Vietnam: ASEAN’s New De Facto Leader?

[Leishangthem]

Indonesian KPOP concerts organizers you mean? Because rock concerts in Indonesia could easily draw 30 to 40k attendance per performance with comparable price points. Other music events could draw bigger numbers. And it is not like those KPOP arent coming at all to Indonesia since the attendance is still pretty decent at 10-15k.

Price point wise, the price of kpop concert bts also start at 60 usd in thailand. Comparable to Indonesia. But as you said, the key word here is comfortable. Apparently Indonesians are more comfortable spending 60 USD and more on some music concerts/festivals/events of other genres.

BTS Thailand Concert Tickets Sold Out, Extra Show To Be Held In Response To Demand

BTS' Love Yourself tour concert, which will be held at the Rajamangala National Stadium in Thailand, has already become sold out.

www.koreaboo.com

You don’t get the point. Bigbang, suju, snsd all had big concerts in Jakarta. It’s just that in Thailand that same tics would’ve sold at a larger volume in avg, more quicker , at a higher price, . Indonesia has population advantage, so only top boy band like bts can mobilise a huge no of fangirls to shell their money out of their comfort zone,but for bts concerts, tens of thousands of fans from China and other part of the world also flock to attend their concerts, there are some I know that booked whole vacation to accommodate bts concert .But the same can’t be applied for other top kpop act, with bts being the exception.

 

[Asteric]

You don’t get the point. Bigbang, suju, snsd all had big concerts in Jakarta. It’s just that in Thailand that same tics would’ve sold at a larger volume in avg, more quicker , at a higher price, . Indonesia has population advantage, so only top boy band like bts can mobilise a huge no of fangirls to shell their money out of their comfort zone,but for bts concerts, tens of thousands of fans from China and other part of the world also flock to attend their concerts, there are some I know that booked whole vacation to accommodate bts concert .But the same can’t be applied forever other top kpop act, with bts being the exception.

Here the scene production + stage Indonesia Local TV Award

 

[Indos]

Compared to K Pop or Heavy metal, look at local wisdom

Indonesian indeed still appreciate our own local singers, movies and others. Raisa for instant is set to make a concert in GBK (Gelora Bung Karno) stadium this year, the same stadium hosted GnR in 2018 which is double the size of biggest stadium in Thailand. Unfortunatelly the concert is delayed due to Covid 19 pandemic, particularly because of local government ban on such even this year.

The promotion

 

[NEKONEKO]

From serious discussion and now talking about K-POP. Lol. Carry on.

 

[Leishangthem]

Here the scene production + stage Indonesia Local TV Award

It’s like India inviting US popstars to perform .

 

[Asteric]

It’s like India inviting US popstars to perform .

Thats Indonesia award, not just concert. Free live on air.
You think the budget for this stage + production more cheaper than off air kpop concert?

 

[Leishangthem]

Thats Indonesia award, not just concert. Free live on air.
You think the budget for this stage + production more cheaper than off air kpop concert?

you don't get my point,you're comparing apple and oranges.

 

[mike2000 is back]

ASEAN non interference policy is Indonesia brainchild and willingness to put on hold our ego after adventurous and Punch above the weight Soekarno regime foreign policy almost bring Indonesia a total disaster. You will not see in other region, a Country with stature like Indonesia compared to their neighbour in the region willing to do humble work, being lead the rest more as mediator and initiator of economy and cultural cooperation, instead of military posturing and interference of their neighbour internal policy. From middle east with the struggle of Saudi-Turkey and Iran, South Asia India and Pakistan nasty behavior, East Asia China rising assertiveness, North America and South America USA hegemony, West Africa Nigeria with their ECOWAS and so on.

If Indonesia starting to become more aggressive and puting the air over their neighbour just like what Soekarno did in the past, i bet ASEAN will be collapse from that's day. What Indonesia did, let the rest of ASEAN being more focused to build their economy and human resource instead spent hundreds Billion US Dollar for decades as a results for become being too wary because your much larger neighbour had very large military and aggressive foreign policy.

Well, the current Geo Political situation is very different though, US itself admit their military and economy influence can't match China in the region, and with the US possibility of withdrawal from the area in case of Hot situation in against China. It Made some Indonesia policy maker being wary, afterall we are free riding from US hegemony and regional security guarantor, with the absen of US presence all Nation must change their thinking and policy.

