Vietnam: ASEAN’s New De Facto Leader?

Leishangthem · Oct 20, 2020

Indos said:
What the heck you talk dudes, what I mean festival price is a standing price, it is common in Indonesia to say it that way. We are comparing solo concert here of course, those Guns and Roses and Celine Dion concert are all solo concert and I have shown the concert with full of people there.

How do you know Indonesian contributes the most BTS youtube views ??? Do you get the statistic from Youtube ???

Indonesian has huge Internet users and number 1 and 2 for Facebook and Twitter users if I am not mistaken. If many Indonesian watch BTS and Black Pink YT channel, it doesnt necessarily say Indonesian who watch there are K-POP fan bases as Indonesian listen and watch any kind of musics.

Just use this Indonesian Youtuber (young female) who want to get money from doing many reaction about BTS and Black Pink and ended up never get more than 2000 viewers for covering that K-POP group on her YT channel, only 2 reactions get 4000 viewers.

In the other hand, when she do reaction just a week ago for Maher Zain music cover (The video that I gave to you) she got 42.000 viewers and the biggest viewer is when she did reaction about Palestinian when she get 282.000 viewers after posting a month ago. So it tells a lot what is really important in the mind of Indonesian people.

Here when she did reaction about Black Pink about 2 month ago and only get 1000 viewers.

She did reaction about Palestinian about 2 months ago and get 292.000 viewers

I know it sounds absurd to assess it through it but still better than your baseless claim

And about the top concert of BTS/Black Pink that you mentioned, they are all coming from countries where the majority of people are originated from East Asian. Understandable. Concert will come to the place where the most fans are there and the ones willing to spend money for it. And I have explained that K-POP fans in Indonesia are majority teen until 24 years old female who dont have their own income although Black Pink do have concert in Indonesia.

Indonesian solo concert for foreign singers are 99% coming from Westerners. And dont forget many people here refuse to go to music concert because music concert makes us get difficult to pray for Maghrib (6PM-7PM)

Get real,look at average income of asean nations.Indonesia's ticketing power is only albeit better than India. In India also ,few concert organisers invites some former hotshot artist to hold some stadium concert with the hope of casual attendees making the concert profitable.

But inviting a bts, has a lot more at stake,their production is crazy expensive,and they have to be paid millions in advance to just book a show .Kpop fans in all countries are mostly younger,it's just that the higher the average purchasing power of a nation ,the more they can impact album bulks and concert tickets.

How do you know Indonesian contributes the most BTS youtube views ??? Do you get the statistic from Youtube ???

No1 in asia and no 2 overall.

Here when she did reaction about Black Pink about 2 month ago and only get 1000 viewers.

She did reaction about Palestinian about 2 months ago and get 292.000 viewers

I know it sounds absurd to assess it through it but still better than your baseless claim

It's not absurd imo,but there's a problem with such an assessment,bc Indonesians are expected to be kpop fans ,nothing new or unexpected there,people don't care anymore about these reactions,since they have just so many fans by now.

Logam42 said:
@Leishangthem
Ok, on the wierd KPOP derail: I get where you are coming from but your data point is so narrow it is meaningless. Its like only surveying 10 people and then declaring its representative of the entire population. All your points can be true (its not) but it wouldn't matter, KPOP genre is but a small percentage of Indonesian live ticket sales, and thats before you (hilariously) hyperfocus on BTS

This window of time will pass sooner or later.

Idk how can my data point be narrow,I have most of the important stats of past 10 years concert and sales data of most of top tier music artist in asia,all in back of my head by now.

Asteric said:
Why your parameter always kpop? Indo music taste is diverse

How about this Japanese band world tour, in region only Indo is sold out

https://www.larc-en-ci Second show...dont know nothing about music industry dude!

You can't seriously compare OOR to top tier kpop act's(which I'm talking about) concerts which are huge in production and ticketing price to j-rock bands.

