US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[Xeric]

PressTV - US asks for Pakistan army secret info

US asks for Pakistan army secret info

US military officials have urged Pakistan to regularly disclose classified information regarding Pakistani military facilities and installations along the border with Afghanistan.


Commander of the US Central Command General James Mattis made the plea on Monday following a November 26 incident in which NATO helicopters and fighter jets attacked two military border posts in northwest Pakistan and killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

“The strongest take-away from this incident is the fundamental fact that we must improve border coordination,” Mattis claimed in a statement.

He also called for establishing a shared database between the two countries, saying that an increase in information could help NATO forces in Pakistan avert similar incidents.

In addition, Mattis ordered the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) to seek ways to improve its relations with Islamabad.

Air Force Brigadier General Stephen Clark, who led an investigation into last month's incident, said on Thursday that US forces bore some responsibility for the deaths as they relied on the wrong maps, were unaware of Pakistani border post locations and mistakenly provided the wrong location for the troops.

The investigation, however, claimed that the US forces "acted in self-defense and with appropriate force after being fired upon," and that there was "no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the Pakistani military or to deliberately provide inaccurate location information to Pakistani officials."

The Pakistani military has dismissed the investigation and said it does not “agree with the findings of the US/NATO inquiry as [it is] being reported in media.”

Pakistani officials accuse US-led forces of deliberately carrying out the air strikes from inside Afghanistan.

Following the November incident, US President Barack Obama offered condolences for those killed in the attack but failed to issue an official apology.

Pakistan decided to halt the supply convoys destined for US-led foreign soldiers in Afghanistan in retaliation for the deadly airstrikes.

This is while foreign forces in Afghanistan rely heavily on the Pakistani supply route into the landlocked country.

US-led planes and helicopters have increasingly violated the Pakistani airspace over the past months.

The US claims its air raids target militants who cross the Pakistani border into Afghanistan. But locals say civilians are the main victims of the unauthorized attacks.

----

Quite an optimistic these yanks are, arent they?

 

[VCheng]

..................
----

Quite an optimistic these yanks are, arent they?

It is not a matter of optimism, but direct fallout from the incident as one of the ways to reduce the likelihood of such events. Of course, Pakistan is perfectly within its rights to refuse to provide such information if deemed to be secret. Perhaps other ways of co-ordinating such information can be found.

 

[CENTCOM]

We have said this all along that the tragic incident at Salala has put us behind in many ways and trust is one of them. Trust is necessary for better coordination in the future. No one will deny that both the United States and Pakistan are fighting the same terrorists who have killed over 35,000 Pakistanis including over 5,000 members of the Pakistani forces. Would you not agree that the militants are the true enemies who have no regard for human life? They have attacked civilians and military on both sides of the border.

Our investigation has revealed flaws in communication, coordination and the way near-border operations are handled. We have taken responsibility where we have been wrong but we will not accept blame for things that were not deliberate. Mistakes were made from both sides and the only way to make sure that those mistakes are not repeated is to work together in combining our efforts to beat terrorism. This has been our motive all along… Nothing less!

Detailed investigation report can be read here: http://www.centcom.mil/images/stories/Crossborder/report exsum further redacted.pdf


Maj David Nevers
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

 

[IceCold]

Would you not agree that the militants are the true enemies who have no regard for human life? They have attacked civilians and military on both sides of the border.

Well neither do the militants, nor does the US of A has any regard for the Pakistani life and while yes they are the enemy but so are you. The sooner we identify this, the better off we will be in preparing ourselves for any eventuality, should the need ever arises.

 

[foxbat]

Detailed investigation report can be read here: http://www.centcom.mil/images/stories/Crossborder/report exsum further redacted.pdf

Very comprehensive report.. Thanks for the link

 

[fd24]

We have said this all along that the tragic incident at Salala has put us behind in many ways and trust is one of them. Trust is necessary for better coordination in the future. No one will deny that both the United States and Pakistan are fighting the same terrorists who have killed over 35,000 Pakistanis including over 5,000 members of the Pakistani forces. Would you not agree that the militants are the true enemies who have no regard for human life? They have attacked civilians and military on both sides of the border.

