***** USA This is the Wrong Time to Physically Confront China Now *****

[jhungary]

It seems you still don't get the point.

It's not growing China expel America out of Asia, it's about protecting China's own territory.

Like what? Provided Indonesia meddle in Timor and meddle in Christmas Islands. These are two completely different thing to Australia.

do tell me how Chinese territories being threatened by the United States?

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

no problem. bro. If I was you, I would probably make the same choice.

So you think that Vietnam should be a Chinese province again and that if you were half Chinese, you would come to this forum on the Chinese side?

Huan remembers his roots as most Chinese do.

do tell me how Chinese territories being threatened by the United States?

]

Seriously?

Just 60 or so years ago, they moved their troops right up to the Yalu and bombed buildings on the Chinese side. Mcarthur threatened to Nuke a wall of radiation in Northern China.

Taiwan is still renegade because of American interference. Are the people of Taiwan not Chinese?

 

[jhungary]

Just because we don't do anything 20-50 years ago doesn't mean we enjoy being harassed. The fact is we are tired of your harassment and will be more proactive in safeguarding our national security even if it means harming interest from another country. We believe the end result they will appreciate our thinking.

Yours? Or Asian's interest??

What kind of NATIONAL SECURITY you can safeguard by protesting US overseas interest, while none of those interest is in Mainland China?? So selling arms to Japan is a harassment to China? Or Setting up TAAHD on South Korea is a kind of harassment to China?

US is AND ALWAYS GOING TO BE looking out for its own interest in Asia, place like Singapore, Guam, Japan, South Korea, CNMI, Australia, New Zealand, And none of those interest are in or related to China. Or do China ready to claim all these area their?

As I said, things have not change, only Chinese view toward the situation changes, and this change can be deadly.

Looks adequate you say, but your sentiment is doubtless inclines to west and disregards China's interest.

Yes I admit US is not getting more aggressive in pasted 50 years, but how more aggressive it still could be? It has been to the culmination after WW II, Our SCS( South China Sea) has been dominated by others countries for so long... Ha thanks to that corrupt Manchu Regime and that bald Cheung Kai Shik. We used to have their, so we need it back, don't assert those what sovereignty is illegal or something, Remember US Texas and New Mexico. Now, we are calling those lost treasures back, we have reasons to do that.

Even western world admitted the sovereignty of SCS belongs to China.
Old map( 1943 ) published by Canadian gave a huge lAbel(China) below SCS on the map.you want link?

I don't care what Canada or anyone thing, for the US, US is always neutral on SCS, US is not a claimant on SCS and they WILL NOT PROTEST NOR SUPPORT Chinese claim or anyone claim on SCS.

You are looking at the wrong entity to express your sovereignty, if you look to claim SCS, then UN, not the US are the place to go and make your case.

So you think that Vietnam should be a Chinese province again and that if you were half Chinese, you would come to this forum on the Chinese side?

Huan remembers his roots as most Chinese do.

]

Seriously?

Just 60 or so years ago, they moved their troops right up to the Yalu and bombed buildings on the Chinese side. Mcarthur threatened to Nuke a wall of radiation in Northern China.

Taiwan is still renegade because of American interference. Are the people of Taiwan not Chinese?

Since when is the Korean War all about the US? lol? And Are you going to say UN threaten Chinese territories during Korean war?

And Taiwan is still independent have no one to blame but Chinese inability to recover Taiwan.

Do tell me what kind of weapon US sell to Taiwan prohibit China to retake Taiwan? 4 Kidds Class destroyer? 8 Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigate? Or 100 odd old F-16 fighters or the 24 Apache??

in Fact, US military assistance to Taiwan is actually very considerate to China, but did US have any point arm Taiwan to be unreachable to Chinese might? No, I think not. Or you actually want to see what's going to happen if the US disregard Chinese request completely and arm Taiwan like they do with South Korea or Japan? Maybe some Arrleigh Burke Class destroyer? or F-35?

Don't get it wrong, Taiwan can totally afford those thing and more than happy to catch with both hand and feet if the US offer them, and why do you think the US did not offer those to Taiwan even now?