I never said jakarta can't hold concerts,I just said their purchasing power is still lacking behind.
To me who followed stats of music industries for past 10 years ,it's glaringly obvious.
If Indonesia had the purchasing power of thailand,with its population,they would've had 2 days stadium concert for bts instead of a no show.

Logam42 · Oct 20, 2020

Leishangthem said:
Get real,look at average income of asean nations.Indonesia's ticketing power is only albeit better than India. In India also ,few concert organisers invites some former hotshot artist to hold some stadium concert with the hope of casual attendees making the concert profitable.

But inviting a bts, has a lot more at stake,their production is crazy expensive,and they have to be paid millions in advance to just book a show .Kpop fans in all countries are mostly younger,it's just that the higher the average purchasing power of a nation ,the more they can impact album bulks and concert tickets.

No1 in asia and no 2 overall.

It's not absurd imo,but there's a problem with such an assessment,bc Indonesians are expected to be kpop fans ,nothing new or unexpected there,people don't care anymore about these reactions,since they have just so many fans by now.

Idk how can my data point be narrow,I have most of the important stats of past 10 years concert and sales data of most of top tier music artist in asia,all in back of my head by now.

You can't seriously compare OOR to top tier kpop act's(which I'm talking about) concerts which are huge in production and ticketing price to j-rock bands.

I never said jakarta can't hold concerts,I just said their purchasing power is still lacking behind.
To me who followed stats of music industries for past 10 years ,it's glaringly obvious.
If Indonesia had the purchasing power of thailand,with its population,they would've had 2 days stadium concert for bts instead of a no show.

And your point is? Indonesia ticketing power is lower than thailand so....? Seriously, what is the point?

Like, why use something as obscure as ticketing power? BTS? Didn't this derail start off talking about soft power?

Look at GDP per capita, the figures back up your claim. No need to get into ticketing power based on BTS of all things. I'm just here being confused about why you'd derail the thread to talk about such a non-related and ultimately non-relevant pet theory that... is not even economically or statistically sound?

How the hell does the BTS fanbase in Indo signify national ticketing power? You do realize it is a niche of a niche? That Indo BTS fanbase is from a small, non-representative portion of our population?

Leishangthem · Oct 20, 2020

Logam42 said:
And your point is? Indonesia ticketing power is lower than thailand so....? Seriously, what is the point?

Like, why use something as obscure as ticketing power? BTS? Didn't this derail start off talking about soft power?

Look at GDP per capita, the figures back up your claim. No need to get into ticketing power based on BTS of all things. I'm just here being confused about why you'd derail the thread to talk about such a non-related and ultimately non-relevant pet theory that... is not even economically or statistically sound?

How the hell does the BTS fanbase in Indo signify national ticketing power? You do realize it is a niche of a niche? That Indo BTS fanbase is from a small, non-representative portion of our population?

go read again,I just replied to quotes. How everything I said doesn't fits exactly in the economic spectrum of a nation?concerts are an expensive recreational activity,the more stable & sound a population is economically,the more civilians are likely to spend on such activities under normal conditions; it bares open the actual status of the economic condition for average civilians.

Logam42 · Oct 20, 2020

Leishangthem said:
go read again,I just replied to quotes. How everything I said doesn't fits exactly in the economic spectrum of a nation?concerts are an expensive recreational activity,the more stable & sound a population is economical,the more civilians are likely to spend on such activities under normal conditions; it bares open the actual status of the economic condition for average civilians.

Ah, I see. Replying got out of hand. Thanks for clarifying

At the same time, you fail to take many other factors such as:

Preference -> How likely are people willing to attend concerts in Jakarta even if they can afford it
Permits, Partners, Logistics & Security -> There have been concerts cancelled in Indonesia due to failure to acquire these or fear of disruption

Yes. Concerts are expensive... And a lot of BTS youtube views are from Indonesia... but that doesn't automatically mean that Indonesia has low ticketing power. It could be caused due to the grand majority of BTS fans in Indonesia not having their own income (Still in secondary school). Picking which nations get a visit in a Tour is partially determined by economic buying power, but there are many, many other considerations that go into it as well.

