Vietnam Defence Forum

[Aqsuperman]

Dude, that is why we dont board Viet ships anymore, we shoot at them. And no, the latest ship we shot at was a VN CG ship, not a wooden ship. So you see? It is Vietnam that escalated the conflict from just a board and search patrol. Like I have always said, VN always forgot to see themselves on the mirror. Want me to buy you one?

Now the question is, what are you going to do about it? Nothing? Alright, now go scram.

No one shoots the law enforcement of another country and claims: "I'm not at fault". Have ships from VN Coast Guard ever opened fire with live ammunition on Indonesian vessels? No? Then why the fck that it was us that escalate the conflict? You are drunk with national pride or what?

But I guess since you are born with an unstable mind, you have a hard time comprehending SOCIAL NORMS. Want to shoot empty Vietnam fishing boats? Help yourself. But the next time we napped an unlucky fisheries officer from Indonesia, he might not come back in one piece.

Lol casualties in war is a must. Speaking of getting killed. what about the 840.000+ casualties in vietnam war? Im sure they are having a great time getting killed or firebombed.LOL. im sure that is something to be proud of

I admit that indonesian forces uses inhumane way in many of the conflict area, but what about you? Arent your government busy building "reeducation" camp back then ?? You must be the most moral army in the world Hahahahaha

Commies talk about morality, its joke

Hey it was you Indonesian that come up with all the guts and "military will" first. I simply pointed out some facts that the Indonesian military, with all that stuff they bought from world superpowers, could not handle a couple of rebel groups but they are so eager to shoot fishing boats. Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago and after that, we have to fought in Cambodia but in the end, peace reign over Vietnam. Indonesian nowadays? 24 Indonesian workers got their throat sliced and tossed into a mass grave. Indonesian polices tortured prisoners using snake.

So you Indonesian called your country the big bro of Asian while letting rebels run around killing civilian? Moreover, your lawn enforcement use snake to force information out of suspect? You sure Indonesia is the ultimate protagonist in every story after hearing that?

Of course, Vietnam would not brag about its "morality" back in the old days but in the 21st century, Vietnam dare to call itself to be better than Indonesia. Proof? WE. DON'T. BOMB. OUR. COUNTRYMEN.

With all that said, I strongly recommended that you Indonesian go back to where you are. Vietnam-Indonesia relation experience bumps from time to time. Let the officials sort it out instead of accusing others and arouse "unpleasant" memories. But if you Indonesian wish to go further with "re-education camps" and believe that Indonesia is always the right party, I'm more than happy to entertain you with "Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66", "Human right in Aceh", "Papua struggle for independence". Gosh, I bet we are going to have a good time with each other discussing those subjects, right gents?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

No one shoots the law enforcement of another country and claims: "I'm not at fault". Have ships from VN Coast Guard ever opened fire with live ammunition on Indonesian vessels? No? Then why the fck that it was us that escalate the conflict? You are drunk with national pride or what?

But I guess since you are born with an unstable mind, you have a hard time comprehending SOCIAL NORMS. Want to shoot empty Vietnam fishing boats? Help yourself. But the next time we napped an unlucky fisheries officer from Indonesia, he might not come back in one piece.





Hey it was you Indonesian that come up with all the guts and "military will" first. I simply pointed out some facts that the Indonesian military, with all that stuff they bought from world superpowers, could not handle a couple of rebel groups but they are so eager to shoot fishing boats. Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago and after that, we have to fought in Cambodia but in the end, peace reign over Vietnam. Indonesian nowadays? 24 Indonesian workers got their throat sliced and tossed into a mass grave. Indonesian polices tortured prisoners using snake.

So you Indonesian called your country the big bro of Asian while letting rebels run around killing civilian? Moreover, your lawn enforcement use snake to force information out of suspect? You sure Indonesia is the ultimate protagonist in every story after hearing that?

Of course, Vietnam would not brag about its "morality" back in the old days but in the 21st century, Vietnam dare to call itself to be better than Indonesia. Proof? WE. DON'T. BOMB. OUR. COUNTRYMEN.

With all that said, I strongly recommended that you Indonesian go back to where you are. Vietnam-Indonesia relation experience bumps from time to time. Let the officials sort it out instead of accusing others and arouse "unpleasant" memories. But if you Indonesian wish to go further with "re-education camps" and believe that Indonesia is always the right party, I'm more than happy to entertain you with "Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66", "Human right in Aceh", "Papua struggle for independence". Gosh, I bet we are going to have a good time with each other discussing those subjects, right gents?

