US Stealth UAV RQ-170 downed in IRAN

[gambit]

Obviously you still don't get it.

I 'get it' better than you do.

I was suggesting that a two events took place. Both the events are plausible and supported by facts that you have supplied:

Nonsense. As in...

1. The command center controlling the drones was infected with custom made malware that targeted the systems responsible for uploading 'safe harbor' points to the drones.
This may sound far-fetched but what can I say. The media reports about Creech Air Force base total inability to maintain proper computer security is also unbelievable. These are the guys responsible for controlling the drones and they can't keep, as you said, "common Windows based 'script kiddie' crap" from their computers. If this is so, there is every reason to believe they are wide open to a detirmined, elite hacking group.

If it is 'far fetched' then how you say that what if 'far fetched' is 'supported by the facts'? This make no logical sense.

2. After a drone was reprogrammed to have a 'safe harbor' inside Iran, the drone is jammed by creating an interference when it is on a mission near the Iranian border. The drone would respond as designed and land at the nearest 'safe harbor', which is conveniently (for the Iranians) located inside Iran. You said yourself that creating this kind of interference was "hardly astoundingly technical" so I take it you believe this to be possible.

So can Mother Nature create interference. But here is the rub...This kind of interference are usually in 'blanket' mode, meaning it is omnidirectional and affect friends as well as foes. A directional interference operation require foreknowledge of at least the general location of the target. As if that is not difficult enough for the jammer, take a look at the publicly available images of the RQ-170 drone. Notice there are two prominent 'bumps' on the aircraft's topside. Those are communication antennas and they are topside for a reason: Resistance to jamming tactics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-experts-say/2011/12/05/gIQAuo20WO_blog.html

Experts said the primary communications antennas on the RQ-170 are on top of the aircraft, which makes it less susceptible to being hacked.

Just like GPS signals are 'top down', so are the data and control link signals for these aircrafts. The antennas being topside mean the aircraft's body and wings shield the antennas from ground based jamming signals and when a drone is loitering at 15-16,000 meters altitude, who really expect the Iranians to have a jamming aircraft at a higher altitude waiting for just the right drone? No one. Except Iranians, Chinese, Pakistanis, and Europeans, of course. So just because I said in general principle that producing a jamming signal is far easier than 'hacking' into a triple-DES encrypted real time two-way data link, it does not necessarily mean such a jamming signal existed.

Anyways, I am not going to do your analysis for you, there must be something that Uncle Sam pays you for

Here is the reason why I am not popular here: Relevant experience.

People here generally hate anyone with relevant experience producing logical arguments backed up by credible sources, technical or otherwise. The things I read here about 'stealth' a long time ago practically defied the laws of physics. So if you think that Uncle Sam pays me for being here, who is paying you?

 

[poseidon]

Gambit please calm down Sir. they have their hand on it and that is what matters.
just because you have some experince does not mean everyone else is idiots, please calm down, you're a respected member and it would be sad to see you go down and act like this.

 

[gambit]

Iranian sources announced Iran has developed a system that can take over control of US drone outside of Iran and guided it into Iran's territory and landed it:

Here is full article in persian by Irannuc.ir:

ah ... I cant post the link. ( I post it in next post)

My english isnt good but i translate some part of it :

...

One of officials told to Irannuc.ir :"using term of "shooting down" or "crashing" isnt correct for this mission. Actually Iran has succeeded to take over the control of this drone near Iran borders and then navigate it to inside Iran's territory and land it by using a very complicated technology in the field of electronic warfare".

He said : "Americans worry about this new technology of Iran more than losing their UAV".

He added "Americans know that no one has shot to their drone and Iran could to land their drone intact".

Irannuc.ir says this military source says that he has told them he isn't allowed to give more information, but has added since now, Iran's borders is never safe place for US drones, and Iran is capable take over control of enemy drones and navigate them into Iran's territory without shooting down a bullet.

Wow...The technical information contained inside is just so overwhelming...

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 AM ----------

Gambit please calm down Sir. they have their hand on it and that is what matters.
just because you have some experince does not mean everyone else is idiots, please calm down, you're a respected member and it would be sad to see you go down and act like this.

But...I am calm. Judging by the insulting responses, who do you think is really all riled up here?

 

[poseidon]

Yes but if they insult you, then you should report them, dont go down to their level.
I dont think this will make alot of difference to Iranian technology for uav and so on.

 

[gambit]

Yes but if they insult you, then you should report them, dont go down to their level.

I do not report.

I dont think this will make alot of difference to Iranian technology for uav and so on.

It will make a difference provided the Iranians are going to make use of it.

Here is my take on this from an objective perspective: Assuming the best that Iran possess this RQ-170 largely intact, not necessarily in top flying condition, but largely intact to study its construction and internal sensor technology, Iran would be foolish not to have an intensive development program.

The US is leaving Iraq. Given the current state of the Iraqi Air Force, a fleet of Iranian drones, even if they are 50% as capable as ours, would give the Iraqi military, air and ground, serious problems at minimal risk for Iran. Out at sea, knowledge of Iranian drones would not deter the US Navy but would make US allocate much more resources to hunt and deal with them. The possibilities for Iran are enormous with this fortune.

 

[poseidon]

what technology does this have that will be a use to them?
also what are sensors?
sorry i don't really have any knowledge on these things.

 

[gambit]

what technology does this have that will be a use to them?
also what are sensors?
sorry i don't really have any knowledge on these things.

Sensors are: Radar, video cameras, and infrared detectors.

