Vietnam Defence Forum

[Ambalat]

Our backyard so it's our rules, period!
Sometimes thiefs got killed by their victim and sometimes by law enforcement, it happened everywhere.
I must say, that's the risk of their job.
So, my advise is... If you don't wanna get hurt then don't get in to trouble or get another job instead.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Once again, I need to point out some facts:

- What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.

- Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.



- Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?

Fun facts: Vietnam's source cannot be trusted. Considering we captured over 200! Of your ships. Your government are responsible for more than half of the ships captured by our coast guards & navy.

 

[barjo]

There is a reason why Japan, South Korea and a whole lot of country rely on water guns to take care of disputes in the sea. First, people rarely die from that. Second, it could hardly be classified as military actions so the tension shall remain in check.

But it seems that you ultra-nationalist Indonesian only care about things like: "Hah, I shoot you and you don't dare to do anything. That makes me stronger than you". That kind of mind would lead to disaster someday. In fact, it already did. With the rebels running amok in Indonesia and repeated natural disasters (my condolence to the dead and those who are suffering), I dare say Indonesia government is attempting to divert some of the dissatisfaction to other countries. Guess what kind of subject would vitalize the average Indonesian these kinds of days: shooting a bunch of empty fishing boats and acting aggressive against lawn enforcement of a fellow ASEAN member.

like to be said here in world to became nationalist ultra nationalis you may say... you must learn from vietnam.. am I right bro? LoL

 

[striver44]

There is a reason why Japan, South Korea and a whole lot of country rely on water guns to take care of disputes in the sea. First, people rarely die from that. Second, it could hardly be classified as military actions so the tension shall remain in check.

But it seems that you ultra-nationalist Indonesian only care about things like: "Hah, I shoot you and you don't dare to do anything. That makes me stronger than you". That kind of mind would lead to disaster someday. In fact, it already did. With the rebels running amok in Indonesia and repeated natural disasters (my condolence to the dead and those who are suffering), I dare say Indonesia government is attempting to divert some of the dissatisfaction to other countries. Guess what kind of subject would vitalize the average Indonesian these kinds of days: shooting a bunch of empty fishing boats and acting aggressive against lawn enforcement of a fellow ASEAN member.

Speaking of natural disaster,vietnam regularly got fucked by typhoons.just sayin

What accusation? You and other including your nationalist political establishment are the one here that throw accusations. Who resorted to using guns? Yes it’s You!


Aha making fun of Vietnam war casualties? Shameless clown!

Whats with the anger.? You started it

Once again, I need to point out some facts:

- What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots. VFRS is created to regulate fishing activity so of course it would go to great length to protect Vietnam fisherman. It's like claiming the citizen of a country is linked to the police because the police protect them. You claims are full of holes. It's all about who you believe. As a Vietnamese, I place my trust in my countrymen (though they fail me from time to time). I don't like to bite the words that come out from people whose police use snake to torture suspects.

- Hypocrite? Oh that is funny indeed. For years we have attempted to tackle our difference while working with other countries. You think Vietnam could make it till this very day by accusing other countries all day long? No, we work out butt our and guess what: WE. DON'T. SHOOT. AT. FISHERMAN. FROM. OTHER. COUNTRIES. Want to make an arrest? Feel free but if you open fire with live ammunition, don't bother taking about hypocrisy.



- Europeans are FIGHTING against terrorism. Indonesia is LOSING against terrorism. 24 workers got their their throat sliced in the middle of the day? That is far from a fight, it's a massacre . But if you prefer to go back to wartime stories, i could provide you with some interesting topics about Indonesian para-military back in the 60s, 70s in their "communist hunt". Pretty sure their methods match the human right standards instead of "terrorizing" others, right?

Wohoooo interesting, vietcong state funded terror group must be a center of national pride lol. Im sorry for those poor vietnam civillians that vietcong terrorist killed without mercy,their properties sacked by some commie proletariat clowns who later at the end of the century goes full capitalist hahahahaha.NORTH VIETNAM must be proud.

 

[Aqsuperman]

Fun facts: Vietnam's source cannot be trusted. Considering we captured over 200! Of your ships. Your government are responsible for more than half of the ships captured by our coast guards & navy.

Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.

