Vietnam Defence Forum

[Farhan Bohra]

Uh.........actually im still around though. Just not really like the tone of some people claim the need to "wipe out" the entire goverment and cause political instability just to fix the ongoing problem including corruption so i just browns for news and stuffs. I have NO need for an apologize or anything resemble it so please dont put words into my mouth, its very disgusting and retard...............Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works.


There are admirable success and of course catastrophic failures as well. With the current level of Vietnam citizen cultural standard, its will be just another south vietnam with endless coups and election frauds if democracy to be implanted. Feel free to believe that citizen of a country that cant even throw trash into the can that are 5 steps away can make wonderful and miracle advances by democracy. Your call, i have no arguments otherwise.

Due to several job training requirement, i have little time for anything else. But you do realize that #ATSM and #JK stand for at the end of the post right ?

You think there was no political instability in Vietnam, after defeating Saigon? Are you serious? Maybe you are giving preferential treatment to partial history and ignoring other half.

Why after Vietnam War, CPV changed name of Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City?
Isnt the Saigon is right name for that city and historically correct ??

Saigon

An etymology of Saigon (or Sài Gòn in Vietnamese) is that Sài is a Sino-Vietnamese word (Hán tự:柴) meaning "firewood, lops, twigs; palisade", while Gòn is another Sino-Vietnamese word (Hán tự:棍) meaning "stick, pole, bole", and whose meaning evolved into "cotton" in Vietnamese (bông gòn, literally "cotton stick", i.e., "cotton plant", then shortened to gòn). This name may refer to the many kapok plants that the Khmer people had planted around Prey Nokor, and which can still be seen at Cây Mai temple and surrounding areas. It may also refer to the dense and tall forest that once existed around the city, a forest to which the Khmer name, Prey Nokor, already referred.[11]

Other proposed etymologies draw parallels from Tai-Ngon (堤 岸), the Cantonese name of Cholon, which means "embankment" (French:quais),[nb 3] and Vietnamese Sai Côn, a translation of the Khmer Prey Nokor (Khmer: ព្រៃនគរ). Prey means forest or jungle, and nokor is a Khmer word of Sanskrit origin meaning city or kingdom, and related to the English word 'Nation' — thus, "forest city" or "forest kingdom".[nb 4]

Truong Mealy (former director of King Norodom Sihanouk's royal Cabinet), says that, according to a Khmer Chronicle, The Collection of the Council of the Kingdom, Prey Nokor's proper name was Preah Reach Nokor (Khmer: ព្រោះរាជនគរ), "Royal City"; later locally corrupted to "Prey kor", meaning "kapok forest", from which "Saigon" was derived ("kor" meaning "kapok" in Khmer and Cham, going into Vietnamese as "gòn" ).[12]

Or changing the name of Saigon was actually political to show citizens of South that North won, and you lost?

Why after War CPV done purges for more than decades? Why? The Vietnam was perfectly stable, why required purges? Why established reeducation centers?
No answer?

And as I am not citizen of Vietnam, I have no right to comment on it. But if your argument is political instability, and thats why one party rule is alright. Thats BS.

 

[vtnsx]

The type of pride that these people have is called "false pride".

The definition of false pride: False pride is presenting yourself to others (and yourself) as something you are not - a man without flaws. In this particular case, a country without flaws. False pride has to do with claiming that you are more than you believe you are, and that you know more than you believe you know. This kind of pride almost always requires outside confirmation or approval to cover up an inner feeling of inadequacy.

True pride has to do with acknowledging and respecting who you are and what you can do, without any outside confirmation or approval. In this particular case, acknowledging the negative elements of your country.

Actually, I like PM Phuc a lot. I think he truly cares and wants to fix things, but he has an uphill struggle. Best of luck to him.

Yes, I think most investors want to see is less government involvement into doing businesses and focus more on laws, regulations and stability for businesses and politics.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Uh.........actually im still around though. Just not really like the tone of some people claim the need to "wipe out" the entire goverment and cause political instability just to fix the ongoing problem including corruption so i just browns for news and stuffs. I have NO need for an apologize or anything resemble it so please dont put words into my mouth, its very disgusting and retard...............Still, for someone to say that i just a troll, maybe someone need to go and take few looks around the world and see how "democracy" works.

