Vietnam Defence Forum

[Aqsuperman]

Great new, boys and girls. The Ministry of Foreign Affair has confirmed what many other have been circulating: Vietnam will recieve the Indian BraMos anti-ship missile. The speakman of the Ministry, Le Thi Thu Hang, has confirmed that Vietnam will purchase the missile and its only a justify action due to "security concerns" and its the right of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to defend herself.

 

[AViet]

As much as we would like to deny china of its dominance in the area, fact is, they are the most powerful military in Vietnam's neck of the wood. Just giving credit where credit is due.

The quality of their military, on the other hand, from the men to their most sophisticated stealth planes are absolute garbage. Its under powered, cant maneuver for shit, inexperienced pilot, ineffective arms, just crap to simply put. America would wipe the floor with chinese weapons of war in a conventional war. Russia is the only match for America.

With that said, the fact that china can produce a stealth plane is quite an accomplishment.

With Chinese weapons, we defeated the US. And now the US army use Chinese equipment as well.

Regarding the quality of their army, look back at Korea war in 1953. Chinese army together with nearly exhausted North Korean, easily wiped out the coalition of the US and their puppets, although at that time, China was so weak and the US was so strong.

My father and my brother in law both attended the border war with China (my father in 1979 and my brother in law in later years). No one underestimated them. You can read similar stories from first hand experienced persons who fought the war in 1979 from youtube.com. No one underestimated the Chinese army, although most show their deep hatred.

Talking about the war, from South Vietnamese former soldiers, whether about North Vietnamese or Chinese armies, are so funny and naive. I read a lot from vnthuquan.net. No wonder why South Vietnamese government and army was so weak. You are always living in delusion, and like to continue to live like that, just like the Indian.

 

[Viet]

With an eye on China, US-Vietnam float closer together
Hanoi's willingness to host an American aircraft carrier signals stronger future cooperation in the South China Sea and a possible shift in the area's strategic balance

By HELEN CLARK
AUGUST 16, 2017 6:07 PM (UTC+8)

A Sea Hawk helicopter prepares to land on the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson in the Philippine Sea. Photo: US Navy handout via Reuters


In a sign of enhanced strategic ties, the United States will send an aircraft carrier to Vietnam, a naval visit that will herald deeper and stronger bilateral cooperation in the South China Sea vis-à-vis China.The announcement came earlier this month when Vietnamese Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich met his American counterpart General Jim Mattis in Washington on August 8. When the American warship docks in Vietnam next year, it will represent the first such US visit since the end of the Vietnam War over four decades ago.

A Pentagon statement on Lich’s red carpet visit to Washington said strong defense relationship “promotes regional and global security” and was based broadly on common interests in “freedom of navigation in the South China Sea”, “respect for international law” and “recognition of national sovereignty.”

The announcement came as Vietnam strives to diversify its defense relations with an eye on China’s island-building and militarization of nearby sea features. In recent months Vietnam has deepened its defense cooperation with India and Japan, both strong US regional allies.

The US and Vietnam are not yet formal strategic partners. The possible emerging quadrilateral all share the values outlined in the US Pentagon statement and a rising suspicion of China’s intentions in the maritime area.

US Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (L) and Vietnamese Defense Minister Gen. Ngo Xuan Lich (R) listen to national anthems during an honor cordon at the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, August 8, 2017. Photo: Reuters/Kevin Lamarque


While Vietnam maintains strong strategic ties with neighboring China, part and parcel of its staunchly independent foreign policy, the two sides have jousted more than cooperated in recent months.

That was seen most clearly in China’s strong call on Vietnam to stop energy exploration in contested waters, with some reports claiming Beijing even threatened the use of force if the Spanish energy company, Repsol, it commissioned to conduct the offshore activities in a contested block area did not immediately halt and withdraw. Repsol left the area earlier this week.

Some analysts believe the rising disputes are driving a recalibration of Hanoi’s ‘more friends and fewer enemies’ independent foreign policy towards friendlier US relations. Bilateral ties grew steadily under the previous Barack Obama administration, despite Obama’s priority on human rights promotion, a perennial sticking point in relations.

The Donald Trump administration has given special emphasis to Vietnamese ties, witnessed in Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc’s visit to the White House in May, the only Southeast Asian leader to be received at the West Wing since Trump’s inauguration in January.

US President Donald Trump welcomes Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Xuan Phuc at the West Wing Portico (North Lawn) of the White House on May 31, 2017. Photo: Cheriss May


A comprehensive partnership, entered in July 2013, sets out multiple areas of cooperation, including an agreement allowed the US to open its first foreign university on Vietnamese soil (which by local law must teach Marxism-Leninism.) The partnership, touted at the time as a “dramatic transformation” of relations, also includes provisions for “joint maritime capacity building.”

Defense cooperation was hampered previously by a decades-old lethal arms embargo that was only lifted in May last year. The US aircraft carrier visit next year would not have been possible with the embargo in place. Where the US carrier will dock in Vietnam is not yet known, but to send a strong signal to China the obvious spot would be Cam Ranh Bay, a deep water strategic port that faces out onto the South China Sea.

The port already hosts different foreign navies, but the military side of the facility has been off limits to all expect Russia, a Cold War ally and major arms supplier. Greater US access to the facility, particularly in light of losing an earlier envisaged foothold on the Philippine island of Palawan, would provide an immediate strategic advantage against China.

The move towards more US cooperation comes as Vietnam appears to lose a measure of faith in the efficacy of rules-based multilateral organizations to check China’s sea advances. This month’s meeting of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean) foreign ministers in Manila was a case in point.

Vietnamese Honor guards raise an Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) flag at a ceremony to mark the 50th anniversary of the regional grouping at Vietnam’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Hanoi August 8, 2017. Photo: Reuters/Kham


The consensus-based grouping shied from making any joint statement that condemned or even mentioned China’s fast rising militarization of the South China Sea. Vietnam, which previously joined with the Philippines to raise such complaints, now finds itself a lone critical voice as Filipino President Rodrigo Duterte opts to engage rather than confront Beijing.

With rising tensions, China and Vietnam hastily cancelled a planned meeting on the summit’s sidelines, though Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi said the meeting had already been held. Still, a China Daily editorial attacked Vietnam’s alleged “hypocrisy” and said its “attempt to sow seeds of discord does a disservice to itself, the other members and the region.”

It’s not clear yet, however, that stronger maritime cooperation with the US will extend beyond freedom of navigation issues. Beijing’s call on Hanoi to stop a foreign company’s exploration activities represented a significant change in tactic from previously threatening to suspend companies’ operations in China to directly leaning on Vietnam for giving the concession.

Apart from Repsol, Vietnam also recently extended Indian state oil company ONGC Videsh’s drilling license by two years in a contested South China Sea area, another move that apparently annoyed China. It is not clear how New Delhi, which has recently sold missiles to Vietnam, would respond if China raised similar hackles to ONGC’s presence in the area.

A Vietnamese naval soldier stands quard at Thuyen Chai island in the Spratly archipelago. Photo: Reuters/Quang Le


A similar question surrounds the US’ substantial offshore energy interests in Vietnam. US oil and gas giant Exxonmobil and Vietnamese state energy firm PetroVietnam signed a US$10 billion agreement to develop the so-called Blue Whale gas field off the country’s central coast in the South China Sea.

The joint venture, Vietnam’s largest gas project, aims to produce gas for power plants by 2023, an important diversification of its current reliance on coal and hydro-power for energy security amid fast-growing demand. PetroVietnam said at the project’s announcement event that it would contribute US$20 billion to state coffers, without giving a time frame.

Vietnam’s willingness to host a US aircraft carrier, a potent symbol of American deterrence, was no doubt influenced by these varied strategic interests. And with Trump set to visit Vietnam in November for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit, the second leader-level meeting in six months, another big bilateral strategic announcement is possible.

http://www.atimes.com/article/eye-china-us-vietnam-float-closer/

 

[Viet]

With Chinese weapons, we defeated the US. And now the US army use Chinese equipment as well.

Regarding the quality of their army, look back at Korea war in 1953. Chinese army together with nearly exhausted North Korean, easily wiped out the coalition of the US and their puppets, although at that time, China was so weak and the US was so strong.

My father and my brother in law both attended the border war with China (my father in 1979 and my brother in law in later years). No one underestimated them. You can read similar stories from first hand experienced persons who fought the war in 1979 from youtube.com. No one underestimated the Chinese army, although most show their deep hatred.

Talking about the war, from South Vietnamese former soldiers, whether about North Vietnamese or Chinese armies, are so funny and naive. I read a lot from vnthuquan.net. No wonder why South Vietnamese government and army was so weak. You are always living in delusion, and like to continue to live like that, just like the Indian.

Neearly the entire weapons and aid delivered to North Vietnam came from USSR. the Chinese virtually delivered nothing accept rosty stuffs, the northern Vietnamese soldiers scared to use because Chinese made weapons could explode in their hands unexpectedly.

 

[sinait]

With Chinese weapons, we defeated the US. And now the US army use Chinese equipment as well.

Regarding the quality of their army, look back at Korea war in 1953. Chinese army together with nearly exhausted North Korean, easily wiped out the coalition of the US and their puppets, although at that time, China was so weak and the US was so strong.

My father and my brother in law both attended the border war with China (my father in 1979 and my brother in law in later years). No one underestimated them. You can read similar stories from first hand experienced persons who fought the war in 1979 from youtube.com. No one underestimated the Chinese army, although most show their deep hatred.

Talking about the war, from South Vietnamese former soldiers, whether about North Vietnamese or Chinese armies, are so funny and naive. I read a lot from vnthuquan.net. No wonder why South Vietnamese government and army was so weak. You are always living in delusion, and like to continue to live like that, just like the Indian.

Interesting.
Maybe you can post some translated accounts of those stories here.
Or at least 1 or 2 if you don't have time.
I know its tedious to translate when there is no direct equivalents between the languages.
.

 

[AViet]

Interesting.
Maybe you can post some translated accounts of those stories here.
Or at least 1 or 2 if you don't have time.
I know its tedious to translate when there is no direct equivalents between the languages.
.

Sorry, most are video clips. Just type "chiến tranh biên giới việt trung 1979". There may be some in English.

 

[jhungary]

Have you fired this before ?
What you mean by oversized 100mm?
I think this is the 120mm.
Common sizes are 120, 81, 60.
Quite fun firing mortars.
More fun than 155 howitzers.
Because target is not too far, we can see the bombs go off in a nice pattern.
At night, firing Ilum (as in illumination) is like having fireworks.
.

I thought of oversized because the caliber appears too big and weights more than usual on the shoulder of an infantryman. The army should mount the gun on truck that will increase mobility. 100mm is about the gun caliber of VN T54/55 tanks. Yes lots of fun and fireworks when such mortar spits granate. No I have never been in an army, never hold a gun. VN has seen so many wars in history our country shall never see any war again.

This VN military thread seems to be the only english speaking place to learn a bit about her military, history and people. That makes my motivation here to contribute.

Have you joined the army service in Singapore?

100mm mortar quite common during cold war, in western army, they were usually referred to 4.2 inch mortar. Most country did not use 120mm mortar anymore, and the one that still uses 120mm usually are vehicle mounted, infantry weapon don't generally go up that high, most platoon only carry a 81mm mortar

Mortar is fun, most crew serve weapon is fun, but we don't fire flare from mortar anymore, we uses NVG now and if you drop flare, you can see your enemy and they can see you, the only time we uses flare is when you call in spectre gunship at night and you need to smoke your own position so they don't hit it, they will come down to 150 ft, make a flare angel and spot your smoke, that will light up a whole mountain like Christmas tree.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Great new, boys and girls. The Ministry of Foreign Affair has confirmed what many other have been circulating: Vietnam will recieve the Indian BraMos anti-ship missile. The speakman of the Ministry, Le Thi Thu Hang, has confirmed that Vietnam will purchase the missile and its only a justify action due to "security concerns" and its the right of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam to defend herself.

That is land version or AShM? Also what is the range of missile? 600 km or 290 km.

BTW, for AShM version, DRDL developed SAR X-band seeker & produced/manufactured by Data Patterns.

BrahMos Land Version

BrahMos Coastal Defence

 

[Farhan Bohra]

100mm mortar quite common during cold war, in western army, they were usually referred to 4.2 inch mortar. Most country did not use 120mm mortar anymore, and the one that still uses 120mm usually are vehicle mounted, infantry weapon don't generally go up that high, most platoon only carry a 81mm mortar

US, India, China,, all use 120 mm mortars. These are mostly transported by helicopters in forward base/post.

 

[jhungary]

US, India, China,, all use 120 mm mortars. These are mostly transported by helicopters in forward base/post.

Well, I did say some country still do use 120mm mortar. US M120 is a classified as heavy weapon (the same category as a M2HB) which is only use in heavy weapon platoon at Company level. Infantry platoon have man-portable 81mm and I have no idea how India or China uses their 120mm mortar, but I do know they are going out of fashion, and even US do think about replacing them...

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Well, I did say some country still do use 120mm mortar. US M120 is a classified as heavy weapon (the same category as a M2HB) which is only use in heavy weapon platoon at Company level. Infantry platoon have man-portable 81mm and I have no idea how India or China uses their 120mm mortar, but I do know they are going out of fashion, and even US do think about replacing them...

Maybe in Europe, but indeed they are not going out of fashion in Asia.
Especially for those countries who fighting in mountains. And thats why US Army also used 120 mm mortars vigorously in Afg.

Indian Army most of the time use 120 mm mortars to target Battalion HQs.

 

[Carlosa]

That is land version or AShM? Also what is the range of missile? 600 km or 290 km.

BTW, for AShM version, DRDL developed SAR X-band seeker & produced/manufactured by Data Patterns.

BrahMos Land Version

BrahMos Coastal Defence

Most likely AShM, but there is no details yet.

 

[jhungary]

Maybe in Europe, but indeed they are not going out of fashion in Asia.
Especially for those countries who fighting in mountains. And thats why US Army also used 120 mm mortars vigorously in Afg.

Indian Army most of the time use 120 mm mortars to target Battalion HQs.

Well, most Firebase don't use 120mm mortar in Afghanistan, they started deploying m777 howitzer to take over the M120 duty, most 120 mm mortar are used as mobile shoot and scoop and either put on a trailer or in Stryker.

Personally, I don't find 120mm mortar that useful, when you compare the fire support it gave vs light or pack howitzer, but yeah, I think people will still use it because it is cheap and easy to operate, still, I think it is going out of favour and should be replaced by larger calibre howitzer and smaller but more portable mortar.

but well, that's just me.

 

[sinait]

100mm mortar quite common during cold war, in western army, they were usually referred to 4.2 inch mortar. Most country did not use 120mm mortar anymore, and the one that still uses 120mm usually are vehicle mounted, infantry weapon don't generally go up that high, most platoon only carry a 81mm mortar

Mortar is fun, most crew serve weapon is fun, but we don't fire flare from mortar anymore, we uses NVG now and if you drop flare, you can see your enemy and they can see you, the only time we uses flare is when you call in spectre gunship at night and you need to smoke your own position so they don't hit it, they will come down to 150 ft, make a flare angel and spot your smoke, that will light up a whole mountain like Christmas tree.

I think @Viet should try out military life.
The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
When I had my 1st dig in.
The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
We didn't laugh for the next few days.
Its not a joke, this really happened.
.

 

[Viet]

I think @Viet should try out military life.
The camaraderie in military life is incomparable.
When I had my 1st dig in.
The brigade commander came to inspect our battalion and was shocked that nothing was being done.
On asking what happened, we said we were waiting for the crawler to come and dig for us.
We didn't laugh for the next few days.
Its not a joke, this really happened.
.

there is a saying in VN: a good man does not join the army. Lol why should I join the army? well unless the chinese or other gangsters run amok, I will join the army for sure like other compariots. VN people tradionally dislike militarism. seriuosly speaking, if we does not possess any external threat, our army can be reduced to a minimum. VN maintains a standing army mainly because of China threat. since we annihilated other powers in the region as Champa, Khmer, Siam kingdoms they don´t play any role more in VN strategic calculus.

US, India, China,, all use 120 mm mortars. These are mostly transported by helicopters in forward base/post.

120mm is a big stuff. VN uses 100mm only I believe.

100mm is about the calibre of anti aircraft gun (KS-19) of VN people´s army deployed during the war. with a little luck, the gun was capable to shoot down B-52 bombers during the battle.