Vietnam Defence Forum

[Viet]

June 6. Test firing improved version of S-125-2TM medium range surface to air missile SAM.

 

[Carlosa]

Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China
By Siva Govindasamy

Exclusive: Vietnam eyes Western warplanes, patrol aircraft to counter China - Yahoo News

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Vietnam is in talks with European and U.S. contractors to buy fighter jets, maritime patrol planes and unarmed drones, sources said, as it looks to beef up its aerial defenses in the face of China's growing assertiveness in disputed waters.

The battle-hardened country has already taken possession of three Russian-built Kilo-attack submarines and has three more on order as part of a $2.6 billion deal agreed in 2009. Upgrading its air force would give Vietnam one of the most potent militaries in Southeast Asia.

The previously unreported aircraft discussions have involved Swedish defense contractor Saab , European consortium Eurofighter, the defense wing of Airbus Group and U.S. firms Lockheed Martin Corp and Boeing , said industry sources with direct knowledge of the talks.

Defense contractors had made multiple visits to Vietnam in recent months although no deals were imminent, said the sources, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the matter. Some of the sources characterized the talks as ongoing.

One Western defense contractor said Hanoi wanted to modernize its air force by replacing more than 100 ageing Russian MiG-21 fighters while reducing its reliance on Moscow for weapons for its roughly 480,000-strong military.

Vietnam has ordered about a dozen more Russian Sukhoi Su-30 front-line fighters to supplement a fleet of older Su-27s and Su-30s.

"We had indications they want to reduce their dependence on Russia. Their growing friendship with America and Europe will help them to do that," said the defense contractor.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter, during a visit to Vietnam on Sunday, pledged $18 million to help Hanoi buy U.S. patrol boats. But any deal with Lockheed or Boeing would likely be the most significant involving a U.S. firm since Washington started easing a long-time embargo on the sale of lethal weapons to Vietnam in October.

The Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said it had forwarded questions from Reuters about the aircraft discussions to the appropriate authorities.

Boeing said in an email it believed it had capabilities in "intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance platforms that may meet Vietnam's modernization needs". It gave no specifics.

Lockheed and Saab declined to comment. Eurofighter and Airbus did not respond to a request for comment.

CHINESE OIL RIG

While communist parties rule both Vietnam and China and annual trade has risen to nearly $60 billion, Vietnam has long been wary of China, especially over Beijing's claims to most of the South China Sea.

China's placement of an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam for more than two months last year infuriated Vietnam and underscored the coastal country's need to upgrade its maritime patrol capabilities in particular.

Vietnam's military budget is a state secret, although data collated by the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) put defense spending at $3.4 billion in 2013, more than double the amount a decade ago.

Experts say actual spending could be much higher given the hardware acquired over recent years.

Among the aircraft under discussion with Vietnam were Saab's Gripen E fourth-generation fighter jet as well as the Saab 340 or 2000 twin-engine turboprops fitted with maritime patrol and airborne early warning systems, said a source with direct knowledge of those talks.

Vietnam had held talks over the Typhoon warplane made by Eurofighter as well as the F/A-50 light fighter jointly developed by Korea Aerospace Industries <047810.KS> and Lockheed, separate sources said.

Lockheed had discussed its Sea Hercules, the maritime patrol version of its C-130 transport plane.

Meanwhile, an additional source said Boeing wanted to sell its maritime surveillance aircraft program, which involves putting state-of-the-art P-8 Poseidon plane surveillance technology, although not anti-submarine capabilities, on a business jet.

Vietnam had also looked at unarmed surveillance drones made by Western and Asian contractors.

VIETNAM WAR LEGACY

Vietnam has already started moving slowly away from Russia in recent years, buying Canadian Twin Otter amphibious planes and Airbus Defence CASA C-212 maritime patrol aircraft for its coastguard and Airbus C-295 transport planes.

Airbus Defence had been in talks to offer maritime patrol and airborne early warning systems on the C-295, a source said.

In addition, Airbus Helicopters had been in preliminary talks with the Vietnamese military.