Our backyard so it's our rules, period!
Sometimes thiefs got killed by their victim and sometimes by law enforcement, it happened everywhere.
I must say, that's the risk of their job.
So, my advise is... If you don't wanna get hurt then don't get in to trouble or get another job instead.

You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim

Speaking of natural disaster,vietnam regularly got fucked by typhoons.just sayin

But hey, we did not got fked that frequently compared to Indonesia these kinds of days, right? 2018 Lombok earthquake, 2018 Sulawesi earthquake and tsunami, 2018 Sunda Strait tsunami, 2019 South Sulawesi floods,... Indonesian died left and right all over the place. Gosh and your military still have times and resources to shoot empty fishing boats. The average Indonesian must have felt happy about that. You sure God don't want to tear Indonesia a new one as punishment for acting like ones without brain?

Wohoooo interesting, vietcong state funded terror group must be a center of national pride lol. Im sorry for those poor vietnam civillians that vietcong terrorist killed without mercy,their properties sacked by some commie proletariat clowns who later at the end of the century goes full capitalist hahahahaha.NORTH VIETNAM must be proud LOL.

And you have gone full retard with those unintelligible screams. Did you smash your keyboard while typing that sentence? Let me enlighten you with some information about about Indonesian and their "communist hunts". I will try to use simple words so one with reduced intelligence like you could understand.

"With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."

"The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"

"Those arrested included leading politicians, artists and writers such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, and peasants and soldiers. Those incarcerated in the vast network of prisons and concentration camps faced "extraordinarily inhumane conditions." Many did not survive this first period of detention, dying from malnutrition and beatings"

Well.... I guess everything fit the doctrine of Indonesian on human right? Let's see how Indonesian are doing nowadays.

"Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"

"Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."

"Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."

Can I have a round of applaud for the excellent service of the Indonesian military and their conduct in the 21st century please Oh wait, they are acting like the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. Man you guys put the "terror VC" to shame with what you guys are doing in Papua and Aceh. Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.

Words alone don't convince you about the brutality of Indonesian military? How about we share with each other some secret clips and pictures from Papua and Aceh? Man I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.

 

[striver44]

Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.



You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim



But hey, we did not got fked that frequently compared to Indonesia these kinds of days, right? 2018 Lombok earthquake, 2018 Sulawesi earthquake and tsunami, 2018 Sunda Strait tsunami, 2019 South Sulawesi floods,... Indonesian died left and right all over the place. Gosh and your military still have times and resources to shoot empty fishing boats. The average Indonesian must have felt happy about that. You sure God don't want to tear Indonesia a new one as punishment for acting like ones without brain?



And you have gone full retard with those unintelligible screams. Did you smash your keyboard while typing that sentence? Let me enlighten you with some information about about Indonesian and their "communist hunts". I will try to use simple words so one with reduced intelligence like you could understand.

"With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."

"The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"

"Those arrested included leading politicians, artists and writers such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, and peasants and soldiers. Those incarcerated in the vast network of prisons and concentration camps faced "extraordinarily inhumane conditions." Many did not survive this first period of detention, dying from malnutrition and beatings"

Well.... I guess everything fit the doctrine of Indonesian on human right? Let's see how Indonesian are doing nowadays.

"Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"

"Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."

"Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."

Can I have a round of applaud for the excellent service of the Indonesian military and their conduct in the 21st century please Oh wait, they are acting like the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. Man you guys put the "terror VC" to shame with what you guys are doing in Papua and Aceh. Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.

Words alone don't convince you about the brutality of Indonesian military? How about we share with each other some secret clips and pictures from Papua and Aceh? Man I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.

Pffffft hahahaha Well its acceptable at least we indonesian in this forum never see ourselves as if we are some kind of angels with moral high ground, if you look carefully i do admit indonesian forces mistreatment,unlike vietnamese forumers of course who blame indonesia for crimes while failing to look back at its own hahaha....as may indonesian forumers said before, dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl

 

[TenLua]

Pffffft hahahaha Well its acceptable at least we indonesian in this forum never see ourselves as if we are some kind of angels with moral high ground, if you look carefully i do admit indonesian forces mistreatment,unlike vietnamese forumers of course who blame indonesia for crimes while failing to look back at its own hahaha....as may indonesian forumers said before, dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl

Plenty of mirrors in VN. When VN looks in the mirror, it sees itself. There is no illusions about that. But when indo look at itself in the mirror, it sees VN. Analogous to a kitten and a lion.

I say that because of all the places you could be, you chose to be here, comparing indo to VN. Why?

 

[Ambalat]

Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.

You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim

At least your government should educate these fishermans beter, give or equip their boats wwith GPS or some something. If.. you wanna believe that traditional fishing ground bullshit, then good luck with chinese fishing boats and navy at the SCS. they believe the entire SCS also their traditional fishing ground. For your info, we already praised by our action... internationally, no doubt about that and thank's to our die hard and no mercy minister Susi Pudjiastuti. Just google.

 

[trishna_amṛta]

Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe.

What torture?! BTW if it's was me (or my people) we most likely bring sufficient size reticulated python to swallow the person whole (less paperwork that way)

Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.

Seriously Vietnam dare to bring the issue to international arbitrage?

"With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."

"The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"

"Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"

"Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."

"Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."

Care to provide any hard evidence other than hearsay or baseless acquisition that not only has no ground in reality but also doesn't make any sense whatsoever?

Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.

A yet here you are

I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.

How about you side shoot first, and well see how that will end.

dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl

They are commie, they still waiting for someone to "fairly sharing their wealth" which include mirror in it.

Once again, I need to point out some facts:

- What you said is YOUR chronology. In Vietnam, we have an entirely different version of the story. Our fisherman claim Indonesian ships often pop out and shoot straight into their boat, not warning shots.

And the person who tell the tell able to live through to tell the story?! Do you see the ridiculousness of that claim alone? If you still don't get it then I highly suggest you go to firing range and try to shoot some Ma Deuce against wooden plank or better a concrete block and see yourself the result.

 

[Nike]

Commies always commies, just like the GI's said during Nam War a good commies is a dead commies. Period.

 

[Aqsuperman]

Pffffft hahahaha Well its acceptable at least we indonesian in this forum never see ourselves as if we are some kind of angels with moral high ground, if you look carefully i do admit indonesian forces mistreatment,unlike vietnamese forumers of course who blame indonesia for crimes while failing to look back at its own hahaha....as may indonesian forumers said before, dont you have any mirror there in vietnam? If you dont, here I'll show you what it look like LOl

Oh, remind who is the fcker that bring the whole ordeal about this into Vietnam forum? Oh wait, it's you Indonesian with all that military will and gut. It was the Indonesian that stared this fight and keep it going. I already tell "Hey, shut up and go back to where you are. Let the officials take care of everything" but no, you Indonesian want to prove that you are always right. Now you are trying to say you know how evil the Indonesia is but at least you don't claim to be innocence like the Vietnamese. You are the BIGGEST F-A-G I have ever met in this forum with all those lies.

Moreover, your "terror VC" joke die pretty fast once I bring out the genocide stuff eh? Now you are babbling all days about "mirror, mirror, mirror. Talk about mirror or i would rage quit"

At least your government should educate these fishermans beter, give or equip their boats wwith GPS or some something. If.. you wanna believe that traditional fishing ground bullshit, then good luck with chinese fishing boats and navy at the SCS. they believe the entire SCS also their traditional fishing ground. For your info, we already praised by our action... internationally, no doubt about that and thank's to our die hard and no mercy minister Susi Pudjiastuti. Just google.

Sure, have fun with shooting up boat while rebels are busy slicing Indonesian workers All Vietnamese fishing vessels have GPS. Praised? By who? The Chinese? The Malaysian? Who in their right mind praise such an action?

What torture?! BTW if it's was me (or my people) we most likely bring sufficient size reticulated python to swallow the person whole (less paperwork that way)

People that come up late talk the biggest https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-indonesia-police-put-snake-on-west-papua-boy

"Indonesian police who used a large snake to terrorise a handcuffed boy is reflective of “a widespread pattern of violence” against indigenous West Papuans, a United Nations panel of experts has said, calling for investigations into numerous cases of violence, unlawful arrest and mistreatment."

But I guess the concept of human right is brand new in Indonesia so you guys think joke like letting a python swallowing people is funny...

Care to provide any hard evidence other than hearsay or baseless acquisition that not only has no ground in reality but also doesn't make any sense whatsoever?

Hey, I get what I can from the Internet You want hard evidence include pictures and clips? Go to backyards. You grandfather might have kept some skulls in the warehouse. I could not post thing like that as It violates the rules. In any case, here are some research material, I highly doubt everything all the experts claim is wrong

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26732062_Genocide_in_Indonesia_1965-1966
https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=249QDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=vi#v=onepage&q&f=false

A yet here you are

A meaningless sentence come from a clueless Indonesian. This is the Pakistan Defence Forum. This thread is called Vietnam Defence Forum. Have you see any thing that say "Indonesia" in here? Oh wait, there are: INDONESIAN TROLLS.

How about you side shoot first, and well see how that will end.

Sadly, it was your side that you shoot first. To attempt to change history seem lame

They are commie, they still waiting for someone to "fairly sharing their wealth" which include mirror in it.

Vietnam has a total population of 91.70 million, 8.4% of the population lived below the international poverty line (around 7 million). Indonesia has a population of 261 million; of those, 28 million citizens live below the poverty line, approximately 10 percent of the population.

Vietnam GDP sure fall behind Indonesia but I guess more Vietnamese know more about "wealth" than Indonesian.

And the person who tell the tell able to live through to tell the story?! Do you see the ridiculousness of that claim alone? If you still don't get it then I highly suggest you go to firing range and try to shoot some Ma Deuce against wooden plank or better a concrete block and see yourself the result.

Penetration power is nothing if you could not hit crap. The fisherman claim that it was a short burst, not an entire ammo box. But I guess that make you Indonesian come up with more bullshit like "We don't intentionally hit your boat with 12.7mm to kill, just want to scare lol"

Commies always commies, just like the GI's said during Nam War a good commies is a dead commies. Period.

And the country that send those GI recently picked the communist Vietnam to host summit between itself and another nuclear-armed country. Guess that mean US and Vietnam could walk over the past. American troops used to say in the Pacific Theater: "The only good Jap is a Jap who's been dead six months". Nowadays, say that sentence in Japan and people would sue you to death for it.

Indonesia nowadays? Still the same kind of regime 50 years ago that play the "communist card" to win vote and kill minority ethic in Papua and Aceh. How about Indonesia let people in those regions take a vote about their independence then we would talk about "democracy"? Oh wait you can't. Not when rebel cut people throat and the military unleash live ammunition on peaceful demonstrators.

 

[trishna_amṛta]

People that come up late talk the biggest https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-indonesia-police-put-snake-on-west-papua-boy

"Indonesian police who used a large snake to terrorise a handcuffed boy is reflective of “a widespread pattern of violence” against indigenous West Papuans, a United Nations panel of experts has said, calling for investigations into numerous cases of violence, unlawful arrest and mistreatment."

But I guess the concept of human right is brand new in Indonesia so you guys think joke like letting a python swallowing people is funny...

Again what torture..?!

I wasn't joking about letting reticulated python swallow a guy, in fact I even knew certain place in Borneo where there is still a giant serpent make her nest (most likely living fossil)

Hey, I get what I can from the Internet You want hard evidence include pictures and clips? Go to backyards. You grandfather might have kept some skulls in the warehouse. I could not post thing like that as It violates the rules. In any case, here are some research material, I highly doubt everything all the experts claim is wrong

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26732062_Genocide_in_Indonesia_1965-1966
https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=249QDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=vi#v=onepage&q&f=false

Again your quoting stuff from FAKE NEWS and medias that has no reputation of integrity whatsoever and from ... is that even Google search query? Your knowledge came from Google search and FAKE NEWS medias?

Sadly, it was your side that you shoot first. To attempt to change history seem lame

As I had stated before how about your side shoot first and we going to see what that would lead. BTW I really looking forward if I can meet people like you somewhere out on the sea with you guys bring whatever rifle (or any weapon) that suit you and so do I. There we will see who is the straighter shooter.

Vietnam has a total population of 91.70 million, 8.4% of the population lived below the international poverty line (around 7 million). Indonesia has a population of 261 million; of those, 28 million citizens live below the poverty line, approximately 10 percent of the population.

Vietnam GDP sure fall behind Indonesia but I guess more Vietnamese know more about "wealth" than Indonesian.

