US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[Peregrine]

Not that i am standing up for him, but picking on VCheng won't solve Pakistan's problems or even if VCheng says that "American are cold blooded killers" will that force Americans to come clean internationally? Whats the point of this bickering?
P.S i think it's a shame that in the presence of 2 Administrators & 2 mods.........a susceptible member hurled an abuse at VCheng and didn't get penalized.

 

[VCheng]

Those conditions have already been made clear - the US has chosen to not abide by them, as has been made clear in this incident.

This is the 8th incident, not the first. The mechanism to share information before carrying out strikes was set up precisely to avoid such events.

Agreed.

But this time, Pakistan has a very strong hand to get it decided once and for all.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thank you for that post here; says all it needs to say. Now let's see how Pakistan responds officially.

BTW, how many times does Pakistan have to 'respond officially'?

Pakistan's version of events has been provided in the US by military and diplomatic officials, at a briefing to parliament, Ambassadors and the media by the DGMO and the DG ISI.

How many 'official responses' do you want?

 

[longbrained]

They had brought an MC-12W Liberty, two Apache gunships, two F-15's and one AC-130 gunships and two A-10's. All this could not have been against a few troglodytes in mountains. Specially the F-15's which are basically air superiority fighters have no role in fighting cave dwelling troglodytes. The F-15's were there to make sure Pakistan does not send in its F-16 or JF-17 to support the troops. Now we know every thing. They slaughtered Pakistani troops.

 

[VCheng]

BTW, how many times does Pakistan have to 'respond officially'?

Pakistan's version of events has been provided in the US by military and diplomatic officials, at a briefing to parliament, Ambassadors and the media by the DGMO and the DG ISI.

How many 'official responses' do you want?

International geopolitics is a never-ending process by definition.

 

[IceCold]

This morning the Department of Defense spokesperson gave out the following statement regarding Investigation results into Pakistan cross-border incident: The investigation into the 25-26 November engagement between U.S. and Pakistani military forces across the border has been completed. The findings and conclusions were forwarded to the Department through the chain of command. The results have also been shared with the Pakistani and Afghan governments, as well as key NATO leadership.

The investigating officer found that U.S. forces, given what information they had available to them at the time, acted in self defense and with appropriate force after being fired upon. He also found that there was no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the Pakistani military, or to deliberately provide inaccurate location information to Pakistani officials.

Nevertheless, inadequate coordination by U.S. and Pakistani military officers operating through the border coordination center -- including our reliance on incorrect mapping information shared with the Pakistani liaison officer -- resulted in a misunderstanding about the true location of Pakistani military units. This, coupled with other gaps in information about the activities and placement of units from both sides, contributed to the tragic result.

For the loss of life -- and for the lack of proper coordination between U.S. and Pakistani forces that contributed to those losses -- we express our deepest regret. We further express sincere condolences to the Pakistani people, to the Pakistani government, and most importantly to the families of the Pakistani soldiers who were killed or wounded.

Our focus now is to learn from these mistakes and take whatever corrective measures are required to ensure an incident like this is not repeated. The chain of command will consider any issues of accountability. More critically, we must work to improve the level of trust between our two countries. We cannot operate effectively on the border -- or in other parts of our relationship -- without addressing the fundamental trust still lacking between us. We earnestly hope the Pakistani military will join us in bridging that gap.


Maj David Nevers
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

So now its official. US forces acted in self defense. And thanks for the regret. We surely will pass it on to the mothers who have lost their son, to the wives who lost their husbands and to the children who was so young that they did not even knew what kind of a man their father was.
Thanks we appreciate the kind gesture.
So can somebody please open the damn supply route.

 

[SQ8]

They had brought an MC-12W Liberty, two Apache gunships, two F-15's and one AC-130 gunships and two A-10's. All this could not have been against a few troglodytes in mountains. Specially the F-15's which are basically air superiority fighters have no role in fighting cave dwelling troglodytes. The F-15's were there to make sure Pakistan does not send in its F-16 or JF-17 to support the troops. Now we know every thing. They slaughtered Pakistani troops.

