Vietnam Defence Forum

[visom]

No way.Plz know why they want those warships

Always talking about boats aren't you, Boat Boy?

 

[cnleio]

With some few exceptions, the current laws of Japan forbid exporting weapons to overseas. Even the scope of Japanese army is very limitted, strickly in terms of budgets and defence.

If Mr Abe wins the upcoming upper house election, taking place on next Sunday, he is expected to change the post war constitutions. That would allow him more freedoms on foreign policy, including selling warships to Vietnam. I know Japan builds some good subs and destroyers, so I wish Mr Abe good luck as he is a friend of Vietnam.

Also wish Mr Abe would change the post war constitutions, then Chinese, Korean, Russian will stay together as alliances to face region threat from Japan islands. At least in North-East Asia nobody has good feelings with Japan forces.

 

[cnleio]

Hmm, if we come to Russian, the price will be easier for our Budget.

If Russian could cost down, why Vietnam bought 6x kilo(type636) still need 2.1billion U.S dollar(other news said 3.2billion)? In the past, 2005 China just spent 1.8billion bought 8x kilo(type636) submarines from Russia. (before 2005 China owned 2x type636 and 2x type877 kilo submarines).

And I saw in some source, FREMM, De Zeven Provinciën-class frigate or F-124 class has price from 600 to 800 millions $ (lower cost when compare to USA and China ships cost). So, there is still has good stuff for us.

Prepare another 100 million $ to purchase additional anti-aircraft missiles and advanced anti-ship missiles for warships, if u wanna using Russian missiles also need money to update electronic control system, fire control system and radar system.

China 054A class 4,000ton high-performance frigate just cost 200million $.
Vietnam imported Russian Gepard-3.9(type11611E) light frigate cost 150million $, a 2,100ton warship without any anti-aircraft missiles. (Better to choose Tiger(type20380) frigate, Indonesia
Navy will import 8x type20380)

 

[Viet]

If Russian could cost down, why Vietnam bought 6x kilo(type636) still need 2.1billion U.S dollar(other news said 3.2billion)? In the past, 2005 China just spent 1.8billion bought 8x kilo(type636) submarines from Russia. (before 2005 China owned 2x type636 and 2x type877 kilo submarines).

nobody knows exactly how much Vietnam pays, but the packet consists of 6 attack subs including crew training, weapons, and submarine base (Cam Ranh). So $3.2billion may be a more realistic figure.

Prepare another 100 million $ to purchase additional anti-aircraft missiles and advanced anti-ship missiles for warships, if u wanna using Russian missiles also need money to update electronic control system, fire control system and radar system.

there are rumors that Vietnam plans to increase annual defence budget to $10 bn. So that would not be a problem to finance.

China 054A class 4,000ton high-performance frigate just cost 200million $.

You does not sell weapons to Vietnam.

Vietnam imported Russian Gepard-3.9(type11611E) light frigate cost 150million $, a 2,100ton warship without any anti-aircraft missiles. (Better to choose Tiger(type20380) frigate, Indonesia
Navy will import 8x type20380)

I think if other sources, Vietnam would buy ships from Japan or Korea.

 

[hurt]

With some few exceptions, the current laws of Japan forbid exporting weapons to overseas. Even the scope of Japanese army is very limitted, strickly in terms of budgets and defence.

If Mr Abe wins the upcoming upper house election, taking place on next Sunday, he is expected to change the post war constitutions. That would allow him more freedoms on foreign policy, including selling warships to Vietnam. I know Japan builds some good subs and destroyers, so I wish Mr Abe good luck as he is a friend of Vietnam.

a friend of VietnamHe just wanted to find a target to attract firepower
you can not afford Japanese warships,and they cant provide air defense missile and anti-ship missile.

Many Chinese dream day and night of how to take back Vietnam, integrating into the Chinese Empire...I am afraid it is hopeless, we see no end of conflicts in sight.

we dont care about Vietnam,You're just a burden.we only need get back my south sea.

 

[hurt]

Always talking about boats aren't you, Boat Boy?

maybe your navy need boats

 

[Soryu]

If Russian could cost down, why Vietnam bought 6x kilo(type636) still need 2.1billion U.S dollar(other news said 3.2billion)? In the past, 2005 China just spent 1.8billion bought 8x kilo(type636) submarines from Russia. (before 2005 China owned 2x type636 and 2x type877 kilo submarines).



Prepare another 100 million $ to purchase additional anti-aircraft missiles and advanced anti-ship missiles for warships, if u wanna using Russian missiles also need money to update electronic control system, fire control system and radar system.

