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oh please, as if hacking and espionage is something new for these 2 rivals. As citizens of the US, it would serve you better if you guys were to actually look into the content of those hacked e-mails because they expose the criminality and corruption of the Clinton machine, DNC or foundation, take your pick.

So it's okay for a foreign country to hack the servers of a political party of another foreign country? If this happens to India, would you be saying the same? And did Russia really do this out of the welfare for Americans? No. It did it to support its own interests, and one of those interests is to have Trump in power instead of Clinton? Why? May be Trump will be Russia's useful idiot.

fair enough, everyone has their pov but apart from the rumors, what exactly about Trump is it that bothers you when it comes to Russia ?

It's just not about Russia, I dislike Trump completely. He is incoherent. Short-tempered. Ill-informed. Someone sophisticated like Putin will eat him alive.

Clinton is on record and doubles down on her 'no fly zone' idea every time when asked/speaking about it, I fear that might lead to greater conflict between the world's 2 biggest nuclear armed states. She's a fucking neocon warhawk proxy jihadist loving saudi money grabbing corrupt two faced bitch, a danger to the planet.

Both Clinton and Trump are horrible people and should not be president, but all things being equal, I would rather have Clinton face off with Putin rather than Trump. That Putin dislikes Clinton is all I need to know.

bu-but Trump says mean things :( ?

Clinton might be a liar, but Trump is a fool. I'll take a liar over a fool any day.
 
Clinton might be a liar, but Trump is a fool. I'll take a liar over a fool any day.
Trump is a fool AND a liar! That may make him more dangerous than Hillary but also much easier to impeach in case of misbehavior (because a fool will be more careless than Clinton in hiding his tracks) and thus remove from office.
 
So it's okay for a foreign country to hack the servers of a political party of another foreign country?
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If this happens to India, would you be saying the same? And did Russia really do this out of the welfare for Americans? No. It did it to support its own interests, and one of those interests is to have Trump in power instead of Clinton? Why? May be Trump will be Russia's useful idiot.
I tried to explain earlier, the hacking etc isn't new, happens 24/7, all major powers hack/snoop in on each other, even allies aren't spared.

What evidence is there that it's Russia who is behind the wikileaks, and even if you have evidence (which nobody will ever have a way to verify, we'll just have to take some US govt agencies' word on it), why ignore the incriminating content ?

She stole the nomination from Sanders, colluded with media corporations hosting the debates, takes money from terror sponsoring states, pays to rig the polls, she sure wanted to rig the Palestinian election a decade ago.. destabilized the middle east, pro muslim brotherhood, pro syrian rebel, destroyed Libya..

and, because you didn't answer earlier, I'll ask again..

what specifically is it that you think Trump will do that will hurt the US and that makes him a "useful idiot" for Russia ?

Both Clinton and Trump are horrible people and should not be president
bs, that's just the trendy politically correct acceptable thing to say. Anyone who would bother zooming out of the minutia of media sensationalism of mean tweets etc and focus on the big issues will see that Trump is common sense while she will be a disaster. (ww3 is in her manifesto)

I would rather have Clinton face off with Putin rather than Trump. That Putin dislikes Clinton is all I need to know.
you'd have to be a fool to believe that he's a great fan of Trump, and a bigger fool to not want to give peace a chance.
 
It will be an interesting night, guys, and don't forget
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POLITICS 2016 ELECTION DAY

A Viewer's Guide: What to Watch on Election Night

by CARRIE DANN

The 2016 election has been a wild ride from the very start, and Election Night promises to be a whirlwind of exit polls, anecdotes from polling places, concerns about voter suppression or fraud and a cascade of results beginning at 7 p.m. ET.

5 p.m. ET: Exit polls

At 5 p.m. ET, news network number-crunchers will get their first peek at early exit polls. Exit polls are surveys based on interviews of voters leaving their polling places. The exit polls provide the most complete picture of voter attitudes on Election Day. Keep your eyes peeled for what the early exit poll data show us about how voters are feeling about the direction of the country and the big themes both candidates have been pushing.

7 p.m. ET: The first results

Now it gets really interesting! Six states have a FINAL poll close at 7 p.m.: Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, South Carolina, Vermont and Virginia. Here are some key things to watch:

  • Positive early numbers in Virginia would be a great sign for Hillary Clinton, whose consistent advantage in the traditionally purple Commonwealth has been a significant part of her overall swing state advantage heading into the election. Keep in mind that the voter-rich DC suburbs may take some time to count votes, though.
  • For a good early indicator of how the Trump effect may be factoring into down-ballot races, keep an eye on VA-10, where incumbent Republican Rep. Barbara Comstock is in a tight race with Democrat LuAnn Bennett in a district with a lot of affluent suburban voters who might not be big fans of Trump.
  • Georgia, which could be far closer than in previous elections, is a particularly important state to watch: Look at how big minority turnout here was, and keep an eye on county results in Atlanta's affluent suburbs, where Trump could have turned off the high education white voters he would need to hold off a big Clinton surge.
  • Indiana's Senate race between former Democratic Sen. and Gov. Evan Bayh and Republican Todd Young pits experience and high name ID against GOP-led change. It's looking like a close race.
7:30 p.m. ET: Two biggies: North Carolina and Ohio

  • In the Tarheel State, keep an eye on population centers around Raleigh and Charlotte to see if Clinton is reaching or surpassing Barack Obama's 2008 margins (He narrowly won North Carolina in 2008 but lost to Mitt Romney in 2012.)
  • Don't miss the Senate race in North Carolina either; the match-up between incumbent Republican Richard Burr and Democrat Deborah Ross could be one of the closest in the country.
  • Ohio's relatively low share of college-educated white voters could make it a ripe pickup for Trump. Watch Clinton's margins in key swing areas like Hamilton County.
8 p.m. ET: Florida, and more Clinton firewall states

More than a dozen states have final poll closings now, but here are the most important ones: Florida, New Hampshire and Pennsylvania. All three have close presidential contests as well as Republican Senate incumbents fighting to hang on to their jobs.

  • Florida's famed I-4 corridor (running horizontally through the state between Orlando and Tampa) will be one of the top regions to watch.
  • In Pennsylvania, keep an eye on the Philadelphia suburbs — places like Bucks and Chester Counties. If Clinton runs up the score there, it'll be exceptionally difficult for Trump to swing things his way in other parts of the state.
  • Like Pennsylvania, New Hampshire is a firewall state for Clinton that could help insure against Trump wins in states like Nevada or Iowa.
  • Keep an eye on the competitive Senate races: New Hampshire's Kelly Ayotte vs. Maggie Hassan; Florida's Marco Rubio vs. Patrick Murphy; and Pennsylvania's Pat Toomey vs. Katie McGinty. In all of these races, watch how the Republican incumbents perform compared to Trump; they'll probably need to outstrip him by a pretty good clip.
  • Missouri's presidential contest is looking less close these days, but its Senate race between incumbent Republican Roy Blunt and Democrat Jason Kander could go down to the wire. This is one case where a good Trump performance could buoy a Republican to victory
9 p.m. ET: Watch the Rust Belt — and demographics are destiny in Arizona?

If Clinton is headed towards a historic sweep, we'll have a better idea of how big it is once we hit the 9 p.m. poll closings. If Trump is going to take things down to the wire, we'll know by watching the Rust Belt, too. A series of Midwestern, usually blue-leaning states close at this hour: Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin. Colorado, a big insurance-policy state for Team Clinton, closes as well, along with typically blue New Mexico.

  • Trump has hoped to make states like Wisconsin and Michigan competitive, predicting that a surge of white working class voters who had previously stayed home on Election Day will flock to support him. Trump will almost certainly have to flip one of these blue states red to get to 270 electoral votes.
  • The demographics-are-destiny crowd will have a lot to look for starting now, when both Arizona and Texas close. Despite both states' GOP leanings, Democrats hope that the growing share of Latinos in both states can tilt them purple. (Keep in mind that Arizona tends not to release votes til around 10 p.m. ET, though.)
  • Clinton has been polling well in Colorado, but Trump also looked to make a late play in the state. Watch whether Latino turnout approaches 2008 and 2012 levels early, and keep an eye on the split among younger voters.
  • An interesting House race to watch in Colorado is Denver-area incumbent Republican Mike Coffman, who's distanced himself from Trump in this growing Latino area.
10 p.m. ET: Suspense in… Utah?