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Yours? Or Asian's interest??

What kind of NATIONAL SECURITY you can safeguard by protesting US overseas interest, while none of those interest is in Mainland China?? So selling arms to Japan is a harassment to China? Or Setting up TAAHD on South Korea is a kind of harassment to China?

US is AND ALWAYS GOING TO BE looking out for its own interest in Asia, place like Singapore, Guam, Japan, South Korea, CNMI, Australia, New Zealand, And none of those interest are in or related to China. Or do China ready to claim all these area their?

As I said, things have not change, only Chinese view toward the situation changes, and this change can be deadly.



I don't care what Canada or anyone thing, for the US, US is always neutral on SCS, US is not a claimant on SCS and they WILL NOT PROTEST NOR SUPPORT Chinese claim or anyone claim on SCS.

You are looking at the wrong entity to express your sovereignty, if you look to claim SCS, then UN, not the US are the place to go and make your case.

Absurd nonsense that is also contradictory.

Yours? Or Asian's interest??

What kind of NATIONAL SECURITY you can safeguard by protesting US overseas interest, while none of those interest is in Mainland China?? So selling arms to Japan is a harassment to China? Or Setting up TAAHD on South Korea is a kind of harassment to China?

US is AND ALWAYS GOING TO BE looking out for its own interest in Asia, place like Singapore, Guam, Japan, South Korea, CNMI, Australia, New Zealand, And none of those interest are in or related to China. Or do China ready to claim all these area their?

As I said, things have not change, only Chinese view toward the situation changes, and this change can be deadly.



I don't care what Canada or anyone thing, for the US, US is always neutral on SCS, US is not a claimant on SCS and they WILL NOT PROTEST NOR SUPPORT Chinese claim or anyone claim on SCS.

You are looking at the wrong entity to express your sovereignty, if you look to claim SCS, then UN, not the US are the place to go and make your case.



Since when is the Korean War all about the US? lol? And Are you going to say UN threaten Chinese territories during Korean war?

And Taiwan is still independent have no one to blame but Chinese inability to recover Taiwan.

Do tell me what kind of weapon US sell to Taiwan prohibit China to retake Taiwan? 4 Kidds Class destroyer? 8 Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigate? Or 100 odd old F-16 fighters or the 24 Apache??

in Fact, US military assistance to Taiwan is actually very considerate to China, but did US have any point arm Taiwan to be unreachable to Chinese might? No, I think not. Or you actually want to see what's going to happen if the US disregard Chinese request completely and arm Taiwan like they do with South Korea or Japan? Maybe some Arrleigh Burke Class destroyer? or F-35?

Don't get it wrong, Taiwan can totally afford those thing and more than happy to catch with both hand and feet if the US offer them, and why do you think the US did not offer those to Taiwan even now?

Absolute self contradictory nonsense.

U.S did not threaten China, the U.N did? So Mcarthur was a U.N general threatening to use U.N nukes right? Slap on a blue cap and press the nuke button and its the U.N that did it? What crap is this?

You then spout nonsense about the situation in Taiwan being Chinese inability to recover the territory never mind that Americans constantly state that they will maintain the status quo. 100 odd F 16 is no small force, Taiwan fields a massive American armed military not to be scoffed at.

Chinese interests in China is constantly being undermined by 'American interests' that just so happens to span the world, right into other peoples back yard.

 

[HRM YANG]

Yours? Or Asian's interest??

What kind of NATIONAL SECURITY you can safeguard by protesting US overseas interest, while none of those interest is in Mainland China?? So selling arms to Japan is a harassment to China? Or Setting up TAAHD on South Korea is a kind of harassment to China?

US is AND ALWAYS GOING TO BE looking out for its own interest in Asia, place like Singapore, Guam, Japan, South Korea, CNMI, Australia, New Zealand, And none of those interest are in or related to China. Or do China ready to claim all these area their?

As I said, things have not change, only Chinese view toward the situation changes, and this change can be deadly.