China 054A class 4,000ton high-performance frigate just cost 200million $.
Vietnam imported Russian Gepard-3.9(type11611E) light frigate cost 150million $, a 2,100ton warship without any anti-aircraft missiles. (Better to choose Tiger(type20380) frigate, Indonesia
Navy will import 8x type20380)

Official anwser from VPA General said 6 Kilo submarine cost ~ 1.8 billion dollars. Others supply and stuff can get more money up to 3.2 billion dollars include training equipment, weapon, Submarine base ....
And you said that, it's in past, not recent time.

054A maybe good stuff, but we have example from Thailand Navy. Even if PRC want sell it to us, we also don't know what's "extra gift" give by PRC on the ship. And many PRC weapon systems came from Russian, so ...

Gepard 3.9 has Palma system for CIWS defense. Tiger class (20380) was not mature enough in time, even Russian crew ship also complain about life support system in 20380 project. And now, they go for 20385 project for better design.
So we must wait for more if we want it. But we can't, and you know why.

 

[Viet]

Zhang Yang meets with Vietnamese deputy defense minister

(China Military Online)
09:03, July 18, 2013

BEIJING, July 17 (ChinaMil) -- Zhang Yang, member of the Central Military Commission (CMC) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) and director of the General Political Department (GPD) of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), met with Nguyen Kim Ton, the visiting deputy defense minister of Vietnam, and his party on July 16, 2013 in Beijing.

Zhang Yang said that China and Vietnam are neighbors with common mountain ranges and waterways, cultural affinity, the same ideals and interrelated fate, and the bilateral friendship has been deeply rooted in the hearts of their people.

In recent years, the Chinese and Vietnamese militaries have carried out good cooperation in such fields as high-level reciprocal visits, personnel training, border and coastal defense contacts, and experience sharing in army building and governing. Under the current situation, the two sides are supposed to further strengthen exchanges and cooperation and learn useful experience from each other, so as to strive to constantly promote the development of relations between the two militaries.

Nguyen Kim Ton said that the Vietnamese is willing to make joint efforts with the Chinese side to push forward sustainable and stable development of the bilateral friendly and cooperative relations.

Du Jincai, deputy director of the GPD of the PLA, was present at the meeting.

 

[Viet]

a friend of VietnamHe just wanted to find a target to attract firepower
you can not afford Japanese warships,and they cant provide air defense missile and anti-ship missile.

let wait and see what comes if Mr Abe wins the upcoming election, he has some nice news for you.

we dont care about Vietnam,You're just a burden.we only need get back my south sea.

you troll too much, dude...you can begin to claim my toilet as yours since ancient times.

Anyway I wonder when our politicians or military generals visit China, your people always talk of common mountains, cultures, ideals and fate, and friendship...such stuffs? if you don´t care about us.

 

[hurt]

let wait and see what comes if Mr Abe wins the upcoming election, he has some nice news for you.

I am waiting ,but i think its not a good news for you.

Anyway I wonder when our politicians or military generals visit China, your people always talk of common mountains, cultures, ideals and fate, and friendship...such stuffs? if you don´t care about us.

Kid,Do you know whats Diplomatic language?

 

[cnleio]

054A maybe good stuff, but we have example from Thailand Navy. Even if PRC want sell it to us, we also don't know what's "extra gift" give by PRC on the ship. And many PRC weapon systems came from Russian, so ...

I don't know where u get information the China weapon system came from Russian ? If they from Russian, Why Russia Navy warships not install any VLS anti-aircraft missile like HHQ-16 and HHQ-9 in China 054A and 052C class？ Why Russia Navy warships not install any close defense missile like HHQ-10 RAM in China 056 class and CV16 A.C ? Our CIWS also looks completely difference. Our domestic C-802,C-803, YJ-62 etc anti-ship missile all different. Okay even Navy J-15 fighter looks like Su-33 but Russian can't resume their own Su-33 production line and prepare for Mig-29k with Indian.

And China did not export 1 warship to Thailand, from 1990s to 2005 we exported 3 kinds of many warships to Thailand Royal Navy. Even if Thailand won't select China warships, it just means they have higher requirement and enough fund to purchase other advnaced warship from foreign country, the weapon market is the business and customer could choose other better weapons.

 

[Soryu]

I don't know where u get information the China weapon system came from Russian ? If they from Russian, Why Russia Navy warships not install any VLS anti-aircraft missile like HHQ-16 and HHQ-9 in China 054A and 052C class？ Why Russia Navy warships not install any close defense missile like HHQ-10 RAM in China 056 class and CV16 A.C ? Our CIWS also looks completely difference. Our domestic C-802,C-803, YJ-62 etc anti-ship missile all different. Okay even Navy J-15 fighter looks like Su-33 but Russian can't resume their own Su-33 production line and prepare for Mig-29k with Indian.

And China did not export 1 warship to Thailand, from 1990s to 2005 we exported 3 kinds of many warships to Thailand Royal Navy. Even if Thailand won't select China warships, it just means they have higher requirement and enough fund to purchase other advnaced warship from foreign country, the weapon market is the business and customer could choose other better weapons.

I read in many source said "many" (not all) PRC system design by some Russian Institute like radar, VLS, missile HHQ-16 on 054A, and some more examples. Like everyone know, China got many good thing from Russsia, it's true.

Hm, I don't know detail of Thailand - China deal in 1990 to 2005, just got news about Thai's navy complaim and want upgrade 053H3 ship by Euro company, not PRC pack.

 

[cnleio]

I read in many source said "many" (not all) PRC system design by some Russian Institute like radar, VLS, missile HHQ-16 on 054A, and some more examples. Like everyone know, China got many good thing from Russsia, it's true.
Hm, I don't know detail of Thailand - China deal in 1990 to 2005, just got news about Thai's navy complaim and want upgrade 053H3 ship by Euro company, not PRC pack.

Okay, 053H3 class is a old fashion shipbody even PLAN didn't consider 053 and 053H3 as main warship. It's obviously 053H3's weapons and radar system cheaper and lower than 054,052 class.
And Thailand bought these 053H3 nearly twenty years ago, what u can hope ? Hope it can as powerful as today 2010 latest warship ? Ironically, they need to be updated or to buy latest warship.

@Soryu, i need to correct here. China HHQ-16 VLS is the hot-launched VLS system,it's working principle like American MK-41 VLS. We knew currently cold-launched VLS still be installed on Russia warships like SA-N-6C. I didn't see new Russia warship using hot-launched VLS yet, can u remind me ? Yep, i believe Russian finally develop domestic hot-launched VLS on their warship, but Chinese developed HHQ-16 much earlier than them.

MK-41 hot launch:

HHQ-16 hot launch:

HHQ-9 like SA-N-6C, it's cold launch:

Russia SA-N-6C cold launch (PLAN 051C DDG using SA-N-6C):

↑ It's very very clear ~!

 

[Soryu]

Okay, 053H3 class is a old fashion shipbody even PLAN didn't consider 053 and 053H3 as main warship. It's obviously 053H3's weapons and radar system cheaper and lower than 054,052 class.
And Thailand bought these 053H3 nearly twenty years ago, what u can hope ? Hope it can as powerful as today 2010 latest warship ? Ironically, they need to be updated or to buy latest warship.

@Soryu, i need to correct here. China HHQ-16 VLS is the hot-launched VLS system,it's working principle like American MK-41 VLS. We knew currently cold-launched VLS still be installed on Russia warships like SA-N-6C. I didn't see new Russia warship using hot-launched VLS yet, can u remind me ? Yep, i believe Russian finally install domestic hot-launched VLS on their warship, but Chinese developed HHQ-16 much earlier than them.

Well, I don't know detail Thai's navy deal with SAAB, you can right on 053H3 case. But Chile and Peru can become another example about immature system from China.

Right, but their new VLS like Redut and USUK are hot launch system (in 20380 and 20385 project).
In case, maybe Russia Institute design VLS system for China HHQ-16, get money and experience for their own system. Same case was happened with South Korean MR-SAM and new system presented by Russian in recent days.

 

[cnleio]

Well, I don't know detail Thai's navy deal with SAAB, you can right on 053H3 case. But Chile and Peru can become another example about immature system from China.

Right, but their new VLS like Redut and USUK are hot launch system (in 20380 and 20385 project).
In case, maybe Russia Institute design VLS system for China HHQ-16, get money and experience for their own system. Same case was happened with South Korean MR-SAM and new system presented by Russian in recent days.

Well, it maybe RIGHT or WRONG coz no any official confirmed just a rumor ^_^. Anyway if we refer by equipment time the China hot-launch VLS system served in Navy really earlier than Russia. Russian still developing their own hot-launch VLS right now.

Chinese didn't stop, 2013 we saw the pix of new 052D class DDG, Chinese had developed a new universal hot-launch VLS system, that new VLS could launch anti-aircraft missile and anti-ship missile together, all China missiles in one VLS unite.