You mean the wealth that was gain from "fair distribution of someone else wealth" right ?
BTW do you even know how much things cost in Indonesia? You keep quoting shits that you don't even understand

Penetration power is nothing if you could not hit crap. The fisherman claim that it was a short burst, not an entire ammo box. But I guess that make you Indonesian come up with more bullshit like "We don't intentionally hit your boat with 12.7mm to kill, just want to scare lol"

Clearly you had shown again that you don't have any understanding whatsoever in fundamental of firearm or how "hot-pursuit" is regulate by international convention. Just curious how many Google search you made just to understand what I was referring to?!

Indonesia nowadays? Still the same kind of regime 50 years ago that play the "communist card" to win vote and kill minority ethic in Papua and Aceh.

How about basing your argument from something that is real instead of something that doesn't exist or not happening?

How about Indonesia let people in those regions take a vote about their independence then we would talk about "democracy"? Oh wait you can't. Not when rebel cut people throat and the military unleash live ammunition on peaceful demonstrators.

And AGAIN you keep stating baseless accusation without hard evidence what so ever. How many Google search query you made just to cranking all those statements of yours?

BTW If you Vietnamese posters are so annoyed or whatever because we Indonesian poster bring this subject up. Then why don't you just report us to the mod of the forum instead huh?
Personally I don't give any shit if I will be banned from this kind of forum, anyway I'm not the one whose posting something from dubious source.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Fun fact: Information from people that use snake to torture suspects seem skeptical at best Most of the ships that Indonesia captured come from Vietnam mean Vietnam government is at fault? Why don't you think Indonesia keep invading traditional fishing grounds of Vietnam fisherman? Once again, it come down to who you believe. Feel free to trust your point of view but that won't stand tall in international stage.



You and I have different ideas about who is the thief and who is the victim



But hey, we did not got fked that frequently compared to Indonesia these kinds of days, right? 2018 Lombok earthquake, 2018 Sulawesi earthquake and tsunami, 2018 Sunda Strait tsunami, 2019 South Sulawesi floods,... Indonesian died left and right all over the place. Gosh and your military still have times and resources to shoot empty fishing boats. The average Indonesian must have felt happy about that. You sure God don't want to tear Indonesia a new one as punishment for acting like ones without brain?



And you have gone full retard with those unintelligible screams. Did you smash your keyboard while typing that sentence? Let me enlighten you with some information about about Indonesian and their "communist hunts". I will try to use simple words so one with reduced intelligence like you could understand.

"With very few exceptions, the killings were not spontaneous but carried out with a high degree of organization. Most of the victims were also detainees of the Indonesian Army, making the killings summary executions. The killings were done 'face to face' as in Rwanda or Cambodia, unlike the mechanical methods of killing used by Nazi Germany. The methods of non-mechanised violence and killing included shooting, dismembering alive, stabbing, disembowelling, castration, impaling, strangling and beheading with Japanese-style samurai swords."

"The targeting of ethnic Chinese played an important role in the killings in Sumatra and Kalimantan, which have been called genocide. Charles A. Coppel is sharply critical of this characterisation, in which he sees a western media and academics unwilling to face the consequences of an anti-communist agenda that they endorsed, instead scapegoating Indonesian racism and indulging in extravagant and false claims of hundreds of thousands or millions of Chinese killed"

"Those arrested included leading politicians, artists and writers such as Pramoedya Ananta Toer, and peasants and soldiers. Those incarcerated in the vast network of prisons and concentration camps faced "extraordinarily inhumane conditions." Many did not survive this first period of detention, dying from malnutrition and beatings"

Well.... I guess everything fit the doctrine of Indonesian on human right? Let's see how Indonesian are doing nowadays.

"Over the two decades since Indonesia’s 1998 reforms (Reformasi) began, successive governments of Indonesia have pledged to end human rights violations by security forces. However, Amnesty International has continued to receive allegations of unlawful killings by security forces in the provinces of Papua and West Papua. These killings occur mainly in the context of unnecessary or excessive use of force during mass protests, during law enforcement operations or due to misconduct by individual officials"

"Speaking during a session of the UN Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva, Vanuatu's justice minister Ronald Warsal requested the UNHRC investigate "the grave situation in West Papua." Minister Warsal said the Indonesian Government had repeatedly failed to stop "killings and arrests of Papuans; extrajudicial executions of activists; the arrests, beatings and fatal shootings of peaceful demonstrators, including high school students; and reports of persistent violence against Papuan women."

