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Vietnam president resigns after Communist Party blames him for "violations and wrongdoings"

US is corrupt in all levels, mainly in businesses, I m talking about the whole economy, not just some officials.

Please explain how the business corruption in the US is worse than in China...and how that somehow relates to your main point that Democratic types of Government are far more corrupt than Asian Socialist/Communist ones.

not just some officials.

By some you mean the ones that count the most as when thing are bad at the top..

So far having your top leaders hide their income is a big black mark in the corruption index.
 
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Please explain how the business corruption in the US is worse than in China...and how that somehow relates to your main point that Democratic types of Government are far more corrupt than Asian Socialist/Communist ones.



By some you mean the ones that count the most as when thing are bad at the top..

So far having your top leaders hide their income is a big black mark in the corruption index.
Some Vietnamese members mentioned that this thread is about Vietnam, not China and US, we should not further derail this thread, we can start a new thread about which country is more corrupted? US or China.
 
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Didn't you hear from the Chinese here?
Western Democracies are supposedly the corrupt ones vs superior Eastern Socialism/Communist ones.

There was a multipage thread on it about 3 weeks ago.
How did you miss the group circle-jerk?

3 weeks ago? i was probably vacationing.
I'm all for purging the corrupt, east or west. sometimes the corrupt also bring benefits. ie: a guy who take million dollar bribes but bring billion dollar benefits to the economy , those i can stand...for a time.
 
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3 weeks ago? i was probably vacationing.
I'm all for purging the corrupt, east or west. sometimes the corrupt also bring benefits. ie: a guy who take million dollar bribes but bring billion dollar benefits to the economy , those i can stand...for a time.
It depends on how you define corruption.

The legal definition here in Australia is misconduct in office resulted from 1 of the 3 following

1.) Bribe
2.) Personal Favor
3.) Misuse of Power

Strangely enough, corruption don't really need to directly benefit oneself to be considered a crime, because sometime people do that either to discredit or control their opponents, laying foundation of a favor. I mean say you are a councilor, you approve a DV plan even tho that is not to be passed, but you are doing that for a favor or simply just "Helping out a friend" Which eventually lead to "Corruption by association". You may not have even done anything wrong, but you are hanging with a corrupted crowd and you are in a senior governmental position, then you are "Guilty" for corruption. I mean you can ask former NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian how she was labelled "Corrupt" simply because of her association with Dayrl Mcquire even tho ICAC had not forward any criminal complaint to DPP about any Corruption charge on her.


Which bring it into my second point, what exactly is corruption anyway? Well, if we apply most law to the letter, any sort of campaigning, lobbying and policy shift are potentially corrupted. I mean corporate give you money for your political posting campaign, in the West, it's all the way up to the President, Premier and Prime Minister. Which mean the entire democratic system should be labelled corrupt. But the thing is, how about Autocrat society? How about dictatorship? At the end of the day, we can most likely be able to find one way or another, that all political system is corrupt.
 
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Please explain how the business corruption in the US is worse than in China...and how that somehow relates to your main point that Democratic types of Government are far more corrupt than Asian Socialist/Communist ones.

The worst corruption is not some official getting rich off bribes, but rather when businesses interests colluded with state power against public interests.

BTW, this smell more like a power purge than anything else.
 
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It depends on how you define corruption.

The legal definition here in Australia is misconduct in office resulted from 1 of the 3 following

1.) Bribe
2.) Personal Favor
3.) Misuse of Power

Strangely enough, corruption don't really need to directly benefit oneself to be considered a crime, because sometime people do that either to discredit or control their opponents, laying foundation of a favor. I mean say you are a councilor, you approve a DV plan even tho that is not to be passed, but you are doing that for a favor or simply just "Helping out a friend" Which eventually lead to "Corruption by association". You may not have even done anything wrong, but you are hanging with a corrupted crowd and you are in a senior governmental position, then you are "Guilty" for corruption. I mean you can ask former NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian how she was labelled "Corrupt" simply because of her association with Dayrl Mcquire even tho ICAC had not forward any criminal complaint to DPP about any Corruption charge on her.


Which bring it into my second point, what exactly is corruption anyway? Well, if we apply most law to the letter, any sort of campaigning, lobbying and policy shift are potentially corrupted. I mean corporate give you money for your political posting campaign, in the West, it's all the way up to the President, Premier and Prime Minister. Which mean the entire democratic system should be labelled corrupt. But the thing is, how about Autocrat society? How about dictatorship? At the end of the day, we can most likely be able to find one way or another, that all political system is corrupt.

yes, that i can agree with. its a gradient and not black and white.
for the record, i count gerrymandering are a type of corruption too.
 
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The worst corruption is not some official getting rich off bribes, but rather when businesses interests colluded with state power against public interests.

That is very very easy to show...and it happens all the time.

The biggest example given is when Governments allow the sale of cigarettes to the public by companies.

What Government can say with a straight face that smoking has any benefits to the public health/interest?? People can point to studies on maybe alcohol but what study says one cigarette a day is actually good for you???

There is absolutely zero benefit whatsoever other than the government receiving a HUGE steady percentage of sales money from tobacco companies (called a "sin" tax) in return for poisoning its citizens. The Government becomes just as addicted to this money than the people are to smoking. This is the absolute worst type of corruption.

Check out this 1984 video about the debate on smoking in planes
"...any more restrictions on smoking in planes would be too much of a headache for the airlines the government said" <- Can you believe this sh*t!

It took YEARS of lobbying and citizen action groups to get most states (unfortunately not all) to enact anti-smoking laws to basically kill big tobacco in the US...because it was "free" money to local governments that they were trying to stop.

x50xfhpohkgomlpsduk1jq.png

US smoking rates have plunged due to fighting tobacco companies which were corrupting the Government with free easy money.

lungcancer.png

The sad thing is even if the smoking rate were to drop to zero tomorrow people would still be dying of lung cancer over the next few decades.


1000px-CigaretteConsumptionPerCapita.svg.png

Number of cigarettes smoked per person per year

 
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That is very very easy to show...and it happens all the time.

The biggest example given is when Governments allow the sale of cigarettes to the public by companies.

What Government can say with a straight face that smoking has any benefits to the public health/interest?? People can point to studies on maybe alcohol but what study says one cigarette a day is actually good for you???

There is absolutely zero benefit whatsoever other than the government receiving a HUGE steady percentage of sales money from tobacco companies (called a "sin" tax) in return for poisoning its citizens. The Government becomes just as addicted to this money than the people are to smoking. This is the absolute worst type of corruption.

It took YEARS of lobbying and citizen action groups to basically kill big tobacco in the US...because it was "free" money to local governments that they were trying to stop.

x50xfhpohkgomlpsduk1jq.png

US smoking rates have plunged due to fighting tobacco companies which were corrupting the Government with free easy money.

View attachment 911956
The sad thing is even if the smoking rate were to drop to zero tomorrow people would still be dying of lung cancer over the next few decades.


1000px-CigaretteConsumptionPerCapita.svg.png

Number of cigarettes smoked per person per year

Because Americans prefer marijuana and drugs more than cigarettes. If you add the population using the marijuana into statistics, US color in this map will be darker than China
 
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The Vietnamese freewheeling corruption start with the Pro US Southern faction under Nguyen Tan Dung took power.

Nguyen Xuan Phuc while closely related to Nguyen Tan Dung, has Northern background. I though he can be allowed to serve his term.
 
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That is very very easy to show...and it happens all the time.

The biggest example given is when Governments allow the sale of cigarettes to the public by companies.

What Government can say with a straight face that smoking has any benefits to the public health/interest?? People can point to studies on maybe alcohol but what study says one cigarette a day is actually good for you???

There is absolutely zero benefit whatsoever other than the government receiving a HUGE steady percentage of sales money from tobacco companies (called a "sin" tax) in return for poisoning its citizens. The Government becomes just as addicted to this money than the people are to smoking. This is the absolute worst type of corruption.

Check out this 1984 video about the debate on smoking in planes
"...any more restrictions on smoking in planes would be too much of a headache for the airlines the government said" <- Can you believe this sh*t!

It took YEARS of lobbying and citizen action groups to get most states (unfortunately not all) to enact anti-smoking laws to basically kill big tobacco in the US...because it was "free" money to local governments that they were trying to stop.

x50xfhpohkgomlpsduk1jq.png

US smoking rates have plunged due to fighting tobacco companies which were corrupting the Government with free easy money.

View attachment 911956
The sad thing is even if the smoking rate were to drop to zero tomorrow people would still be dying of lung cancer over the next few decades.


1000px-CigaretteConsumptionPerCapita.svg.png

Number of cigarettes smoked per person per year


You actually picked cigarettes instead of the gun lobby?
 
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You actually picked cigarettes instead of the gun lobby?

How can the US Government do anything about guns..it's basically in the Constitution forever...and is worded in such a way any possible anti-gun law can be overturned.

Second Amendment (1791)​

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Repealing the Second Amendment – is it even possible?​


TLDR

1) It would then need to be ratified by three-fourths of the 50 states – or 38 of them.
or
2) two-thirds of state legislatures would need to call for such a convention, and states would write amendments that would then need to be ratified by three-fourths of the states.
 
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How can the US Government do anything about guns..it's basically in the Constitution forever...and is worded in such a way any possible anti-gun law can be overturned.

Second Amendment (1791)​

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


Repealing the Second Amendment – is it even possible?​


TLDR

1) It would then need to be ratified by three-fourths of the 50 states – or 38 of them.
or
2) two-thirds of state legislatures would need to call for such a convention, and states would write amendments that would then need to be ratified by three-fourths of the states.

Oh please. What about the 4th amendment? Remember Patriot Act? The constitution is never an obstacle when there is no business interest in the way. The very existence of lobbying is exactly a collusion of business interest with state power against the public interest.
 
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Oh please. What about the 4th amendment? Remember Patriot Act? The constitution is never an obstacle when there is no business interest in the way. The very existence of lobbying is exactly a collusion of business interest with state power against the public interest.

As I have said before they can pass laws that says everybody has to walk backwards on the streets...but that doesn't mean the law won't be thrown out by the courts after being challenged.

 
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