling aid money worth $12 million. Zambia's former President Frederick Chiluba (a development darling of our governments lool during his 1991 to 2001 tenure) was embroiled in a court case that revealed millions of dollars frittered away from health, education and infrastructure toward his personal cash dispenser. Yet the aid keeps on coming.:cheesy: So you should ask yourself why we keep pumping aid to them, the answer should be obvious to you.

So Vietnam shouldnt fall for this(thank GOD people like Niceguy are aware of this), since a constant stream of "free" money is a perfect way to keep an inefficient or simply bad government in power. As aid flows in, there is nothing more for the government to do, as it doesn't need to raise taxes, and as long as it pays the army, it doesn't have to take account of its disgruntled citizens. No matter that its citizens are disenfranchised (as with no taxation there can be no representation). All the government really needs to do is to court and cater to its foreign donors to stay in power.:tdown:

so a truly nascent economy like Vietnam and other poor developing countries needs a transparent and accountable government and an efficient civil service to help meet social needs. Its people need jobs and a belief in their country's future. A surfeit of aid has been shown to be unable to help achieve these goals.:cheers:
 
lool yes its true indeed i must confess. Our governments in the west/U.S did the same think with Sub sharan African countries for decades now, and Africa is still a poor/corrupt country(in fact it just got more worse). The insidious aid culture has left African countries more debt-laden, more inflation-prone, more vulnerable to the vagaries of the currency markets and more unattractive to higher-quality investment. Its a game our governments have perfected for decades, while the Japanese seemed to have learned from us with time, China as well seems to be catching up on that, though theirs is a little bit different in that they offer loans and carry out the projects themselves or exchange it for purchase of raw materials, though its better its still not the best.
For me Aid is an unmitigated political, economic and humanitarian disaster.i say this because Africa is a continent i know very well and have visited several times and even lived briefly in some. So i can see for myself that things only got worse with time.
For me i can still understand Emergency aid like in case of natural disasters/tsunami/storm, epidermic etc, but government-to-government aid or aid from large development institutions such as the World Bank is always a sham.

You can see this in the fact that, even after the very aggressive debt-relief campaigns in the 1990s, African countries still pay close to $30 billion in debt repayments per annum, a stark reminder(to countries like Vietnam) that aid is not free. In order to keep the system going, debt is repaid at the expense of African education,health care and future generation have to bare the burden. Well-meaning calls to cancel debt mean little when the cancellation is met with the fresh infusion of aid, and the vicious cycle starts up once again.:disagree:

When i look at Vietnam and Japans ODA relationship , it reminds me of a French speaking African country i know very very well i.e Decmocratic Republic of Congo(known formerly as Zaire). I rmeeber reading on the financial times 3 years ago that that Irwin Blumenthal (whom the IMF had appointed to a post in the country's central bank) warned in 1978 that the system was so corrupt that there was no prospect for Zaire's creditors to get their money back. Still, the IMF soon gave the country the largest loan it had ever given an African nation.:agree: The counry's former dictator Monbutu seseko alone was worth over $10billion of course through corruption. Note Congo is Africas richest country interms of resources(and one of the richest resource blessed country on earth), yet they are one of the top 10 poorest countries in the world. :tsk:
Same with another example i can give fior another african country i.e malawi .The country's former president President Bakili Muluzi in 2009 was charged with embezzling aid money worth $12 million. Zambia's former President Frederick Chiluba (a development darling of our governments lool during his 1991 to 2001 tenure) was embroiled in a court case that revealed millions of dollars frittered away from health, education and infrastructure toward his personal cash dispenser. Yet the aid keeps on coming.:cheesy: So you should ask yourself why we keep pumping aid to them, the answer should be obvious to you.

