US to strike Iran N-plants

[gambit]

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i don't know if we can say Iranians against Iranians. I would consider this if you had half half but the fact is different. Except if you say that in Iraq it was as well a problem of iraqis against iraqis

Buddy...Whatever it is you posted, I cannot read it so am not going to consider it. But as far as what happened in Iran cannot be considered as Iranians against Iranians, then try to read what is publicly available...

1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At first, the coup appeared to be a failure when on the night of August 15-16, Imperial Guard Colonel Nematollah Nassiri was arrested while attempting to arrest Mosaddegh. The Shah fled the country the next day. After several days of mass confusion, however, a pro-Shah mob marched on Mosaddegh's residence, which was also attacked by a tank column led by retired General Fazlollah Zahedi.[14] Subsequently, Mosaddegh was arrested, tried by military court, and placed under house arrest until his death.

The Shah fled Iran. Looks like 'the CIA' was not so scary after all. And guess who came literally gunning for Mosadegh? Iranians or US troops?

 

[Hussein]

Mohammad Reza Pahlavi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In order to gradually lose support the Shah must have had strong support in the first place. And in the Shia clergy at that. Or are you going to say that 'the CIA' paid off all those mullahs?

shah is unpopular in Iran even now
indeed the shah was really good for economy and we are sad it is disaster now
but the fact is that he didn't care about rights and democracy
for exemple for the celebration of kingdom he invited no Iranian people to be allowed to see it. And he spent so much money and even paid foreigners to take care of celebration . He didn't see respectfully to his citizens
Don't forget the savak which put in jails very moderate people, not speaking of the killing of people during protests.
tchador was forbidden in Iran that was really stupid since one part of the population could not accept it
As well we never forgot what he did in the past. mosaddegh for exemple with the help of cia , that Obama said to be sorry about this part of history
But shah even if he was far less terrible than his father never understtood the right for democracy: it is even criticized by old minister of him Nahavandi

anyway now the followers of Khomeini are against Ahmdinejad
the mosaddegh parti follower is agianst Ahmadinejad
the communist agaisnt the regime
the shah against the regime
the reformist asking for a change and come back to the real IRI of Khomeini

 

[Hussein]

Buddy...Whatever it is you posted, I cannot read it so am not going to consider it. But as far as what happened in Iran cannot be considered as Iranians against Iranians, then try to read what is publicly available...

sorry you need just to click on the link but here i copy an interesting part of it

Is Ahmadinejad's era a continuation of Khomeini's? Khomeini's movement was largely symbolized by Imam Hossein, while Ahmadinejad's (or better to put it, Mesbah Yazdi's) era is driven by Imam Mehdi (Imam-e Zaman) as its central symbol. Imam Hossein's story, although exaggerated by Iranians, is a historical fact that has really happened. While Imam Zaman is something that might happen somewhere, some time. Even many Shea scholars have serious doubts about its truth.

Hossein's movement was a political rebellion against the status quo while Mehdi has been hiding for centuries for no specific reason. The different between Khomeini and Mesbah is between Hossein and Mehdi, between heroism and conservatism, between reality and imagination

 

[Aslan]

It does not matter. The larger point here is that for Iran, it was Iranians against Iranians, be it to install a non-democratic regime or install an Islamic one. This is the one fact that you cannot stand, that there are competing selfish desires in the ME that compelled people to alliances that are considered offensive to some and acceptable to others. The convenient scapegoat here is 'the CIA'.

It does matter, you sir cannot pick and chose an event that you want to believe in and what not. As per your logic I can say that so what Hitler killed 6 million, I dont care. But in todays world it is of equal relevance because what he did and what happen then is contineously shoved in our faces every day. I am open for a discussion with you but it is you who are denying facts and arguing over assumptions. I have proved the point of CIA's involvement with a link an article, you are more then welcome to prove me wrong.

The convenient scapegoat here is 'the CIA'.

If that will make you sleep well at night so be it. But you cant deny history, after all it is our past that shapes our present.

 

[gambit]

It does matter, you sir cannot pick and chose an event that you want to believe in and what not.

The question here is who removed democracy in Iran. I say that ultimately it is the Iranians themselves, today or when Mossadegh was elected then overthrown. So no, it does not matter. The American involvement does not absolve Iranians as a collective of their culpability in the removal of a democratically elected Mossadegh.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Another war US might go bankrupt

 

[Aslan]

The question here is who removed democracy in Iran. I say that ultimately it is the Iranians themselves, today or when Mossadegh was elected then overthrown. So no, it does not matter. The American involvement does not absolve Iranians as a collective of their culpability in the removal of a democratically elected Mossadegh.

I never disputed the fact that the Iranians them selves were not guilty, but the Americans and the British were as guilty as any other party involved. And yes it does not take any thing away from the Shah, but today's Iran is what it is in a large part due to the Americans, the British and the Iranians them selves.