Vietnam have no overlapping claim on our territory. Yet most boats we captured came from you guys. The VN coast guard entered indonesian waters illegally to extract 4 fishing boats. This is 100% vietnamese fault.

3 vietnamese ship to be destroyed & Susi demanding an apology from the vietnamese government:
https://regional.kompas.com/read/20...nam-ditenggelamkan-di-laut-terdepan-indonesia

 

[TenLua]

I was trying to be nice, guess I was wrong.... Don't mess with the Indonesian army, they invaded the East Timor in the 90s and destroyed that island powerful army. But ran before the Aussies get involved. Indonesia also is the most easy defendable country in the world with thousands and thousands of islands.


You good fighting when you outnumber people by 10 against 1, East Timor, Christian and chinese massacres in the 90s, Papua conflict, Aceh conflict are a few examples.....Please remind me how we call people that fight in large number against a few...

Can’t blame them really; Australia, arguably, have the best ground fighting force in the world. You can tell by their accent. And their track record.

Is there not enough castrophies in Indonesia? Why the aghression on here?

 

[Aqsuperman]

Vietnam have no overlapping claim on our territory. Yet most boats we captured came from you guys. The VN coast guard entered indonesian waters illegally to extract 4 fishing boats. This is 100% vietnamese fault.

3 vietnamese ship to be destroyed & Susi demanding an apology from the vietnamese government:
https://regional.kompas.com/read/20...nam-ditenggelamkan-di-laut-terdepan-indonesia

Vietnam and Indonesian have no overlapping claims in term of territory. However, what Vietnamese and Indonesian are going to kill each other for is the claim of "traditional fishing ground". Yes, I agree that the term is kind of vague with lackluster proof but everyone In South East Asia (and China) is playing with that. I also believe that Indonesia and China have issues with that term near Natuna Regency.

Do I claim that Vietnamese fisherman always obeys the integrity of the territorial waters of other countries? Nah, I'm a Vietnamese and I know my countrymen are not exactly "by the rule" type. Nonetheless, what I'm saying now (and from the very beginning) is that I highly disapprove of the conducts of the Indonesian law enforcement. Shooting at the waters near a Vietnam Coast Guard vessel is provocative. It could not lead to war but all it takes is one slip of feet and it sure as hell would escalate the tension between countries.

But it seems that most Indonesian here fail to see my point. They prefer to taunt history of Vietnam and come up with derogatory comments aim toward Vietnam People Armed Forces and Vietnamese fisherman. One fcker even go as far as to make jokes of the sacrifice of our soldiers in Vietnam-China reef skirmishes. Would you feel funny if I laughed at Bali bombing and criticized the ability of Indonesian military to prevent attacks on civilians since that incident regardless of how many soldiers have died in the attempt? That is why I said that if the Indonesian in here keep sticking stubbornly with the "Indonesia is always right we have a higher moral standard than Vietnam" after all the articles I posted about dead Indonesian workers in a mass grave and Indonesian polices torturing suspects with a freaking snake, I'm going to take things up a notch here.

 

[Viet]

Can’t blame them really; Australia, arguably, have the best ground fighting force in the world. You can tell by their accent. And their track record.

Is there not enough castrophies in Indonesia? Why the aghression on here?

Indo people tend to become aggressive at some point, be in conflict or discussion. I don’t understand why so. It’s hard to have a normal conservation with such people. Their forefathers from Borneo once came to indochinese mainland occupying central part of Vietnam today. They were primitive society, practicing caste system and slave trades. Good, we one day erased them from the planet. The best thing we have ever done for humanity.

No more talks no more discussion

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Vietnam and Indonesian have no overlapping claims in term of territory. However, what Vietnamese and Indonesian are going to kill each other for is the claim of "traditional fishing ground". Yes, I agree that the term is kind of vague with lackluster proof but everyone In South East Asia (and China) is playing with that. I also believe that Indonesia and China have issues with that term near Natuna Regency.

Do I claim that Vietnamese fisherman always obeys the integrity of the territorial waters of other countries? Nah, I'm a Vietnamese and I know my countrymen are not exactly "by the rule" type. Nonetheless, what I'm saying now (and from the very beginning) is that I highly disapprove of the conducts of the Indonesian law enforcement. Shooting at the waters near a Vietnam Coast Guard vessel is provocative. It could not lead to war but all it takes is one slip of feet and it sure as hell would escalate the tension between countries.