So Vietnam shouldnt fall for this(thank GOD people like Niceguy are aware of this), since a constant stream of "free" money is a perfect way to keep an inefficient or simply bad government in power. As aid flows in, there is nothing more for the government to do, as it doesn't need to raise taxes, and as long as it pays the army, it doesn't have to take account of its disgruntled citizens. No matter that its citizens are disenfranchised (as with no taxation there can be no representation). All the government really needs to do is to court and cater to its foreign donors to stay in power.:tdown:

so a truly nascent economy like Vietnam and other poor developing countries needs a transparent and accountable government and an efficient civil service to help meet social needs. Its people need jobs and a belief in their country's future. A surfeit of aid has been shown to be unable to help achieve these goals.:cheers:
Yeah, JP-China just like US-France to Congo, they like a weak VN to exploit the poor people, but unlucky for them is that Russia wants a Strong VietNam like during Cold war to contain China , , US also want a strong VN to contain China for them ,too.

ODA may keep flowing to some stupid projects like Long Thanh air port, bad quality high way,bridge etc , but VN politics r changing, people have more right to criticize the leaders who dont work well through confident vote. So I think its time for normal JPese realise that their Govt. is play dirty trick to poor VNese by wasting their tax on corrupted Vn officials.

Here is the result of confident vote , juts released this morning. Nguyen Thi Kim Tien, Minister of Health - Pham Vu Luan, Minister of Education and Training r among the worst leaders . So, they must improve VN health and education if they dont wanna be sacked.
Results of parliamentary confidence vote on Vietnam's top leadership | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily
 
Yeah, JP-China just like US-France to Congo, they like a weak VN to exploit the poor people, but unlucky for them is that Russia wants a Strong VietNam like during Cold war to contain China , , US also want a strong VN to contain China for them ,too.

ODA may keep flowing to some stupid projects like Long Thanh air port, bad quality high way,bridge etc , but VN politics r changing, people have more right to criticize the leaders who dont work well through confident vote. So I think its time for normal JPese realise that their Govt. is play dirty trick to poor VNese by wasting their tax on corrupted Vn officials.

Here is the result of confident vote , juts released this morning. Nguyen Thi Kim Tien, Minister of Health - Pham Vu Luan, Minister of Education and Training r among the worst leaders . So, they must improve VN health and education if they dont wanna be sacked.
Results of parliamentary confidence vote on Vietnam's top leadership | Politics | Thanh Nien Daily

I agree with your comments bro. except the bold part, Russia nor the U.S wants a strong Vietnam, neither does China or Japan(as you correctly stated). All major powers will never really want you to be strong per se, as making you strong means it makes it difficult for these countries to deal with you from a position of strength or even gain more deals than they had in the past. So vietnam and other poor developing countries should stop dreaming other foreign powers wants to help them to be strong or grow or whetever, only Naive people think that way with all due respect.

As i said earlier, people in these countries have to take matters in their own hands, and bring change themselves, not hoping foreign powers will want to help them develop/grow/be strong. That couldn't be further from the truth, it has never happened before,and it will never happen in future.All countries are only looking out for themselves, and a weak but docile/expoitable Vietnam who is in conflict with its neighbours and keeps relying on imported weapons(making defence industries in the west/Russia more wealthy than they are already.:tsk:) will always be better for both the U.S and Russia. tahst how geo politics works, if theres any group/individuals who is asking for foreign powers to get involve in your country/support/give them a favour, then that group should immediately be discarded by the people, since they are not after the interest of their own country, but for foreign interests. So always rely on your own strengths and count on yourselves first and foremost and never on others(this is soemthing Africans didnt understand thinking our governemnts want ot help them developed/care about thier well being.lool now they are miserably dissapointed/poorer than before). The lesson here is:. NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING FROM OTHERS AND YOU WILL NEVER BE DISSAPOINTED.:bounce::D
 
Some Vietnamese members ( @NiceGuy )in this thread are acting ludicrous as well as asinine. Afterall the billions upon billions Japan has poured into Vietnam, the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese we've lifted out of poverty by creating thousands of jobs in the country through our businesses there -- and this is the thanks we get? Utterly audacious statements.

What we Japanese view as a comprehensive strategic relationship, some of you see as "taking advantage". I'm just flabbergasted to read such ridiculous chatter!
 
180亿美元?太奢侈了,广州白云机场总投资也才210亿人民币,设计年输送旅客超过一亿人次。
18000000000 dollars? Too extravagant, Guangzhou Baiyun Airport, a total investment of only 21000000000 Yuan, designed annual transport more than one hundred million passengers.
 