Don't let the kids go to bed yet! No matter what happens, there's plenty of suspense with later races.

  • For example, if Evan McMullin bests Trump and Clinton in Utah, he would be the first third party candidate to win a state since 1968.
  • If it's a very good night for down-ballot Democrats, Nevada's Senate race could be what clinches the majority for them; if it's a good night for Republicans, it could give the GOP assurance that they'll keep the gavel.
  • Another 10 p.m. ET poll close: Iowa, which could be Trump's best swing state of the bunch.
11 p.m. ET: Lights out in every state but Alaska

The five states that close at 11 p.m. ET — California, Hawaii, Idaho, Oregon and Washington — are all solid Republican or Democratic states. But there could be some excitement in California, where House Democrats hope to oust a handful of Republicans who have been clinging to congressional districts despite growing Latino and college-educated populations.
 
So this magazine plainly assumes Trump supporters are descendants of poor folks whose grandparents used outhouses; i.e., they aren't members or supporters of the civilized elite. A very British and very un-American attitude, yes?
The magazine is not assuming, they are quoting opinion poll of Trump’s supporters, that's what his supporters believe.

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A new national survey finds that Trump supporters overwhelmingly believe that life in America is worse than it was 50 years ago “for people like them.” Fully 81% of registered voters who support Trump say life has gotten worse, compared with just 11% who say it has gotten better (6% say it is about the same). Link






Melania is very angry at people who bully others on the Internet.
Look, whose wife is talking. Dumb, dumb, dumb! :lol:



 
Voters Express Disgust Over U.S. Politics in New Times/CBS Poll

JONATHAN MARTIN, DALIA SUSSMAN and MEGAN THEE-BRENAN NOV. 3, 2016


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Hillary Clinton in Las Vegas on Wednesday. Credit Doug Mills/The New York Times


An overwhelming majority of voters are disgusted by the state of American politics, and many harbor doubts that either major-party nominee can unite the country after a historically ugly presidential campaign, according to the final pre-election New York Times/CBS News Poll.

In a grim preview of the discontent that may cloud at least the outset of the next president’s term, Hillary Clinton and Donald J. Trump are seen by a majority of voters as unlikely to bring the country back together after this bitter election season.

With more than eight in 10 voters saying the campaign has left them repulsed rather than excited, the rising toxicity threatens the ultimate victor. Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic candidate, and Mr. Trump, the Republican nominee, are seen as dishonest and viewed unfavorably by a majority of voters.


While her advantage has narrowed since mid-October, Mrs. Clinton still has an edge in the survey because of a commanding advantage among women and nonwhite voters. She has the support of 45 percent of likely voters while Mr. Trump has 42 percent. Gary Johnson, the Libertarian nominee, has slipped to 5 percent, and Jill Stein, the Green Party candidate, is at 4 percent.

If she wins, Mrs. Clinton will enter the White House to face immediate governing challenges not only from the deep partisanship ruling Washington but also from a large number of Mr. Trump’s supporters who say they are not prepared to accept the results.

After weeks of Mr. Trump’s accusations that the election is “rigged,” a little more than six in 10 of his supporters say they will accept the results as legitimate if he loses. More than a quarter of Mr. Trump’s supporters say they will probably not accept the outcome if Mrs. Clinton is declared the winner, and nearly 40 percent of them say they have little or no confidence that Americans’ votes will be counted properly.

Republican anger is directed not only at Mrs. Clinton or the electoral process. About as many Republican voters say Mr. Trump’s candidacy has been bad for the party as believe his campaign has been positive for Republicans, an extraordinary divide over their own standard-bearer on the eve of the election.

As Republicans face the possibility of their third consecutive presidential loss, their own voters overwhelmingly acknowledge the party is facing a schism: 85 percent of Republican voters said the party was divided, and only 14 percent said it was united.

But Republicans cannot even agree on who is to blame for the division, though they largely believe Mr. Trump has been the impetus for the breach, according to some follow-up interviews.