Yes agree. However, about your last point, I'm not sure Indonesia sees China as a major threat per se. I think even Australia comes ahead in this aspect. Moreover, Indonesia has dispute in SCS with Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines and Brunei, and of course China and by extension Taiwan (they have same claim as China). So in this case it's difficult to see how Indonesia can maneuver through all this , since the issue is more complicated than one side against another. It involves so many sides, and I'm not even counting Australia which has been a traditional rival/threat to Indonesia's leadership in the region

 

[Viet]

True, one party communist state(and other one man rule dictators) has it's benefits, but also disadvantages, since it's good when things are going well, However when things go wrong it is a disaster for the whole country. Just look at former one party communist states/one man rule countries who collapsed in the past from Soviet Union to Romania to Libya etc, it had devastating impact on the country, since communist one party state regard themselves as the country itself. There is no distinction between political party and state/country. Since the communist party regards itself as the country itself and sometimes even puts itself above the country, so when that party collapses its creates a huge vacuum and leads to even more instability as different actors jostle for power amid their own greed. Same almost happened with China in the 1990 Tiananmen uprisings, the country could have gone in a totally different direction had the uprisings succeeded. So yes authoritarian dictatorial one party states have their benefits but also their flaws, and when their fall comes NOBODY USUALLY EXPECTS IT, since it's happens spontaneously and fast.

France will harshly dispute that assertion.

Indonesia has been quite passive a leader in ASEAN to be honest. Indonesia needs to be much more assertive and needs to show its leadership in a more open role than taking passive stances in most crucial issues. That's how a leader should behave, just being the biggest doesn't means you are automatically the leader, you have to earn and show it.
However, i don't think Australia will allow Indonesia to be more assertive in this role, since it wont be to Australia's interests either. So therein comes the dilemma as well.

Yes VN is ruled by one party communist.
However 95 percent of Vietnamese support capitalism. The percentage is higher than any other countries in the world per Pew survey. The vast majority of Vietnamese think only hard working brings the country forward, not by ideology.

It turns out communist Vietnam loves capitalism more than the US does

Polls show the 'American Dream' is alive in Hanoi. In America? Not so much.

www.pri.org

you don't get my point,you're comparing apple and oranges.

The article points to Vietnam progress on renewable energy, handling of pandemic and ASEAN unity. We build 6.2 GW of solar in just two years. That’s more than all solar plants of other ASEAN countries combined. We are on track to reach 7GW solar power generation this year. Not mentioned the vast capacity of wind power generation that has been built and under construction.

 

[Nike]

Yes agree. However, about your last point, I'm not sure Indonesia sees China as a major threat per se. I think even Australia comes ahead in this aspect. Moreover, Indonesia has dispute in SCS with Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines and Brunei, and of course China and by extension Taiwan (they have same claim as China). So in this case it's difficult to see how Indonesia can maneuver through all this , since the issue is more complicated than one side against another. It involves so many sides, and I'm not even counting Australia which has been a traditional rival/threat to Indonesia's leadership in the region

Though we (all of ASEAN member) see Oz as strange neighbour, a Lone Anglo Saxon country surrounded herself by many large Asiatic Countries and pull out herself from engaging their neighbour whole heartedly (not even they put commitment into their FPDA allies like Singapore and Malaysia into meaningfull engagement besides some military practices and comprehensive land rent agreement with Singapore for their practices) but people to people and cultural Contact, Oz is almost invisible for their Asian neighbour except save for some Boogart who spent holidays in Pattaya or Bali. China on other sides had more engagement and more business, cultural cooperation and Investment with their neighbour even with their bitter rival like Vietnam and Philippines.

No one here in the region actually put feeling about what Oz feeling at all, and actually we don't give a fucking mind about their invisible precense at all. As example, no one give a **** when they built up their military although they spent close to hundred Billion US Dollar for decade procurement or voicing concern against China, the feeling is more like when Canada voicing their concern about China rise. Just the same.