Some Vietnamese members ( @NiceGuy )in this thread are acting ludicrous as well as asinine. Afterall the billions upon billions Japan has poured into Vietnam, the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese we've lifted out of poverty by creating thousands of jobs in the country through our businesses there -- and this is the thanks we get? Utterly audacious statements.

What we Japanese view as a comprehensive strategic relationship, some of you see as "taking advantage". I'm just flabbergasted to read such ridiculous chatter!

ahahahaha.......:lol:Nihonji calm down my good friend. Drink some tea, listen to some good music, smoke some cigar(if you do that is.lol) and relax. Nobody is ganging up on Japan the saint.:D

We are all just making a point that each and every major power from the U.S, U.K, China, Germany,France, Russia,and yes your Japan included are all after their interests and not after the well being/welfare of Vietnamese civilians.lool However i said several times before on here, its normal, since any country looks first and foremost at their interests, everything else comes secondary. So Japan is not unique/special, it too falls into the same category. So im not blaming Japan, since its just doing what every power does, looking after itself and its interests, so nothing wrong in that. Its Vietnam/vietnamese who have to change their country themselves, nobody will come help them do this. They and only they themselves are the real master of their own destiny and their officials are responsible to them not foreign powers. So Japan will only deal with the government Vietnamese choosed , whether corrupt or not, its not Japans business and they couldnt care less to be honest. Japan is no saint to be 'helping/giving alms to poor Vietnam' as you stated above. No country ever 'aids' the other for free bro. That's a saying only Naive people will say with all due respect.:D Japan only does business/gives loans/aid to Vietnam knowing it gets far far more in return in the long run, so saying Japan has been aiding Vietnam with billions of dollas and asking for Vietnamese gracefulness/thanks is all but laughable to be honest. As i stated/gave some African examples above 'Aids' makes a country worse off than otherwise. So Japan is also responsible in some way(though the larger blame lies with the Vietnamese government/offcials themselves).

Anyway as i said, Its not Japans duty to elect/make Vietnams government not corrupt, its vietnamese people's duties and their institutions. So if there is anybody Vietnamese have to blame is their government first and foremost(them maybe secondly Japan and other foreign powers) who has failed them, not Japan, Japan is just dealing with them.:D Afterall, they say: Every country gets the government they deserve.:cheers:
 
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Japan can live without Vietnam, in fact, we can get more return on our investments in other countries in ASEAN, but we choose to invest and develop Vietnam because there are positives we see in this developing country. Comments by some Vietnamese members here is unproductive or conducive for Japanese-Vietnamese rapport. And it reflects poorly.

To elucidate some members on the level of investments we have in this country, Vietnam, I'll post some vital statistics data.

---------------

In the fields of development cooperation, Japan has been the largest ODA provider of Vietnam with approximately JPY2,118 billion (approx. US$24 billion), accounting for over 30 percent of total foreign aid commitments of Vietnam. In fiscal year 2011, even while facing the aftermath of the earthquake and tsunami, Japan pledged Vietnam aid worth US$2.8 billion and after that, US$2.2 billion in 2012. The Japanese ODA loans for Vietnam amount to about JPY200 billion a year.

As for direct investment, as of June 2013, Japan was the biggest investor of Vietnam with 1,990 valid projects worth a total of US$32.6 billion registered capital, allocated on localities such as Thanh Hoa, Binh Duong, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Hai Phong and Dong Nai. Over the past three years, the investment from Japan has been consistently growing. In 2012, Japan provided Vietnam the highest amount of ODA worth US$5.6 billion registered capital from 317 projects, and within the first 6 months of 2013, Japan has continued to add and raise investment to nearly US$4 billion.