I don't care what Canada or anyone thing, for the US, US is always neutral on SCS, US is not a claimant on SCS and they WILL NOT PROTEST NOR SUPPORT Chinese claim or anyone claim on SCS.

You are looking at the wrong entity to express your sovereignty, if you look to claim SCS, then UN, not the US are the place to go and make your case.



Since when is the Korean War all about the US? lol? And Are you going to say UN threaten Chinese territories during Korean war?

And Taiwan is still independent have no one to blame but Chinese inability to recover Taiwan.

Do tell me what kind of weapon US sell to Taiwan prohibit China to retake Taiwan? 4 Kidds Class destroyer? 8 Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frigate? Or 100 odd old F-16 fighters or the 24 Apache??

in Fact, US military assistance to Taiwan is actually very considerate to China, but did US have any point arm Taiwan to be unreachable to Chinese might? No, I think not. Or you actually want to see what's going to happen if the US disregard Chinese request completely and arm Taiwan like they do with South Korea or Japan? Maybe some Arrleigh Burke Class destroyer? or F-35?

Don't get it wrong, Taiwan can totally afford those thing and more than happy to catch with both hand and feet if the US offer them, and why do you think the US did not offer those to Taiwan even now?

Not bad, American teaches you well, but neutral, do you feel shame to shout out? Why DDG AB always stroll around here? You said from the stance of America, SCS is an open water area, so why you guys protest our drill and justice exploitation right there?

 

[jhungary]

Absurd nonsense that is also contradictory.


Absolute self contradictory nonsense.

U.S did not threaten China, the U.N did? So Mcarthur was a U.N general threatening to use U.N nukes right? Slap on a blue cap and press the nuke button and its the U.N that did it? What crap is this?

You then spout nonsense about the situation in Taiwan being Chinese inability to recover the territory never mind that Americans constantly state that they will maintain the status quo. 100 odd F 16 is no small force, Taiwan fields a massive American armed military not to be scoffed at.

Chinese interests in China is constantly being undermined by 'American interests' that just so happens to span the world, right into other peoples back yard.

1.) MacArthur IS an UN General, he served under UNC, not US Korean command.

2.) Only US and Russia have Nuke at that point and did US use nuke in Korea in the end?? Do tell

3.) What I said was, Chinese inability in the 50s to take back the Island, and do remember the US policy to Taiwan is of one China, no one stop China from recovering Taiwan, that is if China want to do it.

And do tell me what kind of Chinese interest in china have been constantly undermined by the US? And do show proof but not simply blame every anti-chinese movement to CIA, American have a lot more thing better to do than to start stirring up Anti-China movement in China. Simply it won't sell. Not like when they do stir anti-Chinese sentiment internationally so government in different country will buy US weapon.

Not bad, American teaches you well, but neutral, do you feel shame to shout out? Why DDG AB always stroll around here? You said from the stance of America, SCS is an open water area, so why you guys protest our drill and justice exploitation right there?

If SCS is a high sea, then why you complaint about AB class stroll around high sea?

Dude, you contradict your own comment, you can't have the cake and eat it.

 

[jammersat]

like your thread title suggests , **** USA , China

 

[Keel]

no problem. bro. If I was you, I would probably make the same choice.

@Viet , I will have to pick CN side since they have a much higher impact on our world with their massive size and population. And I personally like CN's flag better as compared to VN's. But as long as VN and CN remained as separate countries, their tension of "Warring States Period" will remained between them unfortunately.

Very wise decisions!
You guys are not stupid at all!
I would have made the same if I were you guys
Fortunately I dont have to face a dilemma
Vietnam will be a part of China's alliance in the next half century

Sichuan Dance Company

 

[TaiShang]

I guess it is the right time, and probably the last window of opportunity, for the US to confront China. They are in fact late to do so. Maybe they have remained relatively benign because China was so non-assertive. The US did not have any facade of legitimacy to harass and contain China beyond its already established capabilities.

Then China has begun to do what others have been doing for decades such as declaring an ADIZ and initiating a moderate island genesis program, giving the US the sought excuse. That was bound to happen, though, because China could not simply stay less engaged than its real capabilities.

Things are changing on the ground. Alliance building and security networking has never been in China's strategic radar due to China's different historical positioning and diplomacy. Despite that, in simply less than two decades, it solved all but one border disputes, signed numerous strategic partnership (not alliance) agreements, launched several economic-integration institutes and became the largest trading nation and partner in the region. These cannot happen accidentally.

The way I see it China is taking calculated steps and managing the crisis with the US while, despite the war trumpeting, the regional dynamics are just as normal. Save aside the heated rhetoric and pseudo sense of urgency from few countries, everything is going in the direction China desires, the status quo is there, from AIIB to other development and cooperation frameworks.

For US, it is the wrong time only because they are late to play the tough guy. But, from another perspective, it is the right time because every day from now is only making it even further wrong.

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

1.) MacArthur IS an UN General, he served under UNC, not US Korean command.

2.) Only US and Russia have Nuke at that point and did US use nuke in Korea in the end?? Do tell

3.) What I said was, Chinese inability in the 50s to take back the Island, and do remember the US policy to Taiwan is of one China, no one stop China from recovering Taiwan, that is if China want to do it.

And do tell me what kind of Chinese interest in china have been constantly undermined by the US? And do show proof but not simply blame every anti-chinese movement to CIA, American have a lot more thing better to do than to start stirring up Anti-China movement in China. Simply it won't sell. Not like when they do stir anti-Chinese sentiment internationally so government in different country will buy US weapon.



If SCS is a high sea, then why you complaint about AB class stroll around high sea?

Dude, you contradict your own comment, you can't have the cake and eat it.

Seriously?

A massive Island off the mainland coast that is bristling with American weapons is not undermining Chinese interests?

You do know that in the 50s, Taiwan was still harboring intentions of taking back the mainland right?

You then state the ridiculous notion that China can take back Taiwan anytime, nevermind the fact that such a venture will be an economical and military bloodbath with little cost for the U.S.A. Quite a good pay off.

The U.S policy is not for one China, it is to maintain the status quo. Which is a divided China, divided because Americans have armed the Island with tech well above what the Chinese had up until recently.

 

[King yellow]

Stay aside, You are showing how to be a disruptive pseudo.
Indian, don't act like a noble idiot,
You are stupid enough, I really distaste with one citizen of a country in poverty and concrete caste system accusing China, disgusting and pretentious sympathy, F Off[/QUOTE

as I said a million time here and there

It's not that US "Confronting" China per se as in many different people said here

Look at what US did in the past 50 years, did US do any more now than in 50 years ago? The answer, is no.

What the American is doing now is what they were doing in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. They did not do more and they did not do less, just this time, China is getting bigger and now felt more threaten by what US did and do.

The situation is not going to change, because most Chinese does not seems to understand one thing. US is an international force, by being international, they ar

Looks adequate you say, but your sentiment is doubtless inclines to west and disregards China's interest.
Yes I admit US is not getting more aggressive in pasted 50 years, but how more aggressive it still could be? It has been to the culmination after WW II, Our SCS( South China Sea) has been dominated by others countries for so long... Ha thanks to that corrupt Manchu Regime and that bald Cheung Kai Shik. We used to have their, so we need it back, don't assert those what sovereignty is illegal or something, Remember US Texas and New Mexico. Now, we are calling those lost treasures back, we have reasons to do that.
Even western world admitted the sovereignty of SCS belongs to China.
Old map( 1943 ) published by Canadian gave a huge lAbel(China) below SCS on the map.you want link?

e also part of Asia, and that's why US did what they do, to protect their interest in Asia.

Until the day we saw US pack up Guam, CNMI, Japan, South Korea and Probably Hawaii, US will continue to present in Asia, and I don't see how US will pack up Guam, CNMI, Japan and South Korea.

what US today do is hegemon

as I said a million time here and there

It's not that US "Confronting" China per se as in many different people said here

Look at what US did in the past 50 years, did US do any more now than in 50 years ago? The answer, is no.