…which goes back to why BTS only? This causes a very narrow sample size. For example, why not Super Junior? Why not BLACKPINK? It goes back to this:

" Its like only surveying 10 people and then declaring it is representative of the entire population"

Indos · Oct 20, 2020

Leishangthem said:
Get real,look at average income of asean nations.Indonesia's ticketing power is only albeit better than India. In India also ,few concert organisers invites some former hotshot artist to hold some stadium concert with the hope of casual attendees making the concert profitable.

But inviting a bts, has a lot more at stake,their production is crazy expensive,and they have to be paid millions in advance to just book a show .Kpop fans in all countries are mostly younger,it's just that the higher the average purchasing power of a nation ,the more they can impact album bulks and concert tickets.

No1 in asia and no 2 overall.

It's not absurd imo,but there's a problem with such an assessment,bc Indonesians are expected to be kpop fans ,nothing new or unexpected there,people don't care anymore about these reactions,since they have just so many fans by now.

The data is quite understandable since Indonesia is among the nation with the highest internet users. China is the first but there is fire wall that hinder much of its population to access Youtube and India I believe dont like this East Asian looking singer since they have Aryan looking celebrities and singers. So there are left USA and Indonesian where these two groups are also open in term of listening to many kind of music and the female there are also quite open minded in term of their preference on the male.

Any way I just watch BTS and I think they are not that special, maybe the popularity is due to one of their personnel that could be considered as really handsome by many ladies, including Indonesian ladies. In term of musicality, I believe Indonesian bands are much better.

Most popular band in Indonesia is Noah, and these are really musician who makes their own songs. Just compare the musicality of their latest song, Noah gets 29 million viewers from their latest song after 1 year and BTS gets 510 million viewers just after 2 months for their latest song

BTS latest song

Noah latest song

Most famous female singer in Indonesia is Raisa and her latest song only get 4 million viewers after about a year but Black Pink can get around 500 million viewers from one of their latest songs for just about 3 months

Black Pink (one of their latest song)

Latest Raisa song

You guys can see the difference that I think show Indonesian music is better in quality than BTS and Black Pink music.

But in order to be popular, a deep meaning song and beautiful melody with good musicality are not preferred by larger world population, mostly only prefer easy listening and dance and this is why Indonesian music producer that try to get more money from worldwide listener also try to follow the trend and create this kind of music. This is just one of the example

This Indonesia song get about 614 million viewers after about 2 years with easy listening melody but less musicality quality.

Nike · Oct 20, 2020

Indos said:
The data is quite understandable since Indonesia is among the nation with the highest internet users. China is the first but there is fire wall that hinder much of its population to access Youtube and India I believe dont like this East Asian looking singer since they have Aryan looking celebrities and singers. So there are left USA and Indonesian where these two groups are also open in term of listening to many kind of music and the female there are also quite open minded in term of their preference on the male.

View attachment 680965

Any way I just watch BTS and I think they are not that special, maybe the popularity is due to one of their personnel that could be considered as really handsome by many ladies, including Indonesian ladies. In term of musicality, I believe Indonesian bands are much better.

Most popular band in Indonesia is Noah, and these are really musician who makes their own songs. Just compare the musicality of their latest song, Noah gets 29 million viewers from their latest song after 1 year and BTS gets 510 million viewers just after 2 months for their latest song

BTS latest song

Noah latest song

Most famous female singer in Indonesia is Raisa and her latest song only get 4 million viewers after about a year but Black Pink can get around 500 million viewers from one of their latest songs for just about 3 months

Black Pink (one of their latest song)

Latest Raisa song

You guys can see the difference that I think show Indonesian music is better in quality than BTS and Black Pink music.