Japanese ODA has been used in 18 prioritised sectors, namely processing, manufacturing, real estate, construction, retail and wholesale, information & communications, which are also the areas Vietnam has been trying to attract investment. Some Japanese projects: Project of Nghi Son Oil Refinery Co. Ltd in Thanh Hoa province invested by Japanese investors with a total registered investment capital of US$9 billion; Project of Tokyu Binh Duong Urban Township of Becamex Tokyu Co. Ltd with Tokyu Corp as investor, total registered capital of US$1.2 billion; Project of sponge iron Company Kobelco Vietnam Co. Ltd, total registered investment capital of US$1 billion. Vietnamese businesses also have 19 investment projects in Japan with a total registered capital of US$3.62 million.

In the fields of trade cooperation, Japan now is the 3rd largest trade partner of Vietnam with bilateral trade in 2012 amounted to US$24.7 billion. In which, Vietnam's exports to Japan reached US$13.1 billion, with the agricultural, forestry and fishery products accounting for about 16 percent, brought back over US$2 billion. The main export products include seafood, coffee, rubber and vegetables.

In order to attract foreign investors in general and Japanese in particular, the Vietnamese Ministry of Planning and Investment recently collaborated with experts from JICA to develop Vietnam Industrialisation Strategy. This strategy is part of the Vietnam - Japan cooperation framework, which identifies six prioritised sectors including: (i) Electricity and Electronics (ii) Food Processing (iii) Agricultural Machinery (iv) Ship-building (v) Environment Industry and Energy Saving (vi) Auto industry and Auto-part production along with supporting industries.

This prioritisation will help to fully exploit the potential and advantages of the two countries, opening a new phase in attracting foreign direct investment through developing supporting industries, helping to increase added value for the Vietnamese products.

In addition to determining the direction for future cooperation, the Vietnam authorities are coordinating with JICA and Japanese authorities to research the establishment of two intensive industrial zones in Hai Phong and Ba Ria-Vung Tau in order to support Japanese businesses wishing to invest in Vietnam.

In the upcoming time, Vietnam is committed to continuing to build a fair, transparent and conducive business environment to attract foreign investment, make good use of bilateral and multilateral cooperation to provide attractive mechanisms drawing in foreign investors, including Japanese investors.



Reference:
Japan - Vietnam’s Biggest Investor | INVESTMENT PROMOTION CENTER FOR CENTRAL VIETNAM
 
Some Vietnamese members ( @NiceGuy )in this thread are acting ludicrous as well as asinine. Afterall the billions upon billions Japan has poured into Vietnam, the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese we've lifted out of poverty by creating thousands of jobs in the country through our businesses there -- and this is the thanks we get? Utterly audacious statements.

What we Japanese view as a comprehensive strategic relationship, some of you see as "taking advantage". I'm just flabbergasted to read such ridiculous chatter!

Gratitude is an alien concept to many Vietnamese people. This is especially evident during the Vietnam war where the South Vietnamese constantly ripped off the Americans fighting on their behalf while the North Vietnamese were ingrates and completely backstabbed their Chinese allies once the war was over. With that being said, Japan can probably find better places to spend its money than Vietnam because they view you as someone asking to be swindled out of money.
 
Gratitude is an alien concept to many Vietnamese people. This is especially evident during the Vietnam war where the South Vietnamese constantly ripped off the Americans fighting on their behalf while the North Vietnamese were ingrates and completely backstabbed their Chinese allies once the war was over. With that being said, Japan can probably find better places to spend its money than Vietnam.

Its insulting to read ungracious comments by some Vietnamese, indeed. Considering Japan is the LARGEST investor in Vietnam. Definitely Japan can have greater Return on Investments say in countries like Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines or even Indonesia. Yet, Tokyo has saw the potential in Vietnam. Irregardless of the risks in Vietnam.

Very disheartening to read some of the comments.
 
Its insulting to read ungracious comments by some Vietnamese, indeed. Considering Japan is the LARGEST investor in Vietnam. Definitely Japan can have greater Return on Investments say in countries like Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines or even Indonesia. Yet, Tokyo has saw the potential in Vietnam. Irregardless of the risks in Vietnam.

Very disheartening to read some of the comments.

I seriously didn't know Japan accounted for over 30 percent of the foreign aid money coming into Vietnam. Very generous on your guys' part but...what were you guys thinking? o_O
 
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