US Stealth UAV RQ-170 downed in IRAN

[Project 627]

Whats that?

Volga Siber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ripped from Raptor.

Thats right, the different wing design alone makes a different aircraft.

Here a MiG-21 mod:

As u can see, mods can look quote different from the original.

Nice try 500, but as we clearly see from this pic the Ye-8 uses the same wing design, tail design, stabilizer design, flap design as the Mig-21 and has basically the same fuselage, but the PAK FA does not share these similarities with Su-27, so your argument fails.

117 is a modification of AL-31

117 uses 80% new parts from the baseline AL-31 so its basically a new engine, and its not even the final engine for PAK FA, the Russian have a much much more scary engine being planed 500.

and its used on latest mods of Su-27

Fail, Saturn 117 is only used in the PAK FA prototypes, the engine your talking about is the Saturn 117S.

Saturn AL-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I asked u to show any plane similar to Su-27 as pak fa. Can u?

Both have widely spaced engines.

And pak fa is many years away from being finished.

Thanks for contradicting your self 500, that means that design of the PAK FA is not final so by you forming a biased one sided opinion calling it modified Su-27 is premature don't you think?

 

[Project 627]

why so much attention to the troll? ) he knows that everything Israel produce is just a modification of old American equipment, like Mercava is a modification of Magach(M60) etc. you know, butthurt hurts

Don't forget about their Kfir fighter jet aka( Mirage 5 clone)

 

[gambit]

Anyways from a source on WAB, they are unnamed, yet many credible posters that are both active and retired, is that components failed on the drone.

Component failure should be the first suspect. But that line of logical thinking is obviously discarded here.

Now, I have bold the above of which interest me, with regards to "safe harbor". I would draw, that its quite a distinction between INS programmable guidance of returning to base, but it's quite another of completely autonomous landing at a Iranian Air Base.

True. But what I was talking about was in general principle.

Lost UAV likely malfunctioned, analysts say - Air Force News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Air Force Times

The RQ-4 Global Hawk has a similar built-in automatic feature to find and land at a divert airfield if the link is lost. The lost link, airfield diversion issue and the inability of UAVs to avoid other aircraft traffic are bones of contention between the Air Force and the Federal Aviation Administration.

Obviously, we are looking at a 'lost' drone in 'friendly' territory here. But in the case of Iran, we can be reasonably assured that planners have taken into consideration that in flying so close to the Iranian border, be it from Iraq or Afghanistan, given how we have lost contact with these drones in the past, procedures were installed in the event such lost of control do occur, and that it would questionable as to why we would program a drone to land at an Iranian airfield instead of just severing all flight controls and let the drone crash. Am not talking about the physical destruction of flight control mechanism but the discontinuation of active flight controls monitoring and guidance.

RQ-4 Global Hawk Crash At China Lake - YouTube

Assuming the Iranian displayed model is the real thing, the reason why the drone seems remarkably intact is because the crash manner just happened to be fortunate enough for the drone, in other words, sheer luck for the Iranians. The damages were not complete, hence we see all the patches in the Iranian video.

I am unaware of the sensors on the aircraft, and which is highly classified, and unless you have a source or are you in the know all of that is complete speculation.

No, I am not.

If we are discussing the probability, then it's probable that it does have some sort of landing mechanism involved if it's unable to return to base such as a glide slope. However, it would need some sort of terrain mapping as it wouldn't run into a mountain and seek out the flattest ground. In which case, if it's programmed with an Inertial navigation system (INS) then why didn't it return? And why did it land elsewhere? Those are questions to ask, probably sensors picked up and the fuel was to low, hence landing in Iran. However landing at an Iranian base, I do not see that as probable. It would neither be programmed in INS to land there nor would it be AI in the drone its self. The programing of the drone I would think would be limited to landing only on flat ground not an air base as it wouldn't be programmed.

Low fuel or 'bingo fuel' is probably the best explanation here.

1- The US was flying the drone on the Afghan side. The US lost contact/control with the drone and somehow eventually it drifted/flew into Iranian airspace. Here is where we have to wonder: If contact was lost while the drone was still in Afghan airspace, and if the drone is programmed with the options of either entering an orbit or RTB, then how or what made it flew into Iranian airspace in the first place?

2- The US was flying the drone out of the Afghan side and crossed into Iranian airspace. The US lost contact/control of the drone sometime inside Iranian airspace. The questions are: Did the drone entered an orbit while both drone and controllers worked to reestablish contact? If yes, then eventually it would run out of fuel and crash. Did the drone fell back on its programming and begin to RTB? If yes, then it does not explain why did the drone crash because the planners would not have taken the drone so deep into Iranian territory as to violate 'bingo fuel', whether contact/control was lost or not.

