Very long range BVR Air to air missiles

[Oldman1]

too many variables, if A2A comes closer to AirCraft then chase won't be long. Pilot must do some thing veryyyy smart, flare it or eject :p

I think deploying flares makes it worse.

 

[PK_Patriot]

I think deploying flares makes it worse.

can you explain how ?

 

[Oldman1]

can you explain how ?

The new AA missiles would go directly to the source which is the fighter aircraft deploying it.

 

[holysaturn]

Mach 4 = 1.1801856 KM/s

i.e a missile traveling a Mach 4 will travel 300Km's in 254 seconds, that's 4.23 mins.

As a rule of thumb BVR engagements are at half the actual capacity of the BVR range,

Head on engagement, at a missile launched at 4 mach with the target at say traveling at mach 1, the relative velocity will be mach 5,

@60 KM engagment : 40.67 seconds to impact
@80 KM Engagement: 54.22 Seconds to impact.

Now given the extremely small rcs of a A2A missile, picking up on the Pulse doppler radar is difficult thus most modern A/cs rely on IR and Spectral UV MAWS where detection range is as low as 20 miles, and thus the reaction time of pilot when he actually picks up the alarm tone on the Maws is 13.56 Sec's.

Now you tell me it that is enough for the aircraft to out maneuver a Mach 4 15G missile?

Pilots also rely on RWR for detecting BVR , so the pilot is aware immediately after the lock is achieved as the radar beam will narrow down thereby making it easier for the RWR. The direction of missile approach can also be predicted(to an accuracy of 1 deg with latest ESM,RWR) as the firing aircraft will not manuver much to maintain radar lock.

The missile as it travels much faster than the aircraft the missile has to pull as much as five times the targets G force but the manuvering target will in most cases break the radar lock before outmanuvering or outrunning(noescape zone) the missile.

Manuvering targets with high transient performance will reduce the effective range of the missile as it will bleed the missiles energy during endgame especially for coasting missiles without multipulse motors or ramjet(ramjet missiles ususally are not as manuverable as conventional missiles due to weight and air intake limitations.)

Combined with Countermeasures and IFF problem the effective range of a BVR shot cannot go much more than visual range(longest BVR kill is at 29.6km at non mauvering target with no proper RWR,coutermeasures, even though the missile's advertised range was more than double that).Ultra long range BVR missiles will be too bulky to manuver an thus primarily used againts tankers and awacs.

 

[asad71]

List of active missiles of the United States military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Russian Philosophy of Beyond Visual Range Air Combat

 

[PK_Patriot]

gest BVR kill is at 29.6km at non mauvering target with no proper RWR,coutermeasures, even though the missile's advertised range was more than doub

Pilots also rely on RWR for detecting BVR , so the pilot is aware immediately after the lock is achieved as the radar beam will narrow down thereby making it easier for the RWR. The direction of missile approach can also be predicted(to an accuracy of 1 deg with latest ESM,RWR) as the firing aircraft will not manuver much to maintain radar lock.

The missile as it travels much faster than the aircraft the missile has to pull as much as five times the targets G force but the manuvering target will in most cases break the radar lock before outmanuvering or outrunning(noescape zone) the missile.

Manuvering targets with high transient performance will reduce the effective range of the missile as it will bleed the missiles energy during endgame especially for coasting missiles without multipulse motors or ramjet(ramjet missiles ususally are not as manuverable as conventional missiles due to weight and air intake limitations.)

Combined with Countermeasures and IFF problem the effective range of a BVR shot cannot go much more than visual range(longest BVR kill is at 29.6km at non mauvering target with no proper RWR,coutermeasures, even though the missile's advertised range was more than double that).Ultra long range BVR missiles will be too bulky to manuver an thus primarily used againts tankers and awacs.

How you can define ultra long range BVR as you said "Ultra long range BVR missiles will be too bulky to manuver an thus primarily used againts tankers and awacs." ? One of the world's longest range BVR missile is only 160 kg with 200 km range that is AAMRAM-ncade

 

[Viper0011.]