But in order to be popular, a deep meaning song and beautiful melody with good musicality are not preferred by larger world population, mostly only prefer easy listening and dance and this is why Indonesian music producer that try to get more money from worldwide listener also try to follow the trend and create this kind of music. This is just one of the example

This Indonesia song get about 614 million viewers after about 2 years with easy listening melody but less musicality quality.

Indonesia music industry is very much modelled after the US, there is many Indonesian singer and composer learn about modern music history and composition from US, when the US got local folk and southern style song Indonesia got comparable style in the like of Dangdut and Javanese style music. And pop rock culture very much dominated Indonesia music style for decades. Indonesia market largely actually doesn't give much attention toward cliche and very Niche K Pop style music and dance. And i bet in the next two decades people still singing and knowing Dewa old song like Kangen or Risalah Hati but not many to remember what is BTS and their songs.

8888888888888 · Oct 20, 2020

Vietnam is not even in the G20.

Leishangthem · Oct 20, 2020

Indos said:
The data is quite understandable since Indonesia is among the nation with the highest internet users. China is the first but there is fire wall that hinder much of its population to access Youtube and India I believe dont like this East Asian looking singer since they have Aryan looking celebrities and singers. So there are left USA and Indonesian where these two groups are also open in term of listening to many kind of music and the female there are also quite open minded in term of their preference on the male.

View attachment 680965

Any way I just watch BTS and I think they are not that special, maybe the popularity is due to one of their personnel that could be considered as really handsome by many ladies, including Indonesian ladies. In term of musicality, I believe Indonesian bands are much better.

Most popular band in Indonesia is Noah, and these are really musician who makes their own songs. Just compare the musicality of their latest song, Noah gets 29 million viewers from their latest song after 1 year and BTS gets 510 million viewers just after 2 months for their latest song

BTS latest song

Noah latest song

Most famous female singer in Indonesia is Raisa and her latest song only get 4 million viewers after about a year but Black Pink can get around 500 million viewers from one of their latest songs for just about 3 months

Black Pink (one of their latest song)

Latest Raisa song

You guys can see the difference that I think show Indonesian music is better in quality than BTS and Black Pink music.

But in order to be popular, a deep meaning song and beautiful melody with good musicality are not preferred by larger world population, mostly only prefer easy listening and dance and this is why Indonesian music producer that try to get more money from worldwide listener also try to follow the trend and create this kind of music. This is just one of the example

This Indonesia song get about 614 million viewers after about 2 years with easy listening melody but less musicality quality.

Your assertion that,bts gets such a huge amount of views from indonesia only because ID has a large internet user base is quite off,not every other kpop act gets such a huge no of views from Indonesia,not even close. And US is also not one of the main yt views source of most kpop acts.
One have to be denial to accredit the population for all that,when BTS sell out stadiums on scale of taylor swift in US ,and topped hot 100 for many weeks..

India I believe dont like this East Asian looking singer since they have Aryan looking celebrities and singers. So there are left USA and Indonesian where these two groups are also open in term of listening to many kind of music and the female there are also quite open minded in term of their preference on the male.

That's not how human psychology works,human taste are more similar than you'd think. Pretty east asian visuals are the most appealing and popular type of visual in the world now,followed by western cacausian (esp blonds) and then the rest.
BTS and east asian entertainment are far more idolized by indian younger gen than their own kind.
Indian teens don't really fangirl over sharukh or amir,most are secretly squealing about some korean star.
.The reason for lower views of bts is because ,even though india is 1.2b in population,there's a massively
large portion of Indians that aren't fluent in english and still living in very backward condition,with no clue about the outsuide world,east Asian ent is out worldly & unconstrueble for them.Kpop was never promoted in india like it was done in Indonesia,so people just don't know.
But when the Indians gain some working english and develop slightly more refined taste & worldly pov ,they all flock for East Asian entertainment.
It's just that in poorer south asian countries like India,they were never shown in mainstream networks and with lack of internet penetration a decade ago,the indians weren't aware of east asian ent.Now things are changing rapidly,bts ,blkpink etc tops youtube & twitter trends in India now.