The problem here is that we simply do not know sufficient details, not all details, just sufficient ones, and I doubt the US is going to 'fess up any more than what is already in the press.

Anyhow, from a source on another board, its possible components failed.

Most people here are far more interested in giving US a black eye than they are about learning new things.

 

[Crypto]

An American surveillance drone has been captured and filmed in Iran, where experts are apparently examining it. But how much valuable information are they likely to glean?

Pictures broadcast by Iranian television of the stealth RQ-170 Sentinel will have made grim viewing in Washington.

Iran has rejected US calls for its return, and state television says military experts were in the final stages of recovering data.

So how easy is it to extract information from a drone?

It all depends what state the aircraft was in when they recovered it, says Nick Brown, editor-in-chief of Jane's International Defence Review.

"It could have crashed and come apart. The version seen on the video clips could be a reconstruction. But if the aircraft is relatively intact, you could take a fair bit from it."

One thing the Iranians might be doing is testing it with radar in an anechoic chamber, he says, to find its "radar cross-section", which is a measure of how detectable it is. They could also learn from some of the more exotic radar-defeating shaping and materials.
Some parts of the RQ-170 - such as the undercarriage and likely the fly-by-wire avionics and engine - have been taken from existing aircraft, so won't offer much that's new.

"But the real bonanza is likely to be the payload. We don't know what payloads are on there but there's probably signal intelligence, electro-optical sensors and/or a radar.

"The RQ-170 doesn't carry weapons and the two humps on the top of the fuselage are radomes or fairings covering satellite uplinks which send information back from those sensors to the aircraft's control station."

With the RQ-170 itself, the challenge is not so much building it but making it airworthy, says Mr Brown.

"There are complicated algorithms that control the aircraft. Getting a boomerang-shaped object to fly where you want it to fly is hard and only really possible with advanced flight modelling, powerful computers and software.

"So if you don't have that level of information gleaned from the aircraft's onboard hard drive and circuitry you won't easily be able to do anything but build something that's the same shape."

All the control algorithms would be encrypted, so it's not as easy as just reading a hard drive and replicating it, he adds.

Could the Iranians do it?

They are past masters at reverse engineering, says Mr Brown, and they have an awful lot of capability, without needing outside help, but sharing the platform with friendly states could offer Tehran substantial political capital.

"Anything is possible and theoretically Iran could copy quite a lot from the basic platform, but it's the control stuff and the avionics that make it usable."

Any form of unmanned technology is potentially very important to Iran, Russia and China, says Elizabeth Quintana, a senior researcher in air power, at the Royal United Services Institute.

"But how useful it is depends on how intact the aircraft is, and whether it had any self-destructive, self-disabled mechanisms on board. I suspect it had some but it looks like it's in one piece, from the pictures and video."

It would be capable of taking images and listening in, she says, so there's quite a lot of information on board, not least about the platforms themselves - how they work, how they communicate with satellites and how the Americans operate them. And identifying the materials that enable the drone to absorb radiated energy - rather than reflect it back - would also be very useful.

"I don't know the level of scientific expertise available to Iran, but if it's true that Russia and China have sent delegates then they do have the expertise."


BBC News - Who, What, Why: How useful is a captured drone?

 

[COPOUT]

UAV crashes of America..this is just a propaganda war...To divert public opinion from rq170

 

[ILYA]

Panetta Says Drone Campaign Over Iran Will Continue

The mysterious loss of the RQ-170 Sentinel drone has revealed not only that the U.S. was spying on Iran, but also that the program was being run from Shindad Air Base in western Afghanistan.
Panetta would not comment directly on what that drone was doing over Iran, but he said the U.S. military has no plans to halt the drone operation out of western Afghanistan.
When asked if he would continue those missions as they have been conducted out of Afghanistan, he responded with one word: "Absolutely.
Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Videos
who can believe sentinel is flying near Iran board in Afghanistan with this big Recognition , please check it every one
I think this case is closed , USA says they will continuing sending spy drone in Iran , USA is criminal ,that's all and Iran will do anything for blocking USA way.

 

[poseidon]

The drone can also be a technical diversion tactic maybe it was deliberately delivered to Iran?

No, if was clearly trying to spy, also if it is a trojan horse then i think persian will realize, since they will clearly test the payload on board.

 

[500]

Volga Siber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cant u read own link? Chrysler clone.

Thats right, the different wing design alone makes a different aircraft.