But it seems that most Indonesian here fail to see my point. They prefer to taunt history of Vietnam and come up with derogatory comments aim toward Vietnam People Armed Forces and Vietnamese fisherman. One fcker even go as far as to make jokes of the sacrifice of our soldiers in Vietnam-China reef skirmishes. Would you feel funny if I laughed at Bali bombing and criticized the ability of Indonesian military to prevent attacks on civilians since that incident regardless of how many soldiers have died in the attempt? That is why I said that if the Indonesian in here keep sticking stubbornly with the "Indonesia is always right we have a higher moral standard than Vietnam" after all the articles I posted about dead Indonesian workers in a mass grave and Indonesian polices torturing suspects with a freaking snake, I'm going to take things up a notch here.

You & I both know that the vietnamese claims of innocence doesn't hold water. That's why vietnam doesn't take this to the international court & remain silent about this. Because even your government knows that they're full of sh!ts.

You assume that vietnamese fishermen are independent agents. The truth is Vietnamese fishing fleet are part of the VPA they won't dare fish outside their water unless they have approval of the government. That's why its okay to say the vietnamese are acting like scums.

 

[Aqsuperman]

You & I both know that the vietnamese claims of innocence doesn't hold water. That's why vietnam doesn't take this to the international court & remain silent about this. Because even your government knows that they're full of sh!ts.

You assume that Vietnamese fishermen are independent agents. The truth is Vietnamese fishing fleet are part of the VPA they won't dare fish outside their water unless they have approval of the government. That's why its okay to say the vietnamese are acting like scums.

What you have there is nothing but a mix between assumption and prejudge toward everyone else beside your own country. Unlike our friend from the Philippine, we Vietnamese know for certain that even if we win at international court, no one would bother to enforce the rule. Why bother wasting money for a thing that could not help? Philippine came out on top at the Hague court and guess what? Chinese fisherman still stroll all over Philippine waters nowadays.

But what I found to be extremely funny is that you claim our fisherman to be an extension of our military. You have any idea what is the cost of such a system in practice? I bet you must have a read a bunch of article about Chinese militia fleet and assume that Vietnam employ the same practice. No, Vietnamese fishermans go out to the sea to feed their families, they are not combatants. However, in Indonesian eyes, every country in ASEAN must be scum to "fish near Indonesia" and Indonesian military "show serious gut" by open fire on vessels of foreign law enforcement. Feel free to indulge yourself with shooting empty fishing boat while rebels kill workers and polices torture suspects using snakes. Perhaps in the end, such is the way the mind of the average blindingly prideful Indonesian work.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

What you have there is nothing but a mix between assumption and prejudge toward everyone else beside your own country. Unlike our friend from the Philippine, we Vietnamese know for certain that even if we win at international court, no one would bother to enforce the rule. Why bother wasting money for a thing that could not help? Philippine came out on top at the Hague court and guess what? Chinese fisherman still stroll all over Philippine waters nowadays.

But what I found to be extremely funny is that you claim our fisherman to be an extension of our military. You have any idea what is the cost of such a system in practice? I bet you must have a read a bunch of article about Chinese militia fleet and assume that Vietnam employ the same practice. No, Vietnamese fishermans go out to the sea to feed their families, they are not combatants. However, in Indonesian eyes, every country in ASEAN must be scum to "fish near Indonesia" and Indonesian military "show serious gut" by open fire on vessels of foreign law enforcement. Feel free to indulge yourself with shooting empty fishing boat while rebels kill workers and polices torture suspects using snakes. Perhaps in the end, such is the way the mind of the average blindingly prideful Indonesian work.

Chronology of the incidents:

KRI Bung Tomo (KRI TOM-357) approach & try to capture 4 vietnamese fishing boat (BV 525 TS, BV 9487 TS, BV 4923 TS, BV 525) in the natuna sea (05° 51' 40" U - 105° 49' 50" T) but then received a hail from 2 VFRS (Kiem Ngu 2142124 & 214263) boats to release the 4 vietnamese ships, the 2 vietnamese then try to block the corvette path by using dangerous maneuver which are illegal under article number 8 of COLREGS 1972 of which vietnam is a signatory & numerous other violations. To avoid collision the corvette fired 3 warning shots using small calibre gun but were all ignored, only after the corvette used its 76mm gun the 2 ships finally leaves the scene.

This is not the 1st time that vietnam used its coast guard ships to interfere with lawful arrest. Last month KN-241 almost collided with KP Hiu Macan 01 for trying to arrest 4 vietnamese fishing boats. Who's willing to bet its the same ships that we just arrested.

For all your claims of the vietnamese fishermen not being part of the military the VFRS sure willing to go through all that trouble protecting thieves.