There are admirable success and of course catastrophic failures as well. With the current level of Vietnam citizen cultural standard, its will be just another south vietnam with endless coups and election frauds if democracy to be implanted. Feel free to believe that citizen of a country that cant even throw trash into the can that are 5 steps away can make wonderful and miracle advances by democracy. Your call, i have no arguments otherwise.

Due to several job training requirement, i have little time for anything else. But you do realize that #ATSM and #JK stand for at the end of the post right ?

I am very straight forward guy. I want to ask a simple question.

Stalingrad now known as Volgograd, Leningrad now know as Saint Petersburg. When Vietnam changing the name of city Ho Chi Minh?

When they renaming this to original name and to historically correct name?

From when they stop portraying a human being Ho Chi Minh as larger than life, and putting above Vietnam? One should remember there is nothing above Vietnam, not even CPV.

 

[vtnsx]

You think there was no political instability in Vietnam, after defeating Saigon? Are you serious? Maybe you are giving preferential treatment to partial history and ignoring other half.

Why after Vietnam War, CPV changed name of Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City?
Isnt the Saigon is right name for that city and historically correct ??



Or changing the name of Saigon was actually political to show citizens of South that North won, and you lost?

Why after War CPV done purges for more than decades? Why? The Vietnam was perfectly stable, why required purges? Why established reeducation centers?
No answer?

And as I am not citizen of Vietnam, I have no right to comment on it. But if your argument is political instability, and thats why one party rule is alright. Thats BS.

In business, one party rule, we call that "monopoly"
In politics, we call it "communist and dictatorship"

Both breed corruption.

I am very straight forward guy. I want to ask a simple question.

Stalingrad now known as Volgograd, Leningrad now know as Saint Petersburg. When Vietnam changing the name of city Ho Chi Minh?

When they renaming this to original name and to historically correct name?

From when they stop portraying a human being Ho Chi Minh as larger than life, and putting above Vietnam? One should remember there is nothing above Vietnam, not even CPV.

The problem with North Vietnamese thinker is that they don't believe in a fair fight.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Nobody is forcing them to come to PDF if they don't like the subject.

Ignoring the problems doesnt always solve problems, one should accept that, and then find solutions for it.
But personally I dont like people loving a party or a person more than their country. I dont know but it boils my blood, how one person can love a party above her country?

The problem is after Vietnam War, there was a huge polarity in mindset of citizens of South & North. And instead of making cure of it, CPV enlarged it. And showed South like North is conqueror, instead of showing that all are citizens of Vietnam, no matter what where they are from.
To remove this polarity of mindset, CPV done purges and established reeducation programs. In my sense, that was worst for Vietnam.

In my thinking, the CPV should be dissolved right after the war, and should negotiate a political structure that include all. Not just leaders that are with CPV tags, but from other parties too, and calling the elections right away. CPV done there job, they won the war, CPV never was a political party, all were military guys. That was the only solution to remove the polarity of mindsets.

Just check this, why on Planet Earth a Minister of Defence wearing military uniform, isnt he should be a political guy and in civilian cloths.

An Armed Forces should be best fit & best trained, not best thinker. And policy making like Defence Minister should be a best thinker.

 

[vtnsx]

Ignoring the problems doesnt always solve problems, one should accept that, and then find solutions for it.
But personally I dont like people loving a party or a person more than their country. I dont know but it boils my blood, how one person can love a party above her country?

The problem is after Vietnam War, there was a huge polarity in mindset of citizens of South & North. And instead of making cure of it, CPV enlarged it. And showed South like North is conqueror, instead of showing that all are citizens of Vietnam, no matter what where they are from.
To remove this polarity of mindset, CPV done purges and established reeducation programs. In my sense, that was worst for Vietnam.

In my thinking, the CPV should be dissolved right after the war, and should negotiate a political structure that include all. Not just leaders that are with CPV tags, but from other parties too, and calling the elections right away. CPV done there job, they won the war, CPV never was a political party, all were military guys. That was the only solution to remove the polarity of mindsets.

Just check this, why on Planet Earth a Minister of Defence wearing military uniform, isnt he should be a political guy and in civilian cloths.

An Armed Forces should be best fit & best trained, not best thinker. And policy making like Defence Minister should be a best thinker.

Because they view all the South Viet as traitors and want to make their lives harder which is part of their revenge for the hardship that they have endured for not following the footsteps to Democracy.