"Despite the alarmingly high death toll, Indonesian authorities have almost completely failed to hold perpetrators to account. None of them have been tried and convicted in an independent court of law, with only a handful of cases resulting in disciplinary sanctions or trials in military tribunals."

Can I have a round of applaud for the excellent service of the Indonesian military and their conduct in the 21st century please Oh wait, they are acting like the infamous SS of Nazi Germany. Man you guys put the "terror VC" to shame with what you guys are doing in Papua and Aceh. Perhaps if you dare to raise your objection against the government in Indonesia, you are automatically a communist.

Words alone don't convince you about the brutality of Indonesian military? How about we share with each other some secret clips and pictures from Papua and Aceh? Man I bet we are going to learn how macho Indonesian troops are when they use military force against unarmed protesters and law enforcement forces from other countries.

Fun facts: the indonesian ministry of fishery always have detailed informations of their accounts accessible to the publics & they have regular press briefing. What does the vietnam government have for transparency & accountability?

Do point it out to me when is the last time our fishermen have to be escorted by government gunboats when we're stealing other people's fish. Also there's no fish in vietnam. Not anymore. Not after you guys overfished & polluted your sea & the scs is controlled by china. Why do you think there's so many of you guys are over here stealing other people's fishes & almost none from ours. You even stole from palau & papua new guinea. Can you explain that?

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2015/06/15/palau-illegal-fishing

http://www.pireport.org/articles/20...ned-fishing-illegally-papua-new-guinea-waters

 

[Ambalat]

Sure, have fun with shooting up boat while rebels are busy slicing Indonesian workers All Vietnamese fishing vessels have GPS. Praised? By who? The Chinese? The Malaysian? Who in their right mind praise such an action?

So they all have GPS and still intruding someone else backyards, are they all broken? made in Vietnam or they just bought them from AliExpress? Praised by who? mmm is Google banned in Vietnam? if not then just google for "Susi Pudjiastuti illegal fishing" you'll get your answer.

talking about the traditional fishing ground... You accept UNCLOS but want a traditional fishing ground shits, what a joke . Please don't blame the Chinese if they're also doing their fishing activities inside/within the SCS, it's their rights and your rights. I'm more than happy with them, but please don't even come close to our seas, coz we're also... more than happy to send them to the bottom of the ocean.

 

[Aqsuperman]

Again what torture..?!

I wasn't joking about letting reticulated python swallow a guy, in fact I even knew certain place in Borneo where there is still a giant serpent make her nest (most likely living fossil)

You have hard time understanding words or what? Your polices use snake to force information out of a suspects. That is not torture? You guys are filming an episode on Animal Planet with that guy?

Again your quoting stuff from FAKE NEWS and medias that has no reputation of integrity whatsoever and from ... is that even Google search query? Your knowledge came from Google search and FAKE NEWS medias?

Screaming fake new won't hep with your case. I could quote you actual books but sadly, copyright issues force me to use a link from google book. Both links complied information from scholars and witness, what do you want more? A time machine that you back to that particular period? I give a link, you scream fake new. I give another link, you scream fake new. But hey, there are tons of book out there that cover the genocide, acting in denial make Indonesian look weak and pitiful.

As I had stated before how about your side shoot first and we going to see what that would lead. BTW I really looking forward if I can meet people like you somewhere out on the sea with you guys bring whatever rifle (or any weapon) that suit you and so do I. There we will see who is the straighter shooter

Once again, this is not a contest of gut and marksmanship. This is a issue about interactions between law enforcement force on the sea. You seem eager to shoot others? How about use your brain for once to take care of the rebels that keep slicing the throat of your countryman?

You mean the wealth that was gain from "fair distribution of someone else wealth" right ?
BTW do you even know how much things cost in Indonesia? You keep quoting shits that you don't even understand

Vietnam (and China) switch to the market economy for like 20 years already. You must be living under a hole to not notice that. The number I quote are taken from World Bank, the international poverty line stay the same no mater what country (1 dollar/day). As far as i see, more Vietnamese could afford mirror than Indonesian. Period.

Clearly you had shown again that you don't have any understanding whatsoever in fundamental of firearm or how "hot-pursuit" is regulate by international convention. Just curious how many Google search you made just to understand what I was referring to?!

Actually, I am serving as a part-time militia after graduating from university. I know how firearms wok and guess what: If you could not aim, you could not hit. You think of the M2 Browning as a fcking mortar or what? Hot pursuit? Nah, it's just the average Indonesian acting like a dick.

How about basing your argument from something that is real instead of something that doesn't exist or not happening?

Amnesty International said it exist. Freedom House said it exist. United Nation said it exist. The Guardian said it exist. New York Time said it exist. Only your brain seem not to exist

And AGAIN you keep stating baseless accusation without hard evidence what so ever. How many Google search query you made just to cranking all those statements of yours?

BTW If you Vietnamese posters are so annoyed or whatever because we Indonesian poster bring this subject up. Then why don't you just report us to the mod of the forum instead huh?
Personally I don't give any shit if I will be banned from this kind of forum, anyway I'm not the one whose posting something from dubious source.

Google is a good way to search for information if you could filter out credible sources. But if you are a diehard nationalist or outright ignorant fool, everything that say against your belief would be considered fake news. It's impossible to argue against that kind of mind.

Annoyed? Yeah, I'm fcking annoyed that you Indonesian coming here and crash our thread but report you to the mod? Then what? A simple ban? That is NOWHERE near what I want. I want these pages to show Vietnamese and other members the hypocrisy and the aggressiveness of Indonesians. Damn, to think that I donated a part of my salary back to Indonesia as relief aid back in the 2018 Sulawesi tsunami, now I feel kind of stupid. Should give those money to the rebels and add more oil to the flame.

Fun facts: the indonesian ministry of fishery always have detailed informations of their accounts accessible to the publics & they have regular press briefing. What does the vietnam government have for transparency & accountability?

Do point it out to me when is the last time our fishermen have to be escorted by government gunboats when we're stealing other people's fish. Also there's no fish in vietnam. Not anymore. Not after you guys overfished & polluted your sea & the scs is controlled by china. Why do you think there's so many of you guys are over here stealing other people's fishes & almost none from ours. You even stole from palau & papua new guinea. Can you explain that?

Detailed information? Hah, that definitely crack me up. Again, you keep insisting that "I am right and you are wrong". We have fcking Ministry Of Fisheries control that release report every year and guess what, you guys are among the parties we claim to be extremely hostile. No fish in Vietnam? So you are an expert in marine biology now? The degree you have must come from from a crappy university

https://vov.vn/kinh-te/ngu-dan-phu-yen-don-loc-bien-lai-ca-tram-trieu-mot-chuyen-tau-873565.vov

That is sure a big lack of fish for a small no-name market in Central Vietnam.

So they all have GPS and still intruding someone else backyards, are they all broken? made in Vietnam or they just bought them from AliExpress? Praised by who? mmm is Google banned in Vietnam? if not then just google for "Susi Pudjiastuti illegal fishing" you'll get your answer.

talking about the traditional fishing ground... You accept UNCLOS but want a traditional fishing ground shits, what a joke . Please don't blame the Chinese if they're also doing their fishing activities inside/within the SCS, it's their rights and your rights. I'm more than happy with them, but please don't even come close to our seas, coz we're also... more than happy to send them to the bottom of the ocean.

Oh right. Praised as in "A little bit of a nut case"? You Indonesian sure have quite a weird to classify "praises". "is Google banned in Vietnam?" Your friend scream at me for using Google and still you come up with that question. You sure you Indonesian have good eyes there?

Sure, we will come and go as we please Today, Indonesian open fire on a boat from Vietnam Fisheries Control. Tomorrow, Vietnam Fisheries Control nap an Indonesian officer and send him to Davy Jones' Locker

"Rifky Effendi Hardijanto, secretary general of Indonesia's Fisheries Ministry, denied reports that an Indonesian officer on board the sunken ship had been taken hostage by the Vietnamese coast guard. He said the officer had been rescued by the Vietnamese coast guard." Old new from the old days.