What the American is doing now is what they were doing in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. They did not do more and they did not do less, just this time, China is getting bigger and now felt more threaten by what US did and do.

The situation is not going to change, because most Chinese does not seems to understand one thing. US is an international force, by being international, they are also part of Asia, and that's why US did what they do, to protect their interest in Asia.

Until the day we saw US pack up Guam, CNMI, Japan, South Korea and Probably Hawaii, US will continue to present in Asia, and I don't see how US will pack up Guam, CNMI, Japan and South Korea.

what the US today do is hegemonism.They constantly bring contradition and conflict to the world aiming to develop their arms trade.

 

[jhungary]

Seriously?

A massive Island off the mainland coast that is bristling with American weapons is not undermining Chinese interests?

You do know that in the 50s, Taiwan was still harboring intentions of taking back the mainland right?

You then state the ridiculous notion that China can take back Taiwan anytime, nevermind the fact that such a venture will be an economical and military bloodbath with little cost for the U.S.A. Quite a good pay off.

The U.S policy is not for one China, it is to maintain the status quo. Which is a divided China, divided because Americans have armed the Island with tech well above what the Chinese had up until recently.

Dude, do you actually know anything with history, beside the Chinese version of how thing should have been.

The Chinese cannot possible take back Taiwan in the 50s, 60s and 70s because Chinese Navy is a joke. You can actually look at how Taiwan counter China with WW2 Era Destroyer and Frigate, it's not because US selling top notch equipment to Taiwan prohibit China from recovering Taiwan, It is Chinese own lack of modernisation of its armed force blew the chance of recovering Taiwan in the 50s, 60s,70s, 80s and early 90s, if you have to blame someone, blame your own government.

As I said, US always arms Taiwan with second to third class weapon, those 100 F-16 are even worse than the Pakistani Block 52s, and the Navy is, well, crap. And the only actual advance weapon sales on the last 20 years is the 24 Apache AH-64E, which I doubt it can do anything in a case of China vs Taiwan

Again, you still have not answer me my question. Taiwan have money to even buy Arleigh Burke Class from the US or just about any advance weaponry, why do you think they still have not got them even now?? Or you want to see the US arming of Taiwan totally disregard the Chinese?

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Dude, do you actually know anything with history, beside the Chinese version of how thing should have been.

The Chinese cannot possible take back Taiwan in the 50s, 60s and 70s because Chinese Navy is a joke. You can actually look at how Taiwan counter China with WW2 Era Destroyer and Frigate, it's not because US selling top notch equipment to Taiwan prohibit China from recovering Taiwan, It is Chinese own lack of modernisation of its armed force blew the chance of recovering Taiwan in the 50s, 60s,70s, 80s and early 90s, if you have to blame someone, blame your own government.

As I said, US always arms Taiwan with second to third class weapon, those 100 F-16 are even worse than the Pakistani Block 52s, and the Navy is, well, crap. And the only actual advance weapon sales on the last 20 years is the 24 Apache AH-64E, which I doubt it can do anything in a case of China vs Taiwan

Again, you still have not answer me my question. Taiwan have money to even buy Arleigh Burke Class from the US or just about any advance weaponry, why do you think they still have not got them even now?? Or you want to see the US arming of Taiwan totally disregard the Chinese?

Do I have to answer such an absurd self gratifying question?

On one hand you argue that the U.S does not undermine Chinese interest and on the other you admit that the U.S.A arms Taiwan with what you regard as third rate weapons but are efficacious weapons nontheless. I have already stated that the Chinese military could not take Taiwan without massive losses militarily and economically. What the U.S provided is enough to deter any country from taking the island and China is only recently building a modern military.

Your ridiculous argument goes

"The U.S.A does not undermine China because they only provide massive military weapons and not exceedingly powerful weapons like the F 35 or the AB destroyers"

Why not throw in nukes as well? The U.S does not provide Taiwan with Nukes so China should be thankful eh?

Such a nonsensical argument, arrogant in the extreme while also self contradictory.

Why not kick the soccer ball into your own goal like the way you write your argument?