Now, after they have won the war, playing with China and got ditched, they are coming to America asking for help and forgiveness. This to me they were wrong about Democracy. Vietnam's future is in the hands of the younger generation. The South knows never to trust the Chinese. Long story short, they have different mindset, North and South.

These military guys don't know how to dress when meeting presidents of countries. They are more of a dictator than anything. There are a few people who understand the dress code such as Nguyen Tan Dung.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Because they view all the South Viet as traitors and want to make their lives harder which is part of their revenge for the hardship that they have endured for not following the footsteps to Democracy.

Now, after they have won the war, playing with China and got ditched, they are coming to America asking for help and forgiveness. This to me they were wrong about Democracy. Vietnam's future is in the hands of the younger generation. The South knows never to trust the Chinese. Long story short, they have different mindset, North and South.

These military guys don't know how to dress when meeting presidents of countries. They are more of a dictator than anything. There are a few people who understand the dress code such as Nguyen Tan Dung.

Can you provide what oath Vietnam Armed Force's officers take after passing out from Academy? Or which oath PM & President take?

I am unable to find anything over internet.

 

[Viet]

Can you provide what oath Vietnam Armed Force's officers take after passing out from Academy? Or which oath PM & President take?

I am unable to find anything over internet.

Tran Dai Quang, the new state president of Vietnam. also he is de jure the Supreme Commander of Vietnam Armed Forces.

the oath before the Parliament:

“I swear to resolutely and persistently fight to protect Vietnam’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity, as well as its national interests and security”.

 

[Carlosa]

Can you provide what oath Vietnam Armed Force's officers take after passing out from Academy? Or which oath PM & President take?

I am unable to find anything over internet.

If I remember correctly, when the constitution was changed last year, they changed the oath from the country to the party. Same as in China.

Ignoring the problems doesnt always solve problems, one should accept that, and then find solutions for it.
But personally I dont like people loving a party or a person more than their country. I dont know but it boils my blood, how one person can love a party above her country?

The problem is after Vietnam War, there was a huge polarity in mindset of citizens of South & North. And instead of making cure of it, CPV enlarged it. And showed South like North is conqueror, instead of showing that all are citizens of Vietnam, no matter what where they are from.
To remove this polarity of mindset, CPV done purges and established reeducation programs. In my sense, that was worst for Vietnam.

In my thinking, the CPV should be dissolved right after the war, and should negotiate a political structure that include all. Not just leaders that are with CPV tags, but from other parties too, and calling the elections right away. CPV done there job, they won the war, CPV never was a political party, all were military guys. That was the only solution to remove the polarity of mindsets.

Just check this, why on Planet Earth a Minister of Defence wearing military uniform, isnt he should be a political guy and in civilian cloths.

An Armed Forces should be best fit & best trained, not best thinker. And policy making like Defence Minister should be a best thinker.

They placed the party first because the party "provides" if you get my drift.

 

[Viet]

If I remember correctly, when the constitution was changed last year, they changed the oath from the country to the party. Same as in China.



They placed the party first because the party "provides" if you get my drift.

the oath demands the top leader to protect the Nation, the People and the Constitution. Nation comes first.

but here is the thing: the Party is assigned the leadership in the Constitution. so for example, the Chairwoman of Vietnam’s National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan says after the oath: “I vow to fulfill all missions assigned by the Party, state and people”. Party comes first.

I don´t think there was a change in the Constitution.

 

[Carlosa]

the oath demands the top leader to protect the Nation, the People and the Constitution. Nation comes first.

but here is the thing: the Party is assigned the leadership in the Constitution. so for example, the Chairwoman of Vietnam’s National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan says after the oath: “I vow to fulfill all missions assigned by the Party, state and people”. Party comes first.

I don´t think there was a change in the Constitution.

I remember reading that it was going to be changed in the update of the constitution, I think it was last year, but I'll have to dig out some articles.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

If I remember correctly, when the constitution was changed last year, they changed the oath from the country to the party. Same as in China.



They placed the party first because the party "provides" if you get my drift.

Leave China, there oath is whole propaganda of CCP and nothing else. And swear to protect the party.

the oath demands the top leader to protect the Nation, the People and the Constitution. Nation comes first.

but here is the thing: the Party is assigned the leadership in the Constitution. so for example, the Chairwoman of Vietnam’s National Assembly Nguyen Thi Kim Ngan says after the oath: “I vow to fulfill all missions assigned by the Party, state and people”. Party comes first.

