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USA can surrender East Asia to China

HongWu

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Gwynne Dyer: China’s supremacy need not mean war with U.S. | states, united, britain - Opinion - The Orange County Register

Gwynne Dyer: China's supremacy need not mean war with U.S.

Just as Chinese Vice President Xi Jinping arrived this month in the United States for a four-day visit, President Barack Obama told an audience of workers in Milwaukee: "Manufacturing is coming back!" Coming back from China, that is.

But while the Master Lock Co. of Milwaukee has, indeed, moved some jobs back to the United States, everybody knows that the flow will really continue in the other direction.

It doesn't matter whether China's economy finally overtakes America's in 2020, or 2025, or 2030. A great shift of productivity and wealth is under way, and economic power generally translates pretty directly into military power. So will the United States and China be able to manage the shift without a great war?

At the end of Xi's U.S. visit, the incoming Chinese leader assured delegates at a trade conference Feb. 18 in Los Angeles: "A prosperous and stable China will not be a threat to any country. It will only be a positive force for world peace and development." Perhaps, but everybody else is very nervous about it.

The transition from one dominant world economic power to another is always tricky, and the historical precedents are not encouraging. Spain was the 16th century superpower, and the shift to French domination, though never complete, entailed several generations of war. Then Britain displaced France, amidst several more generations of war.

When Germany challenged British supremacy and Japan began building its empire in the Pacific and East Asia in the early 20th century, the transition involved two world wars – and resulted in the de facto division of the world between two non-European superpowers, the United States and the Soviet Union. The omens are not promising, to say the least.

Both the U.S. and the Chinese armed forces use these precedents to argue for greater military spending. The Chinese generals mostly do it privately, within the confines of Communist Party hierarchy. American military leaders do it more publicly, by coming up with risk assessments designed to frighten the public into keeping defense spending up, but they both groups play the same game.

They can't help it. Their military training and their whole world view condition them to expect conflict, and their corporate interest in a higher defense budget leads them to define almost any change as a threat. It sometimes feels like we are doomed to repeat the past endlessly.

But the past is a complicated place, and there is a systematic distortion of history that emphasizes violent transitions at the expense of peaceful ones. In fact, at least one major power shift in the past century was entirely peaceful.

The U.S. economy overtook Britain's late in the 19th century, and it was not inevitable that the change in the pecking order would be peaceful. The time when the two countries would be close allies was still far in the future, and throughout the 19th century Americans continued to see Britain, their old colonial master, as their most dangerous enemy. The two countries fought their last war in 1812-14, but Britain kept a garrison in Canada until 1870.

London then withdrew the garrison, but not because it trusted the United States. It just calculated that the United States was now so strong that Britain could never win a land war against it in North America. It also concluded that a large Royal Navy presence in American waters was likely to drive the United States into a naval arms race that Britain would lose, and so began thinning out the number of warships that it kept in the western Atlantic.

It was the right strategy. The United States never invaded Canada again, and, although it meddled a great deal in the affairs of various Caribbean and Central American countries, that did not threaten any British vital interest. The thorny crown of being the world's greatest power passed from Britain to the United States without a war, and within one more generation the two countries were allies.

So now it's America's turn to figure out what to do about an emerging great-power rival on the far side of a great ocean, and one option would be to copy Britain's example. Don't provoke the Chinese by hemming in their country with air bases, carrier fleets and military alliances, and they'll probably behave well. If they don't, then the other Asian great powers, Japan, India and Russia, are quite capable of protecting their own interests.

The United States has no truly vital interests on the Asian mainland, or at least none that it could protect by fighting China. It was entirely safe from foreign attack before it became the world's greatest power, and it will still be militarily invulnerable long after it loses that distinction.

Britain is a lot more prosperous than it was when it ran the world, and its people are probably happier, too. Decline (especially decline that is only relative) is not nearly as bad as Americans imagine.
 
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As much as I'd like to see Us out of Asia the fact remains no other country or entity can fill in. Certainly not the current Chinese regime and neither by a longship the current Indian one. To help preserve the change in power many smaller countries need USA to be here to challenge the bully (figure of speech)
 
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I'd like US get out of S.E.A too, but I also would like to see NATO to filled in that blank so China will back off S.E.A quickly.
 
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Create a new SEATO to counter China's expansion in Asia if you don't want to be dependent on the U.S. We have Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, etc.

If that day happend, I am the very first person who realy happy for it. SEATO is a must.
 
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As long as China reclaim Taiwan peacefully in the near future, I do not mind U.S. stay currently in east Asia. BTW, U.S. stay in Japan is quite good. At least, U.S. will prevent Japan from becoming another evil invasion power again.

China has no interest challenging U.S. in East Asia. However, China has no interest being challenging by U.S. for her core interest as well.

---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

To be honest, that is really a dream. Japs and Korea dare not to do that considering their huge dependence on China. Taiwan??? Dare it? That means China reclamation will have to be accelerated.

If that day happend, I am the very first person who realy happy for it. SEATO is a must.
 
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iraq, iran, syria, afghanistan then pakistan and then it will b china's number to get b@nged by america.. USA surely moving in right direction.. All communist nations getting b@nged 1 by 1..
 