Let's face it you guys are no different than the chinese, you guys are even worse perhaps in this regards by being all hypocrite about it.

 

[nufix]

Chronology of the incidents:

KRI Bung Tomo (KRI TOM-357) approach & try to capture 4 vietnamese fishing boat (BV 525 TS, BV 9487 TS, BV 4923 TS, BV 525) in the natuna sea (05° 51' 40" U - 105° 49' 50" T) but then received a hail from 2 VFRS (Kiem Ngu 2142124 & 214263) boats to release the 4 vietnamese ships, the 2 vietnamese then try to block the corvette path by using dangerous maneuver which are illegal under article number 8 of COLREGS 1972 of which vietnam is a signatory & numerous other violations. To avoid collision the corvette fired 3 warning shots using small calibre gun but were all ignored, only after the corvette used its 76mm gun the 2 ships finally leaves the scene.

This is not the 1st time that vietnam used its coast guard ships to interfere with lawful arrest. Last month KN-241 almost collided with KP Hiu Macan 01 for trying to arrest 4 vietnamese fishing boats. Who's willing to bet its the same ships that we just arrested.

For all your claims of the vietnamese fishermen not being part of the military the VFRS sure willing to go through all that trouble protecting thieves.

Let's face it you guys are no different than the chinese, you guys are even worse perhaps in this regards by being all hypocrite about it.

It is like I have always been saying, apparently there is no mirror whatsoever in Vietnam. They tend to avoid looking at themselves in the mirror. Many times Viets throw accusations at other countries, I am 100% certain that they are also doing the same thing.

 

[striver44]

No one shoots the law enforcement of another country and claims: "I'm not at fault". Have ships from VN Coast Guard ever opened fire with live ammunition on Indonesian vessels? No? Then why the fck that it was us that escalate the conflict? You are drunk with national pride or what?

But I guess since you are born with an unstable mind, you have a hard time comprehending SOCIAL NORMS. Want to shoot empty Vietnam fishing boats? Help yourself. But the next time we napped an unlucky fisheries officer from Indonesia, he might not come back in one piece.





Hey it was you Indonesian that come up with all the guts and "military will" first. I simply pointed out some facts that the Indonesian military, with all that stuff they bought from world superpowers, could not handle a couple of rebel groups but they are so eager to shoot fishing boats. Vietnam War ended more than 30 years ago and after that, we have to fought in Cambodia but in the end, peace reign over Vietnam. Indonesian nowadays? 24 Indonesian workers got their throat sliced and tossed into a mass grave. Indonesian polices tortured prisoners using snake.

So you Indonesian called your country the big bro of Asian while letting rebels run around killing civilian? Moreover, your lawn enforcement use snake to force information out of suspect? You sure Indonesia is the ultimate protagonist in every story after hearing that?

Of course, Vietnam would not brag about its "morality" back in the old days but in the 21st century, Vietnam dare to call itself to be better than Indonesia. Proof? WE. DON'T. BOMB. OUR. COUNTRYMEN.

With all that said, I strongly recommended that you Indonesian go back to where you are. Vietnam-Indonesia relation experience bumps from time to time. Let the officials sort it out instead of accusing others and arouse "unpleasant" memories. But if you Indonesian wish to go further with "re-education camps" and believe that Indonesia is always the right party, I'm more than happy to entertain you with "Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66", "Human right in Aceh", "Papua struggle for independence". Gosh, I bet we are going to have a good time with each other discussing those subjects, right gents?

Dude we merely fire warning shot. Stop making it like we shoot straight into your boat

Vietnam and Indonesian have no overlapping claims in term of territory. However, what Vietnamese and Indonesian are going to kill each other for is the claim of "traditional fishing ground". Yes, I agree that the term is kind of vague with lackluster proof but everyone In South East Asia (and China) is playing with that. I also believe that Indonesia and China have issues with that term near Natuna Regency.

Do I claim that Vietnamese fisherman always obeys the integrity of the territorial waters of other countries? Nah, I'm a Vietnamese and I know my countrymen are not exactly "by the rule" type. Nonetheless, what I'm saying now (and from the very beginning) is that I highly disapprove of the conducts of the Indonesian law enforcement. Shooting at the waters near a Vietnam Coast Guard vessel is provocative. It could not lead to war but all it takes is one slip of feet and it sure as hell would escalate the tension between countries.