I don´t think there was a change in the Constitution.

The topmost priority for any leader and Armed Forces should be protecting constitution, and sovereignty derived from Constitution.

Like Oath of US Armed Forces is

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Oath of Indian Armed Forces

I ( name) hereby solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of India, as by law established and that I will, as in duty bound honestly and faithfully, serve in the regular Army of the Union of India and go where ever ordered, by land, sea or air, and that I will observe and obey all the commands of the President of the Union of India and the commands of any officer set above me, even to the peril of my life.

 

[William Hung]

I guess a lot of people support or are involved in the government corruption then. Too bad the truth hurts. Apologies are given when someone is wrong. Feel free to show me that I was wrong.

Can continue tomorrow, have a plane to catch........

I thought you said you are mature and so could understand people well. I am amused that you couldn’t see what I have just done...I have actually done you a favor by making him speak up and post again. You cannot remember how I have once previously made the said member to “speak” about certain things, without him even realizing it? Even if he was disgrunted about what had been said here and dont want to post anymore, he would still be compelled to speak up after reading what I had said to you.

But dont expect too much...the disgrunt is still there, so he was only speaking up to clarify himself, I think he is still too disgrunted to respond to you about that comcom post on Aster/Mica order.

Now...wait and see.

BTW, the more interesting stuff to talk about is the difference between Russian/western system, its FCS, coummunications, the possibility of interfacing them etc. But you guys went and talk about something else, oh well.

William Hung, I guess I was wrong about you too.

Yes, indeed you were wrong about me. You thought I was some kind of naive malleable kid who could easily be influenced and brain washed, didn’t you? Hence, why you insists on lecturing me about how bad VN govt is, etc.

I am a leftist socialist, an independent thinker. And no, I don’t think VN is a genuine socialist country and neither is the VCP a genuine communist party. I hate the pro-VCP apologists who gives nonsense argument just to defend the party. But let me tell you, I also hate as much the anti-VCP camp, especially the oversea ones like the Viet Tan, who talks as much nonsense as the pro-VCP apologists. Nonsense that they commonly say are things like , “the VCP is controlled by the CCP”, etc. Things that even western analysts will disagree with. Nonsense like that coming from nonsense group like Viet Tan does more harm than good. Real Viets who want to work for change can get associated with their nonsense and lose credential.

If you genuinely want Vietnam to progress, then by all means you have the right to criticize or discuss issues wrt VN. But do it with proper data and intelligence, don’t just scream out slogans like “VN govt is destroying the country”, “VCP dont know how to rule” or outright lies like “VCP is controlled by CCP”. I have previously opened many topics on issues related to VN, and even asked non-VNmese for comments and knowledge. I have learnt more from that than the slogans screamed out by VT and the likes.

You think there was no political instability in Vietnam, after defeating Saigon? Are you serious? Maybe you are giving preferential treatment to partial history and ignoring other half.

Why after Vietnam War, CPV changed name of Saigon to Ho Chi Minh City?
Isnt the Saigon is right name for that city and historically correct ??



Or changing the name of Saigon was actually political to show citizens of South that North won, and you lost?

Why after War CPV done purges for more than decades? Why? The Vietnam was perfectly stable, why required purges? Why established reeducation centers?
No answer?

And as I am not citizen of Vietnam, I have no right to comment on it. But if your argument is political instability, and thats why one party rule is alright. Thats BS.

The “political stability” argument is just an excuse to justify a ruling regime. The flaw with this argument is that it can only be a valid justification if “political stability” is interpreted as an end in itself, rather than a means to an end. But, a country’s progress, flourishing, etc. should be the ends. “Political stability” is a means to an end, a condition to make the said ends possible.

So even if a regime can provide “political stability”, it is meaningless if it cannot provide progress and flourishment to the country...or worse...impinge on that progress by spreading corruption, etc. The North Korean regime provides political stability, but it is meaningless because it does not help the country to progress and flourish. In other words, it can only achieve one of the “means to an ends”, but impinge on the ends itself. So therein lies the flaw of the “political stability” argument to justify a regime: the argument can only work if “political stability” is an end in itself, the final goal of a country. But it is not, it is only a means to an ends. Progress and flourishing of a country should be the ends, they are the final goals of a country. So if a regime can provide “political stability” but impinge on progress and flourishing, then “political stability” in this case cannot be used as a justification for that regime.

 

[Carlosa]

Vietnam says China 'sank' fishing boat in disputed sea

July 12, 2016 12:59 pm

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bre...sank-fishing-boat-in-disputed-s-30290369.html

HANOI - Vietnam has accused the Chinese coastguard of sinking a fishing boat near a disputed island chain, authorities said Tuesday, ahead of key UN-backed ruling on claims in the flashpoint South China Sea.
Two Vietnamese boats were chased by a pair of Chinese coastguard ships on Saturday afternoon off Vietnam’s Quang Ngai province, the Vietnam Fisheries Society (Vinafis) said in a statement.

One ship was boarded by Chinese coastguards who forced the crew overboard, Vinafis said, while a second vessel was prevented from reaching the stranded fishermen.

"Chinese men jumped onto fisherman Vo Van Luu’s boat, struck the Vietnamese sailors and... sunk the vessel," forcing five crew members overboard, the statement said.

The five fishermen remained in the sea until dark, when the second Vietnamese vessel was able to approach the area.


Vinafis "condemned" the incident and demanded compensation from China.

There was no immediate comment from China on the allegations.

Beijing lays claim to virtually all of the South China Sea, putting it at odds with regional neighbours the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, which also have partial claims.

Later Tuesday the UN-backed Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) in The Hague is set to rule on the legality of China’s claims to an area of the sea contested by the Philippines.

It is a much anticipated court ruling with analysts saying a verdict that goes against Beijing could see a spike in aggressive actions in the area.

Vietnam and China frequently trade diplomatic barbs over the disputed Paracel island chain and waters in the South China Sea.

China is encouraging patriotic tourists to visit the contested Paracels, which are known as Xisha in Chinese.

Such acts have deepened already simmering anti-Chinese sentiment in Vietnam.

At least three Chinese people were killed in 2014 when rioting broke out in Vietnam after Beijing sent an oil rig into contested waters.

- AFP

 

[vtnsx]

Leave China, there oath is whole propaganda of CCP and nothing else. And swear to protect the party.




The topmost priority for any leader and Armed Forces should be protecting constitution, and sovereignty derived from Constitution.

Like Oath of US Armed Forces is



Oath of Indian Armed Forces

Vietnam is still working on that.

"
Even as we cooperate more closely in the areas I’ve described, our partnership includes a third element -- addressing areas where our governments disagree, including on human rights. I say this not to single out Vietnam. No nation is perfect. Two centuries on, the United States is still striving to live up to our founding ideals. We still deal with our shortcomings -- too much money in our politics, and rising economic inequality, racial bias in our criminal justice system, women still not being paid as much as men doing the same job. We still have problems. And we're not immune from criticism, I promise you. I hear it every day. But that scrutiny, that open debate, confronting our imperfections, and allowing everybody to have their say has helped us grow stronger and more prosperous and more just.

I’ve said this before -- the United States does not seek to impose our form of government on Vietnam. The rights I speak of I believe are not American values; I think they're universal values written into the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. They're written into the Vietnamese constitution, which states that “citizens have the right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press, and have the right of access to information, the right to assembly, the right to association, and the right to demonstrate.” That’s in the Vietnamese constitution. (Applause.) So really, this is an issue about all of us, each country, trying to consistently apply these principles, making sure that we -- those of us in government -- are being true to these ideals.

In recent years, Vietnam has made some progress. Vietnam has committed to bringing its laws in line with its new constitution and with international norms. Under recently passed laws, the government will disclose more of its budget and the public will have the right to access more information. And, as I said, Vietnam has committed to economic and labor reforms under the TPP. So these are all positive steps. And ultimately, the future of Vietnam will be decided by the people of Vietnam. Every country will chart its own path, and our two nations have different traditions and different political systems and different cultures. But as a friend of Vietnam, allow me to share my view -- why I believe nations are more successful when universal rights are upheld."

Read more here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-pres...emarks-president-obama-address-people-vietnam

Vietnam's constitution: http://www.constitutionnet.org/files/tranlation_of_vietnams_new_constitution_enuk_2.pdf