Our investigation has revealed flaws in communication, coordination and the way near-border operations are handled. We have taken responsibility where we have been wrong but we will not accept blame for things that were not deliberate. Mistakes were made from both sides and the only way to make sure that those mistakes are not repeated is to work together in combining our efforts to beat terrorism. This has been our motive all along… Nothing less!

Detailed investigation report can be read here: http://www.centcom.mil/images/stories/Crossborder/report exsum further redacted.pdf


Maj David Nevers
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

It would help if an instant response was made by your superiors - the arrogance and the delayed regret shown is paramount in complete breakdown of relations. Automated messages on here are miniscule - a relationship takes years to build and can be destroyed within minutes. You imply the number of losses we have had - its about time your leaders accepted this showed remorse and we could possibly move on. I feel you are attempting to force the issue and possibly blackmail us - it wont happen this time.

BTW - poor communications for up to 2 hours it was blue on blue? - how long did you need?
Your enquiry is embarrassing for anyone to view. You are the accused, you are put on trial, you are the judge and jury ? Which land allows the accused to lead the enquiry? Land of the muppets?

 

[VCheng]

...................

Detailed investigation report can be read here: http://www.centcom.mil/images/stories/Crossborder/report exsum further redacted.pdf


Maj David Nevers
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

I hope that Pakistan will also make its version of the full report available for comparison as well. It is only fair to listen to both sides in equal detail.

 

[fd24]

I hope that Pakistan will also make its version of the full report available for comparison as well. It is only fair to listen to both sides in equal detail.

With respect VC -You have being very hostile in listening to any other version than their official one. This has been a great disappointment for you and all as there hasnt been anything new released. I believe whatever version the PA come out with wont really be taken seriously by the US et all. What is paramount is the next few weeks and how the PA respond - their patience is paramount

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I hope that Pakistan will also make its version of the full report available for comparison as well. It is only fair to listen to both sides in equal detail.

The one major discrepancy between the Pakistani and US reports is the question of 'who fired first' - other than that the official Pakistani account of the attack, as presented to US journalists at the Pakistani diplomatic mission in the US, the Pakistani parliament and Pakistani journalists, has been accepted in the US report.

1. The US was at fault in not informing Pakistan about its military operations along the border
2. The US was at fault in not providing the proper coordinates of the location it launched air-strikes at
3. The US officers did not communicate/address Pakistani calls for a cessation of hostilities for over an hour (now attributed to a 'delay in communication)

Again, the only discrepancy in the accounts is over who fired first, and even that is irrelevant given that the US is at fault for not informing Pakistan about its operations that night, so even if Pakistani troops had fired first, the fault lies with the US for not communicating.

 

[lem34]

I hope not. I strongly feel, there will be worst year for Pakistan before new elections next year. I don't think, Nov 26 was the last day of attacks.

US will play different tools in different way since OBL raid, Mehran attack, 200 terrorists invasions, Army/ISI 'veritable arm', Nov 26, Memogate, and more false flag operations. One note is North Waziristan is now ignored by West and can't argument with Pakistan army anymore after they refused.

I think the americans would be foolish. their actions seem to be having the opposite effect they are trying to have. It is no secret that they cant launch an all out war and all the other skirmishes etc suggest that americans have underestimated pakistan and overplayed their hand.

 

[VCheng]

With respect VC -You have being very hostile in listening to any other version than their official one. This has been a great disappointment for you and all as there hasnt been anything new released. I believe whatever version the PA come out with wont really be taken seriously by the US et all. What is paramount is the next few weeks and how the PA respond - their patience is paramount

Not at all. My insistence on waiting for both reports was a matter of fairness, the same as now asking for a similarly detailed report from Pakistan too.

Fair is fair, and believe it or not, I do try my best to remain impartial.

The one major discrepancy between the Pakistani and US reports is the question of 'fired first' - other than that the official Pakistani account of the attack, as presented to US journalists at the Pakistani diplomatic mission in the US, the Pakistani parliament and Pakistani journalists, has been accepted in the US report.