MiG-23 with delta wing:

Kfir is F-16 mod with delta wing and canards:

Nice try 500, but as we clearly see from this pic the Ye-8 uses the same wing design, tail design, stabilizer design, flap design as the Mig-21 and has basically the same fuselage, but the PAK FA does not share these similarities with Su-27, so your argument fails.

You can clearly see that first mod of MiG-23PD had also similar tail and wing design.

117 uses 80% new parts from the baseline AL-31 so its basically a new engine, and its not even the final engine for PAK FA, the Russian have a much much more scary engine being planed 500.

117 is AL-31 mod. New parts means modified parts.

Fail, Saturn 117 is only used in the PAK FA prototypes, the engine your talking about is the Saturn 117S.

Saturn AL-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both are AL-31 mods, very similar to each other.

Both have widely spaced engines.

Tomcat has much wider than Su-27 and Pakfa.

Thanks for contradicting your self 500, that means that design of the PAK FA is not final so by you forming a biased one sided opinion calling it modified Su-27 is premature don't you think?

Pakfa's prototype is obviously derived from Su-27.

 

[poseidon]

500 what is the title of this thread? i am asking for second time to stop changing the subject...

 

[helia]

Panetta Says Drone Campaign Over Iran Will Continue

So you were wrong. You yet think it was flying in afghanistan?

 

[ILYA]

So you were wrong. You yet think it was flying in afghanistan?

who? me or Mr.gambit ? he said the drone flying near Iran board in Afghanistan so Iran is thief for rolling it into Iran!!!!! now you can see who is truly spy and thief!!!!

 

[helia]

Lol no ILYA
I mean gambit was wrong! I just quoted your news to give him proof he asked for

 

[gambit]

So you were wrong. You yet think it was flying in afghanistan?

Lol no ILYA
I mean gambit was wrong! I just quoted your news to give him proof he asked for

We can fly in Afghanistan while looking across the border into Iran. Do you actually do any basic research at all? Or are you perfectly content to let others tell you what to think?

Panetta Says Drone Campaign Over Iran Will Continue | Fox News

...said that the stealth drone campaign along the Iran-Afghanistan border will "absolutely" continue despite the loss of a valuable and sophisticated drone to Iran.

Along does not equal to 'over'.

 

[amalakas]

We can fly in Afghanistan while looking across the border into Iran. Do you actually do any basic research at all? Or are you perfectly content to let others tell you what to think?

Panetta Says Drone Campaign Over Iran Will Continue | Fox News

Along does not equal to 'over'.

True, however, despite all, common sense should be applied, reason says the drone was flying into iranian airspace and that is why it was a stealth drone and not a regular one.

The state of the drone indicates that it landed normally.

Why did it?

- Perhaps the drone malfunctioned, but why would it land? I doubt low fuel was the reason. The built in software would return the drone promptly before that happened.

-If it had malfunctioned, it was very lucky that it landed in unknown terrain with no damage, but perhaps that explains the minor damages it suffered.


- Was it downed, possible. The above case also covers the possibility of it being downed by an advanced system.

In all these cases, the drone was downed in Iran, but was it downed by Iranians? .. I think possibly not, and if the Russians were involved, they will get their hands on the drone.

 

[gambit]

True, however, despite all, common sense should be applied, reason says the drone was flying into iranian airspace and that is why it was a stealth drone and not a regular one.

The flying wing design is already well known for being range and fuel efficient. Its low radar observability property was inherent but accidentally discovered. So in a way, yes, we can argue that it is 'common sense' to use a drone that has both qualities.

The state of the drone indicates that it landed normally.

Actually quite roughly. Assuming what the Iranians displayed is 'The One' that we lost, its patched up state indicated a rough landing/crashing.

Why did it?

- Perhaps the drone malfunctioned, but why would it land? I doubt low fuel was the reason. The built in software would return the drone promptly before that happened.

The RTB feature is expected to kick in. But like I pointed out often already, there are too few details about this for us to make any reasonably accurate speculations as to when the RTB feature should come into play, or if it did, or when it did.

-If it had malfunctioned, it was very lucky that it landed in unknown terrain with no damage, but perhaps that explains the minor damages it suffered.

This would remove the Iranians completely from how Iran came to its acquisition. Therefore this speculation, although the more plausible one, must be rejected. Iranian national pride is at stake here and common sense and logic must be damned.

- Was it downed, possible. The above case also covers the possibility of it being downed by an advanced system.

In all these cases, the drone was downed in Iran, but was it downed by Iranians? .. I think possibly not, and if the Russians were involved, they will get their hands on the drone.

If it was brought down, then most likely it was saturated with a wide area wide bandwidth high power 'everyone be damned' signal. Not by firearms of any type.