The radar would be the 'active' sensor. The infrared detectors and video cameras would be 'passive' sensors. We are far ahead of Iran on these technology and the integration of them into a flying package. Iran would learn much from US.

 

[longbrained]

Maybe the drone defected?

Basically the drone had grown anti-war sentiment and was tired of all the war crimes being committed so one night on a secret mission after having serious thoughts it defected to Iran and applied for political asylum there. You see even robots have grown hearts. I say we change this robot's name from RQ-170 Sentential to RQ-170 WALL-E.

 

[longbrained]

Sensors are: Radar, video cameras, and infrared detectors.

The radar would be the 'active' sensor. The infrared detectors and video cameras would be 'passive' sensors. We are far ahead of Iran on these technology and the integration of them into a flying package. Iran would learn much from US.

With RQ-170, it is not only those. This drone also has some chemical analyzers on board as the reports say it has the capability to sniff air and generate reports for chemical traces in air. Besides that it has Signal Intercept capability listening to rado communications and cell phone traffic. Also it can be used as a communication relay between friendly forces afar and those on the ground in hostile territory. And these are only those things which we know.

 

[poseidon]

Sensors are: Radar, video cameras, and infrared detectors.

The radar would be the 'active' sensor. The infrared detectors and video cameras would be 'passive' sensors. We are far ahead of Iran on these technology and the integration of them into a flying package. Iran would learn much from US.

I see, so this will help them in their manned planes too right?
this gives Iran a edge over other countries in the region, very soon we will have israel and saudis asking to get the RQ-170 from us.

 

[longbrained]

I do not report.


It will make a difference provided the Iranians are going to make use of it.

Here is my take on this from an objective perspective: Assuming the best that Iran possess this RQ-170 largely intact, not necessarily in top flying condition, but largely intact to study its construction and internal sensor technology, Iran would be foolish not to have an intensive development program.

The US is leaving Iraq. Given the current state of the Iraqi Air Force, a fleet of Iranian drones, even if they are 50% as capable as ours, would give the Iraqi military, air and ground, serious problems at minimal risk for Iran. Out at sea, knowledge of Iranian drones would not deter the US Navy but would make US allocate much more resources to hunt and deal with them. The possibilities for Iran are enormous with this fortune.

Iraq and Afghanistan are friends with Iran so I do not think Iran will ever use drones against them. As for US navy, they are already monitoring US navy by their own drones and have even released its video though I must say, their capability will advance by several decades after getting this drone.

 

[poseidon]

With RQ-170, it is not only those. This drone also has some chemical analyzers on board as the reports say it has the capability to sniff air and generate reports for chemical traces in air. Besides that it has Signal Intercept capability listening to rado communications and cell phone traffic. Also it can be used as a communication relay between friendly forces afar and those on the ground in hostile territory. And these are only those things which we know.

How can something that size have so many things? this probably is the f-22 raptor of the drone world, without weapons of course, Iran will probably make a version of this with weapons, but in about a few years as reverse engineering this is not piece of cake.

 

[Hussein]

Yes but if they insult you, then you should report them, dont go down to their level.
I dont think this will make alot of difference to Iranian technology for uav and so on.

some of them: one was with the pic of Ahmadinejad then take it out
one is the pic of Khamenei
And you should know there is a branch of Sepah that the purpose is go on websites to make propaganda
These people are full of hatred
but they are far to represent the people of Iran.

Let's get to the topic.
From now , the technical points given by gambit show that would be extremely hard almost impossible to "hack" as they say the drone. So now we can only be sure if they give some pic of it. And the credibility of such many words from the army should be followed by some real informations.
the point is there is no real tech info. and no pic.
so i understand why we still can a lot of doubts about it.

there are two things: the passion , be happy about it.. and the reality.

Strangely the news from USA are sometimes contradictory: for exemple just after i read on american virtual embassy comment that it is not true (virtual embassy comment that was visible in many iranian websites) ... just after it i read american newspapers that they are sure the drones was lost.
i would only have doubts 50-50 about one matter , that maybe explains why it is so hard to give some info: this drone was for Iran or for Afghanistan?

 

[poseidon]

some of them: one was with the pic of Ahmadinejad then take it out
one is the pic of Khamenei
And you should know there is a branch of Sepah that the purpose is go on websites to make propaganda
These people are full of hatred
but they are far to represent the people of Iran.


Let's get to the topic.
From now , the technical points given by gambit show that would be extremely hard almost impossible to "hack" as they say the drone. So now we can only be sure if they give some pic of it. And the credibility of such many words from the army should be followed by some real informations.
the point is there is no real tech info. and no pic.
so i understand why we still can a lot of doubts about it.

there are two things: the passion , be happy about it.. and the reality.

Strangely the news from USA are sometimes contradictory: for exemple just after i read on american virtual embassy comment that it is not true (virtual embassy comment that was visible in many iranian websites) ... just after it i read american newspapers that they are sure the drones was lost.
i would only have doubts 50-50 about one matter , that maybe explains why it is so hard to give some info: this drone was for Iran or for Afghanistan?

If there is one things i know is that Iranians have some very smart people, i taught a few and Iranian were the only student i had that actually just came in the lesson and finished their work without ever asking for help, there was a boy called reza who got his phd in maths at the age of 18, what i am saying is that we should not look at the ayotolla and mullas and then say all Iranian are dumb and liars.

the only way we will ever know if this hack really is true then we should wait for another such incident to happen.

 

[IranZamin]

State Radio stated it will soon broadcasts footage of the drone. so hang on people


The radio added that Iran will "soon" broadcast video footage of the downed drone.

Iran says downed US drone was deep in its airspace - Yahoo! News