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Dude... This article has no sense... This is just a wet dream of China... China can become a economical superpower but China can never become a regional hegimone... China needs to always compete with Japan, India, South Korea......

Edit: Forgot the comrade Russians :P...
 
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Dude... This article has no sense... This is just a wet dream of China... China can become a economical superpower but China can never become a regional hegimone... China needs to always compete with Japan, India, South Korea......

Anything that comes out from HungWu obviously never make sense. This has been proven before.
 
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Dude... This article has no sense... This is just a wet dream of China... China can become a economical superpower but China can never become a regional hegimone... China needs to always compete with Japan, India, South Korea......

There are way too many Anti china countries within their own continent ... the only way they can wish to become a superpower is by winning them over than trying to fighting them over .Apart from developing a friendly foreign policy rather than aggressive and hawkish one!
 
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"China can never become a regional hegimone"???

I do not know what type of regional "hegimone" you mean. If you mean the power that played vietnam like cat played mouse, kicked your butt whenever she wants to, well, China do have the power to be that "hegimone" in the past two thousand years.

Unfortunately, it is just so unlucky for the little vn to be bordered with its giant neighbor.

Dude... This article has no sense... This is just a wet dream of China... China can become a economical superpower but China can never become a regional hegimone... China needs to always compete with Japan, India, South Korea......

Edit: Forgot the comrade Russians :P...
 
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The transition from UK to US wasn't really a transition at all. Power is held not by a nation, but by the elites of the nation.

China is a different case, the analogy does not apply.
 
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Seriously, when was the last time you read a book? What you said simply does not reflect the reality, Chinese have a very deluded and twisted version of history, and everyone knows that, well except maybe the Chinese. It is widely known within the intellectual circle and among Western Scholars, that Vietnam invasion of Cambodia and toppling of the Khmer Rouge effectively removed China’s influence from Cambodia, at the same time Laos purged all the pro-Chinese officials from its government at the behest of Vietnam. China was not able to effectively challenge Vietnam in Cambodia or Laos - it is a fact. The reality is China will never be able to become a regional hegemony, much less world superpower, so keep on dreaming.


"China can never become a regional hegimone"???

I do not know what type of regional "hegimone" you mean. If you mean the power that played vietnam like cat played mouse, kicked your butt whenever she wants to, well, China do have the power to be that "hegimone" in the past two thousand years.

Unfortunately, it is just so unlucky for the little vn to be bordered with its giant neighbor.
 
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Create a new SEATO to counter China's expansion in Asia if you don't want to be dependent on the U.S. We have Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, etc.

You clownish ameris don't think of yourself too high and pride here, in Southeast Asia we don't really trust anybody the most or the least, all is depend on our national interests, you clown maybe don't remember how ASEAN been created for what reason, now you invite that clownish communist vietnam to joint our team to aginst China just for your usa empire interest???

holy ****.....if that is what your american could bring to us....we would say.....**** That......NO thanks!!!

If that day happend, I am the very first person who realy happy for it. SEATO is a must.

hah, just few 30 years ago USA and its gang teams bombed and tortured and raped your MTF country so bad and now the two become @$$ licking to each others so well without any hesitate. Is this anything wrong if people call vietnam a clown and an ungrateful!?

Dude... This article has no sense... This is just a wet dream of China... China can become a economical superpower but China can never become a regional hegimone... China needs to always compete with Japan, India, South Korea......

Edit: Forgot the comrade Russians :P...

China nevrr has a damn invasion or harm your Turkey in history but I wonder why kind of God damn Turk like you are too negative on eveyrthing about China and the Chinese....I also seeing you doing @$$ licking to your Korean so well and eagerly here, is that what your govt has been telling you to love them and hate the China????

In Muslim World and in your neighbors, nobody gives a damn sympathy to such a big bad bully Turkey , I am also a Muslim but never have an agreement to such cocky bastard Turk like you, you like a clown in world political, everybody hates you like a pig, you backstab USA, you against Russia in the pass, you support terrorists in Xinajing China via East Turkestan Organazations, you come here on PDF trying to bash on China related threads and kiss your god damn viva south korea as saint of your Turk's ancestor. You never know that in Korea they views your Islamist like a low life pigs and always hope you die all to hell or they will go with the West to BBQ you one day soon!

So keep boasting of yourself and bashing on people.

Cocky Turks like you are like a :guns: :sniper:clown.

Seriously, when was the last time you read a book? What you said simply does not reflect the reality, Chinese have a very deluded and twisted version of history, and everyone knows that, well except maybe the Chinese. It is widely known within the intellectual circle and among Western Scholars, that Vietnam invasion of Cambodia and toppling of the Khmer Rouge effectively removed China’s influence from Cambodia, at the same time Laos purged all the pro-Chinese officials from its government at the behest of Vietnam. China was not able to effectively challenge Vietnam in Cambodia or Laos - it is a fact. The reality is China will never be able to become a regional hegemony, much less world superpower, so keep on dreaming.

China never says a damn about their might in wrold superpower bla bla bla....all is made by your bad-mouth and lecture them by your bad-mouth either!

What a clownish indian false flag troll like you never have a dignity in your cell???
 
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