Btw.. the suite on MC-12W ISR system has the ability to pick out minute details such as IED's being planted.. and relay comms to involved forces. One of the forum leaders even has a part in its surveillance suite.
So these orbiting slow "watchtowers" could not pick out equipped Pakistani troops.. or the Pakistani flag present on checkposts.. or even the white flag put up.

waste of $21 million if you ask me.

P.S.. these were F-15E strike eagles.. they are the BEST strike aircraft in the world. So they were well suited to the job.
They can however, also carry out anti-air ops in lieu of their ground tasking.

 

[Xeric]

Please take into account the casualty list of the uber cool US special forces vs our forces.
It means that even if we fired, it was not a case of dozens of Rambos being killed which demanded a hot blooded reaction from them.
They should have pulled back!

Do note that we had zero information on any US operation in the area, they were night time intruders which complicates it even more since it is pet time of TTP to jump on our posts in order to slaughter our soldiers.
Unlike their ultra high tech night time vision which is quite impressive, we do not have a great range and resolution to clearly assess who the intruder is at range of engagement. I am not even sure what night vision device we had on that post.
It would have been really impossible for our soldiers to tell who it was till the aircraft and helos started raining death on them...which they sadly did!

On the other hand our post locations are already with NATO/ISAF as part of information sharing.
Even without information sharing, there is no way in hell they would plan a raid along the border and not study our positions, even a 2nd Lt in Pakistan or Indian Army would study the operational area in a much more professional manner...unless ofcourse it was a deliberate provocation of our posts...which i believe is the case here.

They knew who they were attacking, no way in hell i am buying the BS that they did not know.
They would have had the exact coordinates in their system and when time came to pass information to our command, they were miles off the real coordinates...this is all deliberate and somewhere some rascal is responsible for planning this and maybe even getting a laugh out of it.

To make it easier for these buggers to understand here's how and Apache sees it during the night. (Note; the quality is not optimal in this vid, the original vid is much much clearer.):

Apache Night Division Attack - YouTube

We, on the other hand dont have such luxuries. NVDs and NVGs, yes, but they just show you green and that's it, that too by intensifying ambient light. There are other night sights which have better vision but then those are not available to everyone (not affordable - unless we actually start eating 80% of the national budget).

You are absolutely right that it was impossible for us to make out the friend or foe, especially at night and also when a prior report of Taliban activity has already been served to the post. Moreover, being a solider myself i can vouch that it is virtually impossible for an aircraft to misinterpret coordinates especially before going into battle, as you have rightly pointed out that even a 2/Lt would have studied the battle plans more thoroughly than these douches.

i simply am not ready to accept that the helis were not knowing that they were attacking a Pakistani post. Damn it, they kept on butchering the post for more than an hour and a half. They should suck up their GPSs up their a$$es and sniff cocaine through rolled up Rizla papers made up of satellite imageries of the area if those failed to tell them that they were operating in a wrong place.

No wonder a country whose President would apologize and still have the cheeks to act cool: "Yeah, there were no WMDs in Iraq, we killed millions just on suspicion, we are sorry", ....... what respect for (foreign) life should one expect from that Nation?

i have always respected the American way of life (the people), criticized the policies only, but after this episode and the blind justifications of this shameful act by both the goras and wannabe goras, i would treat Yankistan as a whole from now onwards.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

At centcom. Who are you fighting in Afghanistan? The taliban is not an enemy to the US according to the Vice president?

Pakistan is the enemy

the bobmshell willd drop soon when one of US leaders will open his mouth

and after 10 years they will decide it was not Pakistan but China is the real enemy and the story will go on

 

[longbrained]

Btw.. the suite on MC-12W ISR system has the ability to pick out minute details such as IED's being planted.. and relay comms to involved forces. One of the forum leaders even has a part in its surveillance suite.
So these orbiting slow "watchtowers" could not pick out equipped Pakistani troops.. or the Pakistani flag present on checkposts.. or even the white flag put up.

waste of $21 million if you ask me.

It is not a waste. They have the most sophisticated technologies and they knew exactly what they were doing. It was intentional. They had brought in F-15's for God's sake. What was their role in fighting troglodytes. F-15's only have one PRIMARY function and that is to keep air superiority. Taliban does not have any planes. Pakistan has. So that was the real story.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Trigger happy, warmongering red-necks .....

those pilots were simply the tools.. I fault those maniacs who actually ordered that. just like the killing of Tribesmen in the open peace gathering after RD reached USA.

nothing has "Changed" the lunatic warmongers call the shots regading US foreign policy. which is mainly harrasment and invasions.

 

[SQ8]

What you see in the video.. and try to imagine what they did to our troops..
its difficult to keep the blood pressure from rising.

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 PM ----------

It is not a waste. They have the most sophisticated technologies and they knew exactly what they were doing. It was intentional. They had brought in F-15's for God's sake. What was their role in fighting troglodytes. F-15's only have one PRIMARY function and that is to keep air superiority. Taliban does not have any planes. Pakistan has. So that was the real story.

read my post again regarding the F-15's.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

To make it easier for these buggers to understand here's how and Apache sees it during the night. (Note; the quality is not optimal in this vid, the original vid is much much clearer.):

Apache Night Division Attack - YouTube

We, on the other hand dont have such luxuries. NVDs and NVGs, yes, but they just show you green and that's it, that too by intensifying ambient light. There are other night sights which have better vision but then those are not available to everyone (not affordable - unless we actually start eating 80% of the national budget).

You are absolutely right that it was impossible for us to make out the friend or foe, especially at night and also when a prior report of Taliban activity has already been served to the post. Moreover, being a solider myself i can vouch that it is virtually impossible for an aircraft to misinterpret coordinates especially before going into battle, as you have rightly pointed out that even a 2/Lt would have studied the battle plans more thoroughly than these douches.

i simply am not ready to accept that the helis were not knowing that they were attacking a Pakistani post. Damn it, they kept on butchering the post for more than an hour and a half. They should suck up their GPSs up their a$$es and sniff cocaine through rolled up Rizla papers made up of satellite imageries of the area if those failed to tell them that they were operating in a wrong place.

No wonder a country whose President would apologize and still have the cheeks to act cool: "Yeah, there were no WMDs in Iraq, we killed millions just on suspicion, we are sorry", ....... what respect for (foreign) life should one expect from that Nation?

i have always respected the American way of life (the people), criticized the policies only, but after this episode and the blind justifications of this shameful act by both the goras and wannabe goras, i would treat Yankistan as a whole from now onwards.

Where was the actual and imminent threat to US forces from the individuals massacred in cold blood in that video?

As I said, trigger-happy, war-mongering red-necks.

 

[fd24]

It is not a waste. They have the most sophisticated technologies and they knew exactly what they were doing. It was intentional. They had brought in F-15's for God's sake. What was their role in fighting troglodytes. F-15's only have one PRIMARY function and that is to keep air superiority. Taliban does not have any planes. Pakistan has. So that was the real story.

Lets have a think - firstly i think Santro was being sarcastic about them wasting their $$.
Secondly you are spot on - they knew EXACTLY what they were doing and it doesnt need a genius to tell us that if it had been an accident for godsake why the heck did the pummeling continue for 2 hours. 2 hours of bombing is an eternity. Are they that daft to not see blue on lbue for 2 hours? No - they knew exactly their intention was and they achieved it. Whether it was the hierachy ordering the killings or individual US gun fans - we probably will never know as by now not even the US will remember the true version of events. Time has the power to fade memories - and thats exactly what they want to achieve. Please please keep the borders closed and stop the assistance in any way.

 

[SQ8]

those pilots were simply the tools.. I fault those maniacs who actually ordered that. just like the killing of Tribesmen in the open peace gathering after RD reached USA.

nothing has "Changed" the lunatic warmongers call the shots regading US foreign policy. which is mainly harrasment and invasions.

Just run over similar dialogues as you can see in the vid.. to their reactions when shooting our boys up.
The misuse and abuse of firepower is an understatement when it comes to the US.