 

[Hussein]

The question here is who removed democracy in Iran. I say that ultimately it is the Iranians themselves, today or when Mossadegh was elected then overthrown. So no, it does not matter. The American involvement does not absolve Iranians as a collective of their culpability in the removal of a democratically elected Mossadegh.

why Obama said he was sorry if CIA was not so much involved
and that's something you didn't understand because maybe you are used to live in a democracy
in a dictatorship, it's based sometimes on terror and it's hard for the 90% of the people to protest. When after you know this that CIA helped the dictatorship.. it means a lot. it means that USA then after speak so much about democracy is just helping the dictators
is that not important to your eyes?
in Iran they are weapons in hands of dictatorship and people have NO weapon. democracy is not fallen from the sky , democracy is not easy thing to get. And when a powerful country is helping to keep in this dictatorship of course don't expect people to appreciate it

 

[gambit]

I never disputed the fact that the Iranians them selves were not guilty, but the Americans and the British were as guilty as any other party involved. And yes it does not take any thing away from the Shah, but today's Iran is what it is in a large part due to the Americans, the British and the Iranians them selves.

No need to. But by grossly exaggerating the actions and effects of US involvement via 'the CIA' you simply distract attention from said guilt. Do this enough and eventually 'the CIA' is responsible for every ills in the ME. Over time the people became Pavlovian conditioned to instantly jumped whenever 'the CIA' is mentioned, just like how the current Iranian regime done several times already, starting with the daylight killing of Neda Agha-Soltan...

Death of Neda Agha-Soltan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Iran's ambassador to Mexico, Mohammad Hassan Ghadiri, suggested in an interview on June 25, 2009 that the CIA could have been involved in Agha-Soltan's death.

Get over 'the CIA'.

 

[Hussein]

No need to. But by grossly exaggerating the actions and effects of US involvement via 'the CIA' you simply distract attention from said guilt. Do this enough and eventually 'the CIA' is responsible for every ills in the ME. Over time the people became Pavlovian conditioned to instantly jumped whenever 'the CIA' is mentioned, just like how the current Iranian regime done several times already, starting with the daylight killing of Neda Agha-Soltan...

Death of Neda Agha-Soltan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Get over 'the CIA'.

This is totally something else.
The lie about cia involved in Neda death (we have the identity of the killer, who is bassij protected by Ahmadinejad) ... is because Ahmadinejad couldn't of course say to be sorry about this. Saying Mossad was involved is a good way to have support from all over the world.
Th'at's that simple it is 100% politics

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Reason # 1


Reason # 2
The chief of Russia’s General Staff, Nikolai Makarov, has warned the
US against striking Iran over the country’s nuclear programme.

Reason #3

x1000

Solid peaceful trade partners

 

[Aslan]

No need to. But by grossly exaggerating the actions and effects of US involvement via 'the CIA' you simply distract attention from said guilt. Do this enough and eventually 'the CIA' is responsible for every ills in the ME. Over time the people became Pavlovian conditioned to instantly jumped whenever 'the CIA' is mentioned, just like how the current Iranian regime done several times already, starting with the daylight killing of Neda Agha-Soltan...

Death of Neda Agha-Soltan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Get over 'the CIA'.

Well I am sure that you will agree that once bitten twice shy!

 

[Condor]

The US will not strike Iran. The U S will only defend itself.
How or why should the A mer ican public prevent its Govt from defending itself.

It will let Israel strike - something it has been preparing for a long time,
But was held back on a tight leash not to do so.

The Saudis will of course allow the use of its airspace to the very Devil himself to strike at any Muslim country that tries to get ahead of itself.
They might even refuel the IDF a/c both ingress and egress if required.

The IDF strike at Osirak, Iraq used Saudi air corridor for their mission.

Unlike Osirak this Israeli strike will not do significant damage to the Iranian Nuke facilities.
The Iranians will react as they have prepared and predictibly, striking back at
Israel and A me rican facilities in the region. And this sets the pace for a massive relentless bombing campaign on Iran, until there's no nuke, no military and no Ahmedinijad.

The stock piling of ammo at Diego Garcia is a prep for the anticipated defensive action.

This does not bode well for Pakistan either.

Watch out for the big ships exiting the Gulf of Hormuz, to get a sense of timing.

 

[T-Faz]

Busted, Gambit works for the CIA, I should have known. Defence forum has been infiltrated.

P.S. Gambit can you please do something to make me President or Prime Minister of Pakistan. I will give you mango in return.

 

[gambit]

Busted, Gambit works for the CIA, I should have known. Defence forum has been infiltrated.

P.S. Gambit can you please do something to make me President or Prime Minister of Pakistan. I will give you mango in return.

You got it. As of now, you are Prime Minister of Pakistan. Take your office tomorrow.