Despite increasingly warm ties with Washington, some experts said the legacy of the Vietnam War might make Hanoi wary about buying too much U.S. weaponry, possibly giving Sweden an edge.

"There is no ideological bias (in Vietnam) with Sweden," said Tim Huxley, executive director of the International Institute of Strategic Studies in Asia.

"The Gripen E will be a cost-effective option. Saab can offer a package that includes maritime patrol and airborne early warning aircraft."

However, one U.S. source familiar with Vietnam's goals said Hanoi saw Washington as a more reliable partner should tension with China escalate.

"Vietnam is interested in building a much closer relationship with the United States, but they also don't want to anger China," said the source, who was not authorized to speak publicly.

"They're looking for a balanced, phased, or step-by-step approach.'

(Additional reporting by Ho Binh Minh and Martin Petty in HANOI, Greg Torode in HONG KONG and Andrea Shalal in WASHINGTON; Editing by Dean Yates)

 

[Viet]

Air Defence

June 6. With the help and assistance of Tetraedr (Belarus) engineers and technicians, military factory A-31 completes the upgrade of S-125-2TM Pechora medium range surface to air missile system (SAM-3). It is aimed at destroying advanced, small-size aerial attack platforms flying at low altitudes. can also be deployed against ground and water-surface targets that are visible to radar.

During the Vietnam war, the predecessor of Pechora missile (or SAM-2) was a nightmare for US B-52 Bombers.

 

[Viet]

pics from comcom

old wartime dark dress (dressed for parade)

these guys are from SpecialOps, I believe

Border Guard

Infantry with AK-47 rifle and gas mask

beautiful pictures of the new Molniya warships

 

[Viet]

posted in the facebook website of Ashton Carter, U.S. Department of Defense. Joint Vision Statement between Vietnam and US armies.

 

[Viet]

It is a possibility and can´t be ruled out. Thing has changed. There was time when such thing is unthinkable.


The Buzz
Get Ready, China: Is a U.S.-Vietnam Alliance Possible?
Helen Clark
June 6, 2015

The U.S. and Vietnam have just signed a Joint Vision Statement, but don't expect them to join forces against China. An alliance is ultimately straw-man talk, but provides a useful way to look at the U.S.-Vietnam-China triangle.

Last weekend's Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore had one main focus: the South China Sea and China's movements in it. As the U.S. has become more concerned and China has acted in ways that worry not just its neighbors and co-claimants of the Spratly and Paracel Islands, the issue has moved to the front pages of world's newspapers, and added urgency to the growing friendship between Washington and Hanoi.

The question of what sort of relationship may develop between the U.S. and Vietnam is also of growing interest because it's a compelling story about 'former foes' (the phrase is practically mandatory when talking about Vietnam and the U.S.) drawing closer.

I'm a little bemused, because I've been watching this story play out in one way or another since 2006 when I arrived in Hanoi, just before APEC and a few months before Vietnam joined the WTO as member 150. Growing ties with the U.S. and, later, territorial disputes with China, were the bread and butter of any journalist there. Whether internet cables were cut or fishermen threatened, it often meant that a small and committed group of protesters would march around the Hoan Kiem Lake on a Sunday morning in the city center, watched by police. It also meant that I, as a freelance correspondent, would be able to pay my rent.

Newspapers ran the stories on their foreign pages but they centered more on the protests and contretemps between Beijing and Hanoi than on any wider understanding of what the South China Sea meant or how it was going to change the region. Now, as China builds islands and airstrips, everyone is interested.

Another central feature of reporting from Vietnam in that period was the question of ties with the U.S. Even John McCain's presidential bid got coverage from the Vietnamese angle, with one of his former jailers saying he'd vote for the man. I ran with a story on nightclubbing kids who drank B-52 cocktails, and how it was all a sign of Vietnam's 'booming' economy (we loved that superlative), helped in large part by its 2001 trade agreement with the U.S., which McCain helped to push.

At the same time, the U.S. was always concerned with human rights, framed most often in terms of freedom of speech. This has remained a roadblock to growing ties (though if the will were there, Vietnam could release a few more dissidents as bargaining chips, and both nations could pretend to be happy, with China left unhappy) and the reason for the arms embargo on Vietnam, which John McCain would like to see lifted. Some 'non-lethals' are already for sale.

Since last year, when China moved an oil rig into Vietnam's EEZ and set off riots outside (Taiwanese) factories that killed people, speculation has grown: might an alliance between the two 'former foes' be useful, or even possible?
Defense Secretary Ashton Carter was in Hanoi days ago to sign the Joint Vision Statement on Defense Relations, which the U.S. and Vietnam hope will support expansion of military ties, particularly navigation of complex U.S. procurement rules. The statement is non-binding and outside of it being with a former enemy and nation at loggerheads with China, not particularly exciting.

But it is symbolic. Secretary Carter told a press conference that he and his counterpart Phung Quang Thanh, the Defense Minister, had discussed halting reclamation and militarization in the disputed South China Sea. Carter pledged US$18 million to help Vietnam buy some U.S. patrol boats and is also going to set up a site to train Vietnamese troops for UN peacekeeping mission. Senator John McCain wants a more robust strategy and said during his visit to Ho Chi Minh City, “We are not going to have a conflict with China but we can take certain measures which will be a disincentive to China to continue these kinds of activities”.

Communist Party General Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong is to visit the White House later this year (at Washington's invitation, though it was lobbied for by Hanoi). He visited his counterpart in Beijing in April.

Vietnam has been busy pursuing friendship with plenty of other nations too, including India, Russia, and even Australia. There is also a new Strategic Partnership with the Philippines. Hanoi continues to work within ASEAN too, despite the organization still being a bit toothless when it comes to South China Sea problems.

While China's actions are driving the two countries closer, the possibility of a U.S. alliance troubles hardline members of the Party and Politburo, thanks to worries about it being a quiet way for the U.S. to push harder for greater transparency and democracy. But to really understand the limits to U.S.-Vietnam cooperation, consider this: many in Australia agree that Australia cannot hope to stay militarily close to the US and trade well with China. Given that China is also Vietnam's largest trading partner, and that the nations share a border, hold security dialogues, and are tied through communist party links, an alliance would be a hard thing for Vietnam to manage (even ignoring its formal policy of non-alignment).

Every nation is engaged in its own hedging game between the two great powers. There are limits to how close Hanoi can move to Washington, but such moves do rattle Beijing, and may provide greater breathing room in the South China Sea, which is what this is about in the first place.

 

[Viet]

Assault Rifle

Israel made TAR-21 appears to be the standard assault rifle of Navy Corps (Hải quân)

CTAR-21 light version for Marine Corps (Hải quân đánh bộ)

 

[Viet]

Submarine warfare

June 8. Today appears an interesting article on a Vietnam defence forum, that I want to translate here. I think it isn´t a state secret, since the article is posted on a public forum. I freely copy some text parts of wiki and google, since the stuffs are a bit of technique and adding my comments.

How will Vietnam submarine force plan to escape the enemy sonar network and target their surface warships and subs in the SC Sea with missiles and torpedoes?

To detect objects on or under the surface of the water a sonar system is used. there are basically two modes: passive and active mode. passive sonar is essentially listening for the sound made by vessels, while active sonar is emitting pulses of sounds and listening for echoes. it is similar to daily situation when you speak to a wall and listen to the echo coming back (reflection). there is a certain delay in the time when you speak and when the echo arrives at your ears.

The acoustic frequencies used in sonar systems vary from very low (infrasonic) to extremely high (ultrasonic). once the sonar signals are captured, location (position) and kind of the object (due to its unique characteristics) can be determined.

According to information made to public, sonar systems on ships operating in the South China Sea are mostly of DUBV-23, DUBV-43 and combined sonar Platina MS-E. with range of 20 km.

"blind zone": if we operate our Kilo submarines in the blind zone (e.i. out of enemy sonar detection range), we are safe. However, to put our subs into the zone, this requires external scouts, that closely monitor enemy ships, especially submarine hunters. in the safe zone, our Kilo can fire anti-ship missiles 3M-54E (range 200 km supersonic) or 3M-54E1 (range 300 km subsonic), and torpedo VA-111 (range 15 km) to destroy them.

In short, one Kilo is enough, if positioned in the right place, can bring death and destruction to an entire enemy escort fleet.

 

[Viet]

...coming much faster than expected. the new patrol boats for the Coast Guard: Metal Shark.


U.S. Department of Defense contracts Jeanerette company to build patrol boats for Vietnam’s Coast Guard

Billy Gunn | bgunn@theadvocate.com
June 08, 2015

Louisiana ‘playing an outsized role’

Though they may not be fully aware of it, the 248 employees of south Louisiana boat builder Metal Shark will play a role in a geopolitical chess match between the U.S. and China in the South China Sea.

U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter in late May pledged funding to purchase Metal Shark Defiant 75 Class patrol boats for the Vietnam Coast Guard. Last year, Vietnamese sailors had one of their patrol boats rammed by a Chinese ship, and they routinely play cat-and-mouse games with the communist country.

Metal Shark Vice President Greg Lambrecht said last week the company hopes to begin building the boats in July. Lambrecht would not say what the dollar amount of the contract was or how many of the 40-knot cruising Defiant 75 boats the company would build.

A story by Reuters said the contract was for $18 million.

Once America’s enemy, Vietnam is now a U.S. ally and one of the countries with interests in claiming the many islands that dot the South China Sea.

The U.S., like Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines, has an interest in keeping an increasingly aggressive China in check, U.S. Rep. Charles Boustany said last week.

“As this region becomes more contentious, Louisiana is playing an outsized role in representing American interests and helping our friends with their security needs,” said Boustany, a Republican from Lafayette.

According to Bloomberg, the vast South China Sea is the transportation route for $5.3 trillion in cargo each year and has estimated reserves of 11 billion barrels of oil and 190 trillion cubic feet of gas.

On Wednesday, Metal Shark employees at the Jeanerette facility tended to the day’s business: bending aluminum at precise angles with a 150-ton press; cutting lines and curves in aluminum sheets with computer guidance; wiring up consoles that will be easily installed; and mixing paint to meet specifications. Every square foot of the facility was in production, and every hand at the site was busy.

Nineteen miles from the Jeanerette yard, 65 Metal Shark craftsmen built bigger boats at the company’s Franklin facility, which is next to a dock on the Charenton Drainage and Navigational Canal. The canal has access to the Gulf of Mexico.

Lambrecht said the Franklin facility will handle the Vietnam order, which is still in the contracting stage.
“We’re the first defense equipment provider to enter that market,” Lambrecht said. “It’s exciting for us. That market is one of our growth markets.”

The Gravois family started Gravois Aluminum Boats in 1986 at the Jeanerette facility, selling boats to Gulf fishermen. In 2006 the company signed its first military contract to build and deliver 90 boats, and the company took on the name Metal Shark.

Metal Shark now produces 150 to 200 boats a year, and is the preferred small patrol boat builder for the U.S. Coast Guard. It also builds for the Navy, Army, Air Force, the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries and for the state’s sheriff’s offices.

And it builds patrol boats for foreign governments and sends training teams internationally, including to Vietnam.

“It’s exciting to see a South Louisiana company like Metal Shark playing such an important role helping navies and coast guards in the South China Sea stand their ground against Chinese expansion,” said Boustany, who has visited the region.

The Metal Shark Defiant 75 Class, the vessels that will be sold to Vietnam, will be constructed at the Franklin facility, a more expansive locale that Metal Shark opened about a year ago, Lambrecht said.

 

[Viet]

June 8. Visit of General Pehin Tawih, Commander of Royal Brunei Armed Forces (RBAF) to the Army Headquarters.

June 9. Slovakia Defence Minister Martin Glavac on a visit to Vietnam. Signing memorandum of understanding MoD on defence cooperation.

 

[Viet]

rare picture: Vietnam Coast Guard personnel being trained in the US.

 

[pher]

rare picture: Vietnam Coast Guard personnel being trained in the US.
View attachment 228500

US' trained toops were piece of shit just like them, before it was south korea and south vietnam, recently afghnistan and iraq, now you little viets. awaiting for get slaughtered by PLA.

 

[Viet]

Coming soon: new antiship missile for surface warships: Vietnam made Kh-35UE
(source: Báo Đất Việt)

Improvements against the Vietnam made Kh-35E, currently installed on Molniya and Gepard warships:

- extended range: 260 km (up from 130 km)
- active radar seeker: range 50 km (up from 20 km)
- warhead: 300 kg (up from 145 kg)

Besides, as usual, the missile flies sea-skimming (10 m en route and 4 m at terminal phase), stealthy (low signatures), can be employed in fair and adverse weather conditions, storms up to 5-6, by day and night, under enemy fire and electronic countermeasures, very difficult to be intercepted. Flight mission data is inserted into the missile control system. At a certain target range, the homing head is switched on to search for, lock on and track the target. It is designed to attack vessels up to 5,000 tons.

The new to build 4 Molniya will likely carry the new missiles.

 

[Aqsuperman]

lol really ? since when your Chinese slaughter Japanese in real life ? google (oh wait , can you guys use it ? :v ) Battle of Shanghai or Second Sino-Japanese war , your Chinese got pratically wiped out , before the massive aids from Soviet and US , for every Japanese your Chinese killed there will be 30 dead Chinese , wake up from your wet dream , you cant kill Japanese planes and tanks with arrows or whatever crappy weapons you see on your damn fiction movies . Without help from other countries (mainly the Pacific front ) There will be 1000 Nanking across China and surely you guys cant do crap about it , we all have access to many sources of infomation so stop thinking that with blocked internet of your , you are the better among us , back in 1940s we were fighting French , shall we failed ( because we were "uncivilized and live on the jungle trees" then you think that France wouldnt use left over japan runway to bomb the crap outta you ?

 

[Carlosa]

Submarine warfare

June 8. Today appears an interesting article on a Vietnam defence forum, that I want to translate here. I think it isn´t a state secret, since the article is posted on a public forum. I freely copy some text parts of wiki and google, since the stuffs are a bit of technique and adding my comments.

How will Vietnam submarine force plan to escape the enemy sonar network and target their surface warships and subs in the SC Sea with missiles and torpedoes?

View attachment 228207


View attachment 228206

To detect objects on or under the surface of the water a sonar system is used. there are basically two modes: passive and active mode. passive sonar is essentially listening for the sound made by vessels, while active sonar is emitting pulses of sounds and listening for echoes. it is similar to daily situation when you speak to a wall and listen to the echo coming back (reflection). there is a certain delay in the time when you speak and when the echo arrives at your ears.

The acoustic frequencies used in sonar systems vary from very low (infrasonic) to extremely high (ultrasonic). once the sonar signals are captured, location (position) and kind of the object (due to its unique characteristics) can be determined.

According to information made to public, sonar systems on ships operating in the South China Sea are mostly of DUBV-23, DUBV-43 and combined sonar Platina MS-E. with range of 20 km.

"blind zone": if we operate our Kilo submarines in the blind zone (e.i. out of enemy sonar detection range), we are safe. However, to put our subs into the zone, this requires external scouts, that closely monitor enemy ships, especially submarine hunters. in the safe zone, our Kilo can fire anti-ship missiles 3M-54E (range 200 km supersonic) or 3M-54E1 (range 300 km subsonic), and torpedo VA-111 (range 15 km) to destroy them.

In short, one Kilo is enough, if positioned in the right place, can bring death and destruction to an entire enemy escort fleet.

View attachment 228239

View attachment 228240

Well, ASW is a bit more complex than that. A sub can actually be navigating under a ASW ship and still be undetected because sonar waves usually only reach specific layers of the water and if the sub is navigating in a layer that the sonar can't reach (which is what subs usually try to do), then it wont be detected. That's why we've seen subs surfacing undetected right next to carrier battle groups.

SUBS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO DETECT.