But it seems that most Indonesian here fail to see my point. They prefer to taunt history of Vietnam and come up with derogatory comments aim toward Vietnam People Armed Forces and Vietnamese fisherman. One fcker even go as far as to make jokes of the sacrifice of our soldiers in Vietnam-China reef skirmishes. Would you feel funny if I laughed at Bali bombing and criticized the ability of Indonesian military to prevent attacks on civilians since that incident regardless of how many soldiers have died in the attempt? That is why I said that if the Indonesian in here keep sticking stubbornly with the "Indonesia is always right we have a higher moral standard than Vietnam" after all the articles I posted about dead Indonesian workers in a mass grave and Indonesian polices torturing suspects with a freaking snake, I'm going to take things up a notch here.

Well at least we fight against terrorism. Even sophisticated europeam countries like france,germany,belgium failed to foil many terrorist attack LOL. Unlike you of course who funded terror group like VC

 

[Aqsuperman]

Chronology of the incidents:

KRI Bung Tomo (KRI TOM-357) approach & try to capture 4 vietnamese fishing boat (BV 525 TS, BV 9487 TS, BV 4923 TS, BV 525) in the natuna sea (05° 51' 40" U - 105° 49' 50" T) but then received a hail from 2 VFRS (Kiem Ngu 2142124 & 214263) boats to release the 4 vietnamese ships, the 2 vietnamese then try to block the corvette path by using dangerous maneuver which are illegal under article number 8 of COLREGS 1972 of which vietnam is a signatory & numerous other violations. To avoid collision the corvette fired 3 warning shots using small calibre gun but were all ignored, only after the corvette used its 76mm gun the 2 ships finally leaves the scene.

This is not the 1st time that vietnam used its coast guard ships to interfere with lawful arrest. Last month KN-241 almost collided with KP Hiu Macan 01 for trying to arrest 4 vietnamese fishing boats. Who's willing to bet its the same ships that we just arrested.

For all your claims of the vietnamese fishermen not being part of the military the VFRS sure willing to go through all that trouble protecting thieves.

Let's face it you guys are no different than the chinese, you guys are even worse perhaps in this regards by being all hypocrite about it.

It is like I have always been saying, apparently there is no mirror whatsoever in Vietnam. They tend to avoid looking at themselves in the mirror. Many times Viets throw accusations at other countries, I am 100% certain that they are also doing the same thing

Once again, I need to point out some facts:

- What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.

- Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.

Well at least we fight against terrorism. Even sophisticated europeam countries like france,germany,belgium failed to foil many terrorist attack LOL. Unlike you of course who funded terror group like VC

- Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?

 

[Viet]

It is like I have always been saying, apparently there is no mirror whatsoever in Vietnam. They tend to avoid looking at themselves in the mirror. Many times Viets throw accusations at other countries, I am 100% certain that they are also doing the same thing.

What accusation? You and other including your nationalist political establishment are the one here that throw accusations. Who resorted to using guns? Yes it’s You!

Lol casualties in war is a must. Speaking of getting killed. what about the 840.000+ casualties in vietnam war? Im sure they are having a great time getting killed or firebombed.LOL. im sure that is something to be proud of

I admit that indonesian forces uses inhumane way in many of the conflict area, but what about you? Arent your government busy building "reeducation" camp back then ?? You must be the most moral army in the world Hahahahaha

Aha making fun of Vietnam war casualties? Shameless clown!

 

[barjo]

Once again, I need to point out some facts:

- What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.

- Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.



- Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?

sorry about that bro... real soldier real navy ain't use water gun... sorry to say.. we dont make people wet LoL

 

[Viet]

sorry about that bro... real soldier real navy ain't use water gun... sorry to say.. we dont make people wet LoL

Why Lol? Don’t act like a nationalist retard!

 

[Aqsuperman]

sorry about that bro... real soldier real navy ain't use water gun... sorry to say.. we dont make people wet LoL

There is a reason why Japan, South Korea and a whole lot of country rely on water guns to take care of disputes in the sea. First, people rarely die from that. Second, it could hardly be classified as military actions so the tension shall remain in check.

But it seems that you ultra-nationalist Indonesian only care about things like: "Hah, I shoot you and you don't dare to do anything. That makes me stronger than you". That kind of mind would lead to disaster someday. In fact, it already did. With the rebels running amok in Indonesia and repeated natural disasters (my condolence to the dead and those who are suffering), I dare say Indonesia government is attempting to divert some of the dissatisfaction to other countries. Guess what kind of subject would vitalize the average Indonesian these kinds of days: shooting a bunch of empty fishing boats and acting aggressive against lawn enforcement of a fellow ASEAN member.