1. The US was at fault in not informing Pakistan about its military operations along the border
2. The US was at fault in not providing the proper coordinates of the location it launched air-strikes at
3. The US officers did not communicate/address Pakistani calls for a cessation of hostilities for over an hour (now attributed to a 'delay in communication)

Again, the only discrepancy in the accounts is over who fired first, and even that is irrelevant given that the US is at fault for not informing Pakistan about its operations that night, so even if Pakistani troops had fired first, the fault lies with the US for not communicating.

All the faults that you mention have been clearly accepted by NATO. But please note that there were some lapses on the Pakistani side too, albeit not as egregious.

What should happen now is both sides to figure out how to best move forward. That, like superkaif says above, is paramount.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

at the end of the day, 28 jawans were martyred. . . in an unprecendented act of aggression by seemingly trigger-happy forces (and their troublesome afghan counterparts)

as long as Afghan soil is used against Pakistan, they should forget about cooperation ---same argument they've been trying to use against us we are now using against them....the only difference here is that this is OUR neck of the woods, our forces are not viewed as occupation forces.

to continue to accept the status-quo as ''normal'' would not only be a slap on the face of the honour of the martyred and their families -- it would be slap on the face 18 crore Pakistanis


this whole discussion ENDS as soon as even THEY admit that incorrect coordinates were given.....unless this is some new modus-operandi or a new RoE --- justify trigger happy attacks by fabricating and connivance


that Afghan ''commander'' better hope for his personal well-being and safety that he never ventures again anywhere near the border


in fact i will go a step further and say that a few sonic booms over Afghan bases and cantts by PAF would be such a fitting ''reminder'' to them. Maybe it will wake them out of their drug-induced stupors

 

[lem34]

I would have been more receptive to american explanations had this instance been an isolated incidence. If this action is taken in context with the psyc ops launched by western press and other incidents over recent years it would appear that there seems to be a steady escalation. The most recent press I have seen is that some american sponsered thinktanks etc are now going to the extreme position of backing the dismemberment of pakistan because pakistan will not bend to american geo strategic ambitions.

Pakistan and pakistani people support the war on terrorists and terrorism, we have suffered more than anyone. However what we do not support is the american intention to install a proxy in our neighbourhood who we have been to war with have a major border dispute and assist in containg China. how does americans invading afghanistan and then allowing india to have several consulates help in the fight against terrorism. On the contrary our position is that these consulates are nothing more than bases to train terrorists to come and kill innocent pakistanis. Please dont tell me that with the advent of the american invasion suddenly india has decided on a search in afghanistan for tourists to visit incredible india.

It is and has been stupidity in the extreme for pakistan leadership to allow supply routes to afghan which directly or indirectly morrolly or otherwise are supportive of several Indian consulates in afghanistanj

 

[VelocuR]

latest news
Published: December 28, 2011

WASHINGTON: The American military has briefed Pakistan’s army chief on its investigation into US air strikes that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers on the Afghan border last month, officials said Tuesday.

A report by military investigators was delivered to General Ashfaq Kayani on Sunday by a US officer based in Islamabad, who explained the findings to the general, Pentagon spokesman Captain John Kirby told reporters.

The full report from the joint US-NATO investigative team was not released publicly until Monday to allow time for the Pakistani leadership to read the findings first, Kirby said.

“We wanted General Kayani to be able to see the entire thing,” he said. The approach represented “an appropriate professional courtesy” to Kayani, he added.

 

[VCheng]

latest news
Published: December 28, 2011

WASHINGTON: The American military has briefed Pakistan’s army chief on its investigation into US air strikes that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers on the Afghan border last month, officials said Tuesday.

A report by military investigators was delivered to General Ashfaq Kayani on Sunday by a US officer based in Islamabad, who explained the findings to the general, Pentagon spokesman Captain John Kirby told reporters.

The full report from the joint US-NATO investigative team was not released publicly until Monday to allow time for the Pakistani leadership to read the findings first, Kirby said.

“We wanted General Kayani to be able to see the entire thing,” he said. The approach represented “an appropriate professional courtesy” to Kayani, he added.

Pakistan's response at this juncture would be crucial no doubt. I am sure it will be cognizant of its national interests above all.