“I think Donald Trump has definitely divided the party,” said Sheila Wagner, 79, a Republican from Redmond, Wash. She said she had already marked her ballot for Mrs. Clinton, adding: “When he first declared he was going to run, I thought it was a joke. I just couldn’t believe anyone would favor him.”

Yet other Republicans point the finger at Republicans who have refused to support Mr. Trump.

“The old school, quote unquote, the Bushes, the people who have been around a long time, aren’t supporting Trump, and that’s creating division,” said Nora Reinhardt, 66, a farmer from Holt, Mo. “Some Republicans, because of comments Trump has made, which I grant are uncouth and certainly not politically correct, have found they can’t support him, although I think some of those people are coming around at this point.”

She said she was supporting Mr. Trump because she agreed with his policy positions.

Whatever their reasons, and despite how many of them think Mr. Trump has been detrimental to the party, more than eight in 10 Republican voters are falling in line behind their nominee.

The nationwide telephone poll was conducted with 1,333 registered voters from Oct. 28 to Nov. 1 on cellphones and landlines. The margin of sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points for all voters.

More than 22 million Americans had already cast their ballots when the poll was taken, and roughly one in five likely voters who participated said they had already voted.

National polling averages showed a growing lead for Mrs. Clinton in mid-October after the release of the “Access Hollywood” recording from 2005 in which Mr. Trump spoke crudely about women. As women from his past came out over the next weeks to accuse him of groping and forcibly kissing them, his poll numbers dipped.

Yet after a rough few weeks, enthusiasm among Mr. Trump’s supporters has rebounded: 52 percent now say they are very enthusiastic about voting. Enthusiasm among Mrs. Clinton’s supporters has been flat since September: 47 percent say they are very enthusiastic to vote.

Mrs. Clinton holds a 14-point advantage over her opponent among women, while Mr. Trump leads among men by 11 points. White women, who supported Republican candidates in the last three presidential elections, are now evenly split.

There is also a wide class divide: Mrs. Clinton has the support of 48 percent of whites with college degrees — a constituency that historically votes for a Republican presidential nominee — while Mr. Trump is backed by 41 percent from the same voters. But Mr. Trump receives 55 percent from whites without college degrees, while Mrs. Clinton captures just 30 percent from that group.

Majorities of voters say that Mr. Trump is not qualified to be president and that he lacks the temperament to serve in that office.


Last Friday, when the director of the F.B.I., James B. Comey, sent a letter to Congress about a renewed inquiry concerning Mrs. Clinton’s emails, Mr. Trump seized on the chance to shift campaign’s tenor and focus on the controversy over her handling of emails when she was secretary of state.

The Times/CBS poll began hours after Mr. Comey’s letter became public. Most voters who were contacted said they had heard about the development. More voters said they were aware of accusations that Mr. Trump had made unwanted sexual advances toward several women.

Yet about six in 10 voters over all said the 11th-hour disclosures about each candidate would make no real difference in their votes. However, more people said the allegations about Mr. Trump were likely to negatively affect their votes than those who said the new email developments would discourage them from voting for Mrs. Clinton.

Four in 10 likely voters said Mr. Trump’s behavior toward women made them less likely to support him while fewer, one-third, said the newest development in the F.B.I. investigation into Mrs. Clinton’s emails had that effect.

Also bolstering Mrs. Clinton, and the possibility of a third straight Democratic term in the White House, is President Obama’s popularity. Fifty-two percent of registered voters approve of the job Mr. Obama is doing, an increase from earlier this year.

While Mr. Obama’s standing has increased, the campaign has taken a toll on Mrs. Clinton’s image. Only 32 percent of voters say she is honest and trustworthy, and a quarter of Democrats and nearly six in 10 independents do not think she will be able to unite the country if she wins.


“The campaign has gotten uglier and uglier,” said Michael Pappas, a real estate broker in Knoxville, Tenn., who is a Republican. “It’s been about mudslinging and attacking personalities instead of talking about issues, talking about how we can help our country move forward and succeed.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/us/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-poll.html
 
Awesome explanation by Michael Moore. Explains it all in a nutshell. Angry people