 

[Indos]

kPOP is one of the most baring merits to gauge the purchasing power of a nation,though it may sound ridiculous.It's one of the genre that's mostly supported by the rich folk as hobby .
Bulk order of albums and ticketing power gives ample indication of economic might of a nation.
The venues you showed don't look too big and guns & roses or celine dion's concert tickets aren't really as expensive as top kpop act's ,I mean in the league of Bigbang,bts,exo,girls generation,suju,Blackpink (as of recent) these acts' significant online fanbase comes from indonesia.
But the ticket sales is always a struggle despite the high popularity of certain kpop groups in Indonesia,in thailand tickets of most popular kpop acts sells in a blip.Only concert tickets in Japan(especially due to lottery) & SK, sell out quicker.

GBK stadium capacity in Jakarta is double the biggest stadium in Thailand and Black Pink concert in Thailand doesnt even use football stadium.

List of Southeast Asia stadiums by capacity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GnR tickets prices in Jakarta concert (held in GBK Stadium) are not too different with Black Pink and for festival (standing) it starts at 50 USD/750,000 Rupiah. It is a bit less expensive than BP concert in Bangkok since GBK stadium is a combination of football and athletic field that can accommodate huge people, thus can get much more sales.

It is better to compare Black Pink concert in Thailand with Celline Dion Concert in Jakarta since both dont use football stadium. Black Pink ticket starts at 60 USD (1900 Bath) with the highest is 240 USD (7500 Bath) compared to Celine Dion tickets in Indonesia that starts at 100 USD (1.5 million Rupiah) with the highest is 850 USD (12.5 million Rupiah). Only fools want to spend at this much for music concert, but any how people still attended.

Are you female (I ask this since you hide your gender) ?? Black Pink or any K-Pop fans in Indonesia are usually teenage until 24 years old female that dont have their own income. Better you listen to broad of variety of music. This I give you a good music from an Arab Muslim that I think has better message than K-Pop music

 

[Leishangthem]

GBK stadium capacity in Jakarta is double the biggest stadium in Thailand and Black Pink concert in Thailand doesnt even use football stadium.

List of Southeast Asia stadiums by capacity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GnR tickets prices in Jakarta concert (held in GBK Stadium) are not too different with Black Pink and for festival (standing) it starts at 50 USD/750,000 Rupiah. It is a bit less expensive than BP concert in Bangkok since GBK stadium is a combination of football and athletic field that can accommodate huge people, thus can get much more sales.

View attachment 680845

It is better to compare Black Pink concert in Thailand with Celline Dion Concert in Jakarta since both dont use football stadium. Black Pink ticket starts at 60 USD (1900 Bath) with the highest is 240 USD (7500 Bath) compared to Celine Dion tickets in Indonesia that starts at 100 USD (1.5 million Rupiah) with the highest is 850 USD (12.5 million Rupiah). Only fools want to spend at this much for music concert, but any how people still attended.

View attachment 680840
View attachment 680841

Are you female (I ask this since you hide your gender) ?? Black Pink or any K-Pop fans in Indonesia are usually teenage until 24 years old female that dont have their own income. Better you listen to broad of variety of music. This I give you a good music from an Arab Muslim that I think has better message than K-Pop music

It's apparent you don't have much knowledge about music industry,your claims are all over the place due to lack of experience.

Again why do you compare a full fleged solo concert to some music festival ,performed by many artists attended by tons of casual public under cheaper ticketing schemes? those are totally different instances....but I doubt that festival would actually sell out.

And here's the list of Asian countries that current top act ,BTS,toured(2019)

jAPAN
THAILAND
S.KOREA
TAIWAN
HONG KONG
SINGAPORE

This makes it pretty clear that Thailand is in a league of it's own in SEA, despite the fact that Indonesia has the largest fanbase of bts in asia and contributes the most in bts youtube views..

in Indonesia are usually teenage until 24 years old female that dont have their own income. Better you listen to broad of variety of music. This I give you a good music from an Arab Muslim that I think has better message than K-Pop music

Large section of kpop fans are teens in every country,but all the 24+ years old fangirls of boys bands on sns begs to differ,most of suju fans online are indonesian and 30+ years old in average.


Sorry ,I have no interest in Arab music or anything arab,I barely have any interest in kpop other than the sales aspect of it. I extensively follow music industries ,it helps to study the economy, marketing and public preferences.Personally prefer native folk and folk fusion that utilizes our indigenous native instruments.