You would expect the Indians to hate everything china but here's the comment section of average chinese drama streamed on youtube. Atleast 90% comments are made by Indians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QcHHal-pt4&t=626s

Indian tv networks are spammed by anti chinese news ,but that doesn't stop chinese drama and celebs from gain more and more popularity in India.That's just how effective and powerful East asian soft power is.

But in order to be popular, a deep meaning song and beautiful melody with good musicality are not preferred by larger world population, mostly only prefer easy listening and dance and this is why Indonesian music producer that try to get more money from worldwide listener also try to follow the trend and create this kind of music. This is just one of the example

The girl you mentioned that had less views, probably dominates streaming services.

In China, bts-bigbang-tfboys dominates the fandom game, but in in terms of music -the likes of faye wong,eason chan are far more popular among public and they dominate streaming platforms.
These are different aspects of any music industry it.

But groups like bigbang has massive fanbase in china but their music is also one of the most popular among public,so it depends.

Asteric · Oct 20, 2020

Leishangthem said:
Kpop was never promoted in india like it was done in Indonesia.

Even in indo, kpop culture not fully promoted. We are not try to be kpop wannabe.

You can search youtube battle for Viet pop vs Thai pop vs Indo pop.
Thai pop / Viet pop can reach 100million view easily.

We try kpop style but the market not so good

Here other scene indonesia music.
Sheila on 7 always break the record for off air concert.

in Malaysia

So what do you think? Indo love BTS bcos music style / taste? Or just like their personal image?

Indos · Oct 20, 2020

Nike said:
Indonesia music industry is very much modelled after the US, there is many Indonesian singer and composer learn about modern music history and composition from US, when the US got local folk and southern style song Indonesia got comparable style in the like of Dangdut and Javanese style music. And pop rock culture very much dominated Indonesia music style for decades. Indonesia market largely actually doesn't give much attention toward cliche and very Niche K Pop style music and dance. And i bet in the next two decades people still singing and knowing Dewa old song like Kangen or Risalah Hati but not many to remember what is BTS and their songs.

I think the trend in Indonesia music now is to combine our traditional music with modern Western music. These trend is actually initiated by Guruh Soekarno putra, and we can see previous ASIAN Games official songs also showchased the fusion.

And this Indonesian younger generation musician even try to take it into another level where Javanese songs itself that become the main substance of the fusion with Western style music.

mike2000 is back · Oct 20, 2020

Viet said:
Yes VN is ruled by one party communist.
However 95 percent of Vietnamese support capitalism. The percentage is higher than any other countries in the world per Pew survey. The vast majority of Vietnamese think only hard working brings the country forward, not by ideology.

Same can be said about China. Probably even more than Vietnam. Doesn't change the point I made earlier.

Asteric · Oct 21, 2020

Latest ASEAN hits song, which country like kpop style?

This Indonesia modern mix traditional style became hits

cover

OppositeDay · Oct 21, 2020

Do South East Asian countries listen to each other's music?

lcloo · Oct 21, 2020

Too much interaction between Vietnam and supapowa 2020 is making them to think alike. Nah... Vietnam is not and will not be leader of ASEAN.

Indos · Oct 21, 2020

OppositeDay said:
Do South East Asian countries listen to each other's music?

I dont know for recent time since internet doesnt have limitation and I see some comment coming from several SEA citizens on Indonesian popular songs/singer, but traditionally it is only between countries that use Melayu language which are Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei with Philippine that I see become the exception but only for their legend singer like Jose Marichan, Maribet, and Christian Batista (using English)

Here are some Indonesian band concert in Malaysia and Singapore

Noah concert in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia