US refuses to talk China with India

[BanglaBhoot]

Times of India – February 17, 2014

NEW DELHI: Days before US secretary of stateJohn Kerry touched down in Beijing for his renewed outreach to China, US officials traveled to China to hold high level discussions on South Asia.
There was nothing remarkable in this except for the fact that the US has refused to hold the East Asia dialogue with India for the past year. Through the East Asia dialogue, the US and India discussed issues relating to China and beyond, while India and South Asia are the subjects of discussion with China in the South Asia dialogue.

From mid-2013, sources said the US has been stalling all attempts to hold the East Asia dialogue. Indian officials have even offered to meet in a third country but the new assistant secretary of state Daniel Russell, who took over from Kurt Campbell, met them with stony silence. Many in the Indian system describe this as "strategic inattention" by the Obama administration. It is most strongly manifested in the lack of engagement about Asia. A dialogue on Central Asia has fallen by the wayside as has a dialogue on Africa. A trilateral between India, US and Afghanistan last met around four months ago while a newly-constituted dialogue between the two countries on West Asia has met once.

The US and India still have a trilateral discussion going with Japan. That too would have sunk were it not for the efforts of Japan and India to keep it afloat. Some in the US, looking for a way to kick-start relations with India, have toyed with the idea of a trilateral dialogue with China. But Beijing has torpedoed it, deeming it unworthy. But Beijing has not been averse to holding a trilateral with India and Russia on Afghanistan.

Washington sources said Russell was not as interested in the dialogue with India as his predecessor was. Campbell was credited with instituting what many felt was the most productive engagement between India and the US. This was driven, sources said, by the interest of former secretary of state Hillary Clinton to the India relationship. With her departure and Campbell's, the India file has no A-list supporter in the Obama cabinet. Washington sources said Obama was immersed in the domestic agenda, and secretary of state John Kerry in the Middle East despite last week's visit to China. With vice-president Joe Biden concentrating on the China relationship, it only leaves the US defence department taking an interest in India.

National security advisor Susan Rice, in her remarks to the Aspen Institute in Washington last week, said, "India is essential to America's broader engagement with Asia, where many of our national interests converge. We look forward to enhancing the ways that India's Look East policy and America's rebalance to Asia can be mutually reinforcing." With India entering election season and the US battling myriad issues elsewhere, such remarks risk turning into platitudes.

US refuses to talk China with India - The Times of India

 

[Genesis]

pivot to Asia. American plot to contain China, not militarily mind you, but economically. There's talk of increase speed and presence of TPP and TTIP. Pretty much make WTO irrelevant and make the bar too high for China to join and thus keep China out of the loop and thus contain Chinese economic development.

The Chinese leaders are not taking this laying down. The opening of Shanghai free trade zone, further approval of 12 more including Tianjin, and Guandong. In these zones every year the regulations will change based on a year in review.

Same strict regulations in terms of economic, copy right and other laws that other international firms subject to the Chinese firms will also be subjected to in these zones.

Instead of the party telling you what you could, the party will say what you couldn't and anything else is fair game. Free exchange of the yuan, and much much more, for now. There's been talk it is a dud, but in fact the party is unsure of how to proceed without affecting too much of the country. This is a risky move and if unsuccessful could be catastrophic. But the determination is there. The opening of Shenzhen was also a slow process, but we are in 2014 and no one remembers that anymore.


So the question for Indians is, is you economy robust enough to directly compete with all the developed economies and a few developing countries who are American allies? Are you willing and capable of liberating the economy like China without crashing it, due to the immaturity of the Indian economy(or maybe it is mature, I'm not too sure)?

Keep in mind India also has 1+ billion people and will one day post a challenge to the US, probably, the US sees it now.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

What, apart from the USA molesting an Indian female diplomat, and threatening trade sanctions against India?

Or the unending coverage of Indian rape stories in the Western media?

The current cabinet in America don't seem to care, they were more friendly to India under the Republicans.

 

[Audio]

liberating the economy like China

lol.....chi bot acting all righteous here.

 

[Kompromat]

pivot to Asia. American plot to contain China, not militarily mind you, but economically. There's talk of increase speed and presence of TPP and TTIP. Pretty much make WTO irrelevant and make the bar too high for China to join and thus keep China out of the loop and thus contain Chinese economic development.

The Chinese leaders are not taking this laying down. The opening of Shanghai free trade zone, further approval of 12 more including Tianjin, and Guandong. In these zones every year the regulations will change based on a year in review.

Same strict regulations in terms of economic, copy right and other laws that other international firms subject to the Chinese firms will also be subjected to in these zones.

Instead of the party telling you what you could, the party will say what you couldn't and anything else is fair game. Free exchange of the yuan, and much much more, for now. There's been talk it is a dud, but in fact the party is unsure of how to proceed without affecting too much of the country. This is a risky move and if unsuccessful could be catastrophic. But the determination is there. The opening of Shenzhen was also a slow process, but we are in 2014 and no one remembers that anymore.


So the question for Indians is, is you economy robust enough to directly compete with all the developed economies and a few developing countries who are American allies? Are you willing and capable of liberating the economy like China without crashing it, due to the immaturity of the Indian economy(or maybe it is mature, I'm not too sure)?

Keep in mind India also has 1+ billion people and will one day post a challenge to the US, probably, the US sees it now.

Thats spooky, boohooo..

okay, now how do you expect a country to implement such an economic containment when they can't even run their own economy properly and the countries they are trying to rope into PTA policy do see that the US Govt had to shut down because they had no cash left.

America's old days are gone, mainly due to their own stupid handling of Superpowerhood. I want my kids to live in a bipolar/multipolar world.

America has a hammer and when you have a hammer, everything seems like a nail. Americans have no culture (Minus the Indians they ---well we all know what they did to them and their culture), this is the first time they have tasted power so as Putin put it, they are using power like a 'Monkey with a grenade'. They will keep using it until the hammer is broken....they'll have no one to blame except themselves.

 

[Genesis]

Blocked Audio, don't reply to me, but I will state my reason.

1) Can you state the difference between Chinese economy and many other supposed free economies in the world? I know you can't because you have no idea what Chinese economy is like. You are also blind to the fact the at 9+ Trillion economy we have out performed all of the developing world who started earlier than us that had democracy, ON A PER CAPITA BASES, I guess that's done on what? Luck? Communist plot?

2) Can you name the difference of policy between China going forward and others going forward? How much China allows in China relative to others not developed economies?

You bring no facts and no arguments to these discussions, just trolling. We have nothing to say.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Thats spooky, boohooo..

okay, now how do you expect a country to implement such an economic containment when they can't even run their own economy properly and the countries they are trying to rope into PTA policy do see that the US Govt had to shut down because they had no cash left.

America's old days are gone, mainly due to their own stupid handling of Superpowerhood. I want my kids to live in a bipolar/multipolar world.

America has a hammer and when you have a hammer, everything seems like a nail. Americans have no culture, this is the first time they have tasted power so as Putin pu it, they are using power like a 'Monkey with a grenade'. They will keep using it until the hammer is broken....they'll have no one to blame except themselves.

This is very true.

On the other hand, we must also never underestimate them. They are a superpower for a reason, they are experts at "playing the game". They play countries off each other, they play factions off each other.

Such an adversary, with such capabilities, must always be regarded carefully.

 

[Kompromat]

This is very true.

On the other hand, we must also never underestimate them. They are a superpower for a reason, they are experts at "playing the game". They play countries off each other, they play factions off each other.

Such an adversary, with such capabilities, must always be regarded carefully.

• You need to make friends not allies.
  
  Pakistanis for instance consider China to be a friend but US to be an ally. The difference is visible for everyone to see. opposition to China in Pakistani society is virtually non existent. Replicate that model on the rest of the world.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

They are excluding India simply because they know India doesn't like being "out of the loop". The US is going to band as much countries together behind the "China is taking over the South China Sea and you had better wake up and join hands on this" and intentionally leave India out. They are going to play the "India you not dependable and you waste time on petty things". To get "in the loop" India will make a concession. My guess is a joint naval operations and joint base agreement with the other countries (and the other countries will demand US naval rights too)

Then the US solves two problems in one stroke.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

lol.....chi bot acting all righteous here.

Shut up chi bot lol

LOL, look at the quality of these posts.

No substance at all, the only thing you can do is refer to Chinese people as "Chi bots".

Though it's pretty par for the course for the Indian members here such as yourself.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You are a liar, you mean everything?

That's right, he's nothing but a liar.

In fact, Private sector Chinese companies like Lenovo are #1 in the entire world.

BBC News - Chinese PC maker Lenovo posts record profits and sales

Lenovo, the world's largest PC maker, has posted record third-quarter profit on higher sales of laptops and mobile devices in emerging markets.

Even in Audio's own country India, Lenovo is the #1 PC maker there as well.

 

[Kompromat]

That's right, he's nothing but a liar.

In fact, Private sector Chinese companies like Lenovo are #1 in the entire world.

BBC News - Chinese PC maker Lenovo posts record profits and sales



Even in Audio's own country India, Lenovo is the #1 PC maker there as well.

He can't see because he is on a holiday right now. I just kissed him goodbye.

 

[Edison Chen]

That's right.

In fact, Private sector Chinese companies like Lenovo are #1 in the entire world.

BBC News - Chinese PC maker Lenovo posts record profits and sales



Even in Audio's own country India, Lenovo is the #1 PC maker there as well.

Yes, Lenovo, Huawei, ZTE....Because of Lenovo's PC business grow rapidly and grab so much market share, Sony decided to quit PC industry....

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

He can't see because he is on a holiday right now. I just kissed him goodbye.

And with that, the quality of the forum just jumped upwards by a sizeable amount.

Seriously though, 90% of that Indian's posts were nothing except: "stupid chi bot, lol... idiot chi bot... lol".

Gone are the days when these trolls at least tried to put forward a semi-coherent argument.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

India knows verywell that it's no

They are excluding India simply because they know India doesn't like being "out of the loop". The US is going to band as much countries together behind the "China is taking over the South China Sea and you had better wake up and join hands on this" and intentionally leave India out. They are going to play the "India you not dependable and you waste time on petty things". To get "in the loop" India will make a concession. My guess is a joint naval operations and joint base agreement with the other countries (and the other countries will demand US naval rights too)

Then the US solves two problems in one stroke.

Join naval operation with US mean Indian navy will have take order from U.S and not the other way around and not only that U.S can dictate Indian navy in India Ocean since the operation can cover from SCS to Indian Ocean, this like invite wolf into the house..and possibly that U.S will demand base in India as pretext to support naval operation. Make concession just to be kept in loop about China is pretty cheap geopolitcal dividen, why India want to be a slave and take order from U.S as Japan did when itself can be master on it own?