Spoiler: x

 

[Indos]

It's apparent you don't have much knowledge about music industry,your claims are all over the place due to lack of experience.

Again why do you compare a full fleged solo concert to some music festival ,performed by many artists attended by tons of casual public under cheaper ticketing schemes? those are totally different instances....but I doubt that festival would actually sell out.

And here's the list of Asian countries that current top act ,BTS,toured(2019)

jAPAN
THAILAND
S.KOREA
TAIWAN
HONG KONG
SINGAPORE

This makes it pretty clear that Thailand is in a league of it's own in SEA, despite the fact that Indonesia has the largest fanbase of bts in asia and contributes the most in bts youtube views..

What the heck you talk dudes, what I mean festival price is a standing price, it is common in Indonesia to say it that way. We are comparing solo concert here of course, those Guns and Roses and Celine Dion concert are all solo concert and I have shown the concert with full of people there.

How do you know Indonesian contributes the most BTS youtube views ??? Do you get the statistic from Youtube ???

Indonesian has huge Internet users and number 1 and 2 for Facebook and Twitter users if I am not mistaken. If many Indonesian watch BTS and Black Pink YT channel, it doesnt necessarily say Indonesian who watch there are K-POP fan bases as Indonesian listen and watch any kind of musics.

Just use this Indonesian Youtuber (young female) who want to get money from doing many reaction about BTS and Black Pink and ended up never get more than 2000 viewers for covering that K-POP group on her YT channel, only 2 reactions get 4000 viewers.

In the other hand, when she do reaction just a week ago for Maher Zain music cover (The video that I gave to you) she got 42.000 viewers and the biggest viewer is when she did reaction about Palestinian when she get 282.000 viewers after posting a month ago. So it tells a lot what is really important in the mind of Indonesian people.

Here when she did reaction about Black Pink about 2 month ago and only get 1000 viewers.

She did reaction about Palestinian about 2 months ago and get 292.000 viewers

I know it sounds absurd to assess it through it but still better than your baseless claim

And about the top concert of BTS/Black Pink that you mentioned, they are all coming from countries where the majority of people are originated from East Asian. Understandable. Concert will come to the place where the most fans are there and the ones willing to spend money for it. And I have explained that K-POP fans in Indonesia are majority teen until 24 years old female who dont have their own income although Black Pink do have concert in Indonesia.

Indonesian solo concert for foreign singers are 99% coming from Westerners. And dont forget many people here refuse to go to music concert because music concert makes us get difficult to pray for Maghrib (6PM-7PM)

 

[Logam42]

@Leishangthem
Ok, on the wierd KPOP derail: I get where you are coming from but your data point is so narrow it is meaningless. Its like only surveying 10 people and then declaring its representative of the entire population. All your points can be true (its not) but it wouldn't matter, KPOP genre is but a small percentage of Indonesian live ticket sales, and thats before you (hilariously) hyperfocus on BTS



@Viet
I would agree quite readily that Vietnam is the brightest rising star in Asean today, though it still has a long ways to go.

If Vietnam can maintain this economic growth and political stability for another 2 decades (a generation) it would be able to challenge the 'de facto' status of Indonesia as first among equals in ASEAN. The major labour reforms law Indonesian leadership passed this month is directly caused by just how badly Vietnam is outcompeting Indonesia for FDI.

Note though that currently, even GDP per Capita Vietnam is only 70% that of Indo. Furthermore, Vietnam can punch above its weight because Indonesia is led by an inward looking president, Thailand is in political Chaos, and most other countries are focused on dealing with covid.

This window of time will pass sooner or later.

 

[Asteric]

you don't get my point,you're comparing apple and oranges.

Why your parameter always kpop? Indo music taste is diverse

How about this Japanese band world tour, in region only Indo is sold out

WORLD TOUR｜20th L'Anniversary L'Arc-en-Ciel WORLD TOUR 2012

20th L'Anniversary L'Arc-en-Ciel WORLD TOUR 2012

www.larc-en-ciel.com

Second show added due phenomenal demand!
You dont know nothing about music industry dude!

Just compare live performance kpop vs those band + production stage