P.s

You are the one with a grasp of history draped in red and white stripes and sprinkled with stars.

If you could say that the U.S.A does not undermine China with a straight face, you are one audacious liar. Unless you do belive in the crap you post of course. Then you are just daft.

 

[Aepsilons]

Dude, do you actually know anything with history, beside the Chinese version of how thing should have been.

The Chinese cannot possible take back Taiwan in the 50s, 60s and 70s because Chinese Navy is a joke. You can actually look at how Taiwan counter China with WW2 Era Destroyer and Frigate, it's not because US selling top notch equipment to Taiwan prohibit China from recovering Taiwan, It is Chinese own lack of modernisation of its armed force blew the chance of recovering Taiwan in the 50s, 60s,70s, 80s and early 90s, if you have to blame someone, blame your own government.

As I said, US always arms Taiwan with second to third class weapon, those 100 F-16 are even worse than the Pakistani Block 52s, and the Navy is, well, crap. And the only actual advance weapon sales on the last 20 years is the 24 Apache AH-64E, which I doubt it can do anything in a case of China vs Taiwan

Again, you still have not answer me my question. Taiwan have money to even buy Arleigh Burke Class from the US or just about any advance weaponry, why do you think they still have not got them even now?? Or you want to see the US arming of Taiwan totally disregard the Chinese?

Let us not underestimate the Taiwanese anti air and anti ship capabilities. They have a vast number of Sky Sword units enough to impose air denial on the PLAAF. They also have a vast number of Hsiung Feng IIs....enough to keep the PLAN East Sea Fleet away and not dare come within 100 miles of Taiwanese maritime zone.

Taiwan is no joke on her own right. Forcefully seizing this island would result in strategic failure for any would be aggressor , or impose a bloody pyrrhic victory (if that's even possible).

 

[jhungary]

Do I have to answer such an absurd self gratifying question?

On one hand you argue that the U.S does not undermine Chinese interest and on the other you admit that the U.S.A arms Taiwan with what you regard as third rate weapons but are efficacious weapons nontheless. I have already stated that the Chinese military could not take Taiwan without massive losses militarily and economically. What the U.S provided is enough to deter any country from taking the island and China is only recently building a modern military.

Your ridiculous argument goes

"The U.S.A does not undermine China because they only provide massive military weapons and not exceedingly powerful weapons like the F 35 or the AB destroyers"

Why not throw in nukes as well? The U.S does not provide Taiwan with Nukes so China should be thankful eh?

Such a nonsensical argument, arrogant in the extreme while also self contradictory.

Why not kick the soccer ball into your own goal like the way you write your argument?

Blah Blah Blah, and yet you still refuse to answer me question

Note that none of what you said actually answering my question. Beside calling my question ridiculous.

lol, you have a very good day.

Let us not underestimate the Taiwanese anti air and anti ship capabilities. They have a vast number of Sky Sword units enough to impose air denial on the PLAAF. They also have a vast number of Hsiung Feng IIs....enough to keep the PLAN East Sea Fleet away and not dare come within 100 miles of Taiwanese maritime zone.

Taiwan is no joke on her own right. Forcefully seizing this island would result in strategic failure for any would be aggressor , or impose a bloody pyrrhic victory (if that's even possible).

lol I was not talking about the situation today, but rather in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

Back then was the only time China can take Taiwan at its weakness, but since their navy is nothing more than a joke (I think they have a few gunboat and that's it) and you cannot capture an Island without an Navy to escort your troop. That negate any ground advantage the Chinese have.

And yet, the aforementioned Chinese member think this is due to some US magically selling WW2 Era ship in the 70s lol. I had a very good laugh actually.

And for your question. It is impossible now for China to take Taiwan by force with minimal casualty. US hardly sell anything to Taiwan anymore and that is the reason Taiwan bump their own gear up instead of relying on the US.

As a military man myself, I know for a fact that to take an well defended Island, the attacker have to have at least 5 to 1 advantage, and don't say China, if US were to try and take Taiwan tomorrow, I would not want to be send onshore with one of the LCAC