F-35 spead is less than 1.6 mach which is 2.5 times less than BVR missiles speed.

Wrong example......the -35 can detect any size missile's firing / after burn from 800 miles away. So it's reaction will be instantaneous. Doesn't matter it it flies at Mach 1.6 or 9.6....

 

[HariPrasad]

Russians ne hi karna hai yeh saabh,also what's the status of Astra Mk 2

First launch by year end.

 

[Didact]

Wrong example......the -35 can detect any size missile's firing / after burn from 800 miles away. So it's reaction will be instantaneous. Doesn't matter it it flies at Mach 1.6 or 9.6....

Untrue, the DAS is reportedly capable of tracking a Ballistic missile/rocket's burn from 800 miles. There is considerable difference between a BM and a normal AAM.

The motor and exhaust temperatures of a BM/rocket can reach 3500K, rendering it easy for an ordinary FLIR system to track it at 100km+. And this is discounting the fact that the exhaust plume for a rocket is much longer and larger and hotter than that for an AAM.

The next problem is that the DAS, or any IR based system is at the mercy of the weather for making effective target tracking at extreme ranges. Presence of clouds will reduce the detection range quite considerably.

 

[Viper0011.]

Untrue, the DAS is reportedly capable of tracking a Ballistic missile/rocket's burn from 800 miles. There is considerable difference between a BM and a normal AAM.

The next problem is that the DAS, or any IR based system is at the mercy of the weather for making effective target tracking at extreme ranges. .

I have two things to answer your post with:

On the first part of your post:

And on the second. Its untrue. You don't know DAS. Your post goes between IR and then FLIR in circles.......

 

[Didact]

I have two things to answer your post with:

On the first part of your post:

And on the second. Its untrue. You don't know DAS. Your post goes between IR and then FLIR in circles.......

Designated AN/AAQ-37, the EO DAS is comprised of six infrared sensors, flush-mounted around the aircraft to afford 360-degree, spherical coverage — in mathematical terms "4 pi steradian." The sensor array will provide the F-35 pilot with missile-warning, situational awareness and navigation FLIR, operating simultaneously, in one package.

Avionics Magazine :: Industry Scan

I'm tempted to add more, but I doubt you even have the qualification to understand what a steradian even means. No use arguing with someone who has to use smileys to lead his counter. Shows lack of considerable sets of skills.

 

[Viper0011.]

Designated AN/AAQ-37, the EO DAS is comprised of six infrared sensors, flush-mounted around the aircraft to afford 360-degree, spherical coverage — in mathematical terms "4 pi steradian." The sensor array will provide the F-35 pilot with missile-warning, situational awareness and navigation FLIR, operating simultaneously, in one package.

I'm tempted to add more, but I doubt you even have the qualification to understand what a steradian even means.

Please KEEP believing in what you are reading. Remember, you need top secret clearance to get "closer" to the -35's even at a base under operational condition. Unless they are just parked for an air show display, you won't get to see it and definitely won't see the "workings" of it (unless you join the project of course).

Next, back to the typical Indian bull shi*t. Qualifications right? You think we Americans are stupid and all the math and science ONLY exists in India. You COME to America to work.....there is a reason behind it. We "INVENT". When you couldn't run your LCA's engines....who did you go to (just one example)?

So that should tell you our capabilities. I didn't mean to go off topic but its wrong of you and pretty disgusting when you bring out your geeky Math's and Science skills and try to show you are the super being. When its not the case.

 

[gslv mk3]

You think we Americans are stupid

Are you an American or a Pakistani ?

 

[Viper0011.]

Are you an American or a Pakistani ?

 

[MilSpec]

So that should tell you our capabilities. I didn't mean to go off topic but its wrong of you and pretty disgusting when you bring out your geeky Math's and Science skills and try to show you are the super being. When its not the case.

Refute what he said, he's just calling spade a spade....Please educate us on AN/AAQ-37 detecting a r27 800 miles away, do you know how retarded it sounds....