Vietnam Metro Transportation

[hoangsa74]

Can't agree with you.

Metro in non-US cities is comfortable, punctual, frequent, in most cases.....
I think you have lived in US for too long.
And have you heard every subway station is also a commercial complex attracting investment?

I've been to both Hanoi and Saigon, if the metro construction cannot keep in pace with the growing number of cars and expansion of suburbs, the situation will be only getting worse.....No matter how many boulevards or suburban expressways to be built.

View attachment 362010 View attachment 362014 View attachment 362011

View attachment 362019

But you have to walk to a metro station. Unless you are lucky enough to live next to a station, you're more than likely having to walk more than 20 minutes to a station, wait for 10 minutes, and take your train for another 20 minutes to your get off station, then likely having to walk another 20 minutes to your final destination. Total time from your home to your destination is 70 minutes. Plus, walking under the heat of S.E. Asia for 5 minutes will exhaust you to death already. Saigon is 10 miles by 10 miles so if you take your motorbike and leave your home, you're more than likely to get to the other end of the city in 30 minutes at the most.

The first metro line in Saigon costs about 2.5 billion. That's is equivalent of building 5 boulevards and each is 10 miles long and 150 feet wide. How many motorbikes do you think you can pack in those 5 blvd? A lot. and we know most viets go around in motorbikes.

 

[Viet]

But you have to walk to a metro station. Unless you are lucky enough to live next to a station, you're more than likely having to walk more than 20 minutes to a station, wait for 10 minutes, and take your train for another 20 minutes to your get off station, then likely having to walk another 20 minutes to your final destination. Total time from your home to your destination is 70 minutes. Plus, walking under the heat of S.E. Asia for 5 minutes will exhaust you to death already. Saigon is 10 miles by 10 miles so if you take your motorbike and leave your home, you're more than likely to get to the other end of the city in 30 minutes at the most.

The first metro line in Saigon costs about 2.5 billion. That's is equivalent of building 5 boulevards and each is 10 miles long and 150 feet wide. How many motorbikes do you think you can pack in those 5 blvd? A lot. and we know most viets go around in motorbikes.

you are a funny guy. and biased. following your opinion our people should continue riding on bikes forever. luckily we are not stupid. you should wait until the subways are complete and compare what is more convenient. bike or subway. Hanoi plans 5 subways, while Saigon 8. all cost billions in double digit numbers.

 

[GS Zhou]

you are a funny guy. and biased. following your opinion our people should continue riding on bikes forever. luckily we are not stupid. you should wait until the subways are complete and compare what is more convenient. bike or subway. Hanoi plans 5 subways, while Saigon 8. all cost billions in double digit numbers.

building a metro line is definitely a very wise idea to any crowed city. But be prepared that metro system is unfortunately a greedy monster that needs to be fed with tons of money. The building itself is already very expensive, but the daily operation after the building completion could be even more expensive.

Take my hometown Shanghai as the example. The Shanghai Metro Line-1 is the oldest line (20 years old), and also the busiest line (daily traffic about 1 million passengers). Line-1's 2015 ticket revenue is about 700 million RMB, which is even not enough to cover its operation cost (operation, maintenance, overhaul, loan interests and depreciation). But remember this is a 20-year old line, therefore very limited expenses on loan interest and depreciation. If it is a new line, it will be a huge financial burden to government.

 

[Viet]

building a metro line is definitely a very wise idea to any crowed city. But be prepared that metro system is unfortunately a greedy monster that needs to be fed with tons of money. The building itself is already very expensive, but the daily operation after the building completion could be even more expensive.

Take my hometown Shanghai as the example. The Shanghai Metro Line-1 is the oldest line (20 years old), and also the busiest line (daily traffic about 1 million passengers). Line-1's 2015 ticket revenue is about 700 million RMB, which is even not enough to cover its operation cost (operation, maintenance, overhaul, loan interests and depreciation). But remember this is a 20-year old line, therefore very limited expenses on loan interest and depreciation. If it is a new line, it will be a huge financial burden to government.

Public transportation like subway or bus is a public service and usually doesn't generate profits. The government must subsidize it, making it affordable to everyone. Like everywhere. Here in Germany it is not different. I use subway every day to my office, letting my car in garage. As for cost of building and running subways, yes I think Vietnam is aware of great financial burden, but that's still ok. Unless tensions rise and we are forced to pour money purchasing weapons

 

[TaiShang]

Public transportation like subway or bus is a public service and usually doesn't generate profits. The government must subsidize it, making it affordable to everyone. Like everywhere. Here in Germany it is not different. I use subway every day to my office, letting my car in garage. As for cost of building and running subways, yes I think Vietnam is aware of great financial burden, but that's still ok. Unless tensions rise and we are forced to pour money purchasing weapons

Well said. Public investment (infra, education, health, sanitation etc), although may be perceived as loss making, brings about lots of positive externalities. If not generate revenue directly, it helps revenue to be generated by lifting lifestyles, ensuring security, punctuation, hygiene and other benefits.

After all, public policy cannot be entirely for profit even though public offices have to be prudent and seek cost-saving measures since they use people's money.

 

[AndrewJin]

But you have to walk to a metro station. Unless you are lucky enough to live next to a station, you're more than likely having to walk more than 20 minutes to a station, wait for 10 minutes, and take your train for another 20 minutes to your get off station, then likely having to walk another 20 minutes to your final destination. Total time from your home to your destination is 70 minutes. Plus, walking under the heat of S.E. Asia for 5 minutes will exhaust you to death already. Saigon is 10 miles by 10 miles so if you take your motorbike and leave your home, you're more than likely to get to the other end of the city in 30 minutes at the most.

The first metro line in Saigon costs about 2.5 billion. That's is equivalent of building 5 boulevards and each is 10 miles long and 150 feet wide. How many motorbikes do you think you can pack in those 5 blvd? A lot. and we know most viets go around in motorbikes.

Stick to motorbikes then, such primitive methods are banned in most Chinese major cities.

 

[AViet]

I am not pro-HSR in Vietnam.
Vietnam has poor railway system, what we need is self construction of improved traditional railway to reach China level of traditional railway, average speed 120-150km

Instead of HSR, the combination of air passenger and motorway are ok.

HCMC assigned Japan as contractor for all metro projects. Only 1 of 8 lines in Hanoi won by China company

I believe the only reason Vietnam has to use Japanese, French or whatever contractors is because they are the sponsors of the projects.

Cost-effective wise, no one can beat China. In addition, their railways tech is already top of the world.

 

[hoangsa74]

you are a funny guy. and biased. following your opinion our people should continue riding on bikes forever. ..

since most viet can't afford a car we can only talk about the choice of motorbike or subway. As i have mentioned it takes on average 70 minutes on a subway from one end of the city to the other end and it includes walking at least 40 minutes in the heat of se asia. Motorbike only takes u 30 minutes for the same route. You want to talk about convience of taking a subway? That's a laughing matter when u put subway n convience in the same sentence when u spend on average 40 minutes walking in the course of taking a subway; thats even worse than spending 30 minutes on a motorbike. All of u keep touting subway is a better deal when none i mean none is able to explain why should the viet be spending 70 minutes including at least 40 freakjng minutes walking just to commute by subway instead of taking motorbike for just 30 minutes.

 

[Shotgunner51]

building a metro line is definitely a very wise idea to any crowed city. But be prepared that metro system is unfortunately a greedy monster that needs to be fed with tons of money. The building itself is already very expensive, but the daily operation after the building completion could be even more expensive.

Take my hometown Shanghai as the example. The Shanghai Metro Line-1 is the oldest line (20 years old), and also the busiest line (daily traffic about 1 million passengers). Line-1's 2015 ticket revenue is about 700 million RMB, which is even not enough to cover its operation cost (operation, maintenance, overhaul, loan interests and depreciation). But remember this is a 20-year old line, therefore very limited expenses on loan interest and depreciation. If it is a new line, it will be a huge financial burden to government.

Yes metro, if financially mismanaged, could end up as burden for taxpayers.

Answer? Integrated Rail-Property Development Model. Hong Kong is the pioneer and most successful case in the world, by now MTR have extended their operations to Bangkok, Melbourne, Shenzhen, Beijing.

For example between the two metro operators in Beijing, the older lines (www.bjsubway.com) use traditional government-subsidy model (no commercial complex), while the newer MTR lines (www.mtr.bj.cn) adopts IRP, difference in financial results between two models are very obvious. Singapore is also very advanced in this field, our city Shanghai is fast adopting this as well.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237212142_Integrated_Rail-Property_Development_Model
http://www.reconnectingamerica.org/assets/Uploads/mtrstudyrpmodel2004.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191261512000057
http://www.bre.polyu.edu.hk/rccree/...st_Eco/Integrated_Rail_Property_dev_Model.pdf

 

[shadows888]

since most viet can't afford a car we can only talk about the choice of motorbike or subway. As i have mentioned it takes on average 70 minutes on a subway from one end of the city to the other end and it includes walking at least 40 minutes in the heat of se asia. Motorbike only takes u 30 minutes for the same route. You want to talk about convience of taking a subway? That's a laughing matter when u put subway n convience in the same sentence when u spend on average 40 minutes walking in the course of taking a subway; thats even worse than spending 30 minutes on a motorbike. All of u keep touting subway is a better deal when none i mean none is able to explain why should the viet be spending 70 minutes including at least 40 freakjng minutes walking just to commute by subway instead of taking motorbike for just 30 minutes.

I can tell you have never lived in a large city with adequate public transportation before. Let me know when you have to pay $24 for 1 hr of parking everytime you want to do something. 80% of people in NYC don't even own a car, they survive just fine and not cause they can't afford it. They are not going from one end of the city to other, maybe only half way at most. Subway stations are spaced closed enough for short walks.

 

[BoQ77]

since most viet can't afford a car we can only talk about the choice of motorbike or subway. As i have mentioned it takes on average 70 minutes on a subway from one end of the city to the other end and it includes walking at least 40 minutes in the heat of se asia. Motorbike only takes u 30 minutes for the same route. You want to talk about convience of taking a subway? That's a laughing matter when u put subway n convience in the same sentence when u spend on average 40 minutes walking in the course of taking a subway; thats even worse than spending 30 minutes on a motorbike. All of u keep touting subway is a better deal when none i mean none is able to explain why should the viet be spending 70 minutes including at least 40 freakjng minutes walking just to commute by subway instead of taking motorbike for just 30 minutes.

thanks for your information, pal.
70mins for one end to the other end is the exaggerated figure, it should be 30-40mins.
yes walking and climbing ( not escalator ) about 20 mins in the heat of SEA

Yes Motorbike takes 30-40 minutes with condition there's no traffic. During traffic jam, it takes 30 mins just for less than 1 kilometer.

And time for parking lot, and walking from there to the work place.

 

[GS Zhou]

Public transportation like subway or bus is a public service and usually doesn't generate profits. The government must subsidize it, making it affordable to everyone. Like everywhere. Here in Germany it is not different. I use subway every day to my office, letting my car in garage. As for cost of building and running subways, yes I think Vietnam is aware of great financial burden, but that's still ok. Unless tensions rise and we are forced to pour money purchasing weapons

I fully agree with your point that public transportation service is not set to make profits. But even though, they should at least manage to achieve a certain level of self-sustain. I.e. the ticket revenue should be able to cover (at least a large portion of) the daily operation cost, maintenance & overhaul cost, and bank loan (incl. interests) payments. But even such a simple task is not easy for metro systems in many cities.

Take Beijing metro as the example, it used to have very low fare rate, RMB 2 per trip (FYI: the current exchange rate is 1Euro = 7.3 RMB), no matter how many stops the passenger takes. But this proves to be unsustainable, and in 2014, government raised the fare rate to 3~5 RMB per trip, depending on trip length.

So I'm very curious to know how Vietnam will make the balance between affordable fare rate vs. self-sustain. Do make us an update once you know more details. Thanks in advance.

 

[Viet]

I fully agree with your point that public transportation service is not set to make profits. But even though, they should at least manage to achieve a certain level of self-sustain. I.e. the ticket revenue should be able to cover (at least a large portion of) the daily operation cost, maintenance & overhaul cost, and bank loan (incl. interests) payments. But even such a simple task is not easy for metro systems in many cities.

Take Beijing metro as the example, it used to have very low fare rate, RMB 2 per trip (FYI: the current exchange rate is 1Euro = 7.3 RMB), no matter how many stops the passenger takes. But this proves to be unsustainable, and in 2014, government raised the fare rate to 3~5 RMB per trip, depending on trip length.

So I'm very curious to know how Vietnam will make the balance between affordable fare rate vs. self-sustain. Do make us an update once you know more details. Thanks in advance.

that is very cheap if you pay only a fraction of euro for a trip. here you pay some 2-3 euro per ride.

the metros in Hanoi and Saigon still have to go several years before getting completed. no news about how much per ride. but I think that will be very cheap as the cities authorities want lure 60pct of people to public transport by 2030. now only some 9pct. there are plans bikes will be banned in inner cities, cars with high fee when they want to enter the cities. actually metro is something for rich countries, not for VN, that is just escaping war and devastation. poverty still remains in parts of the country. no wonder VN faces massive problems in building metro, from lack of money to lack of expertise. anyway things go slow forwards. some images Hanoi metro under construction.

 

[Viet]

Building Saigon metro

 

[Viet]

Saigon Metro. new drilling engine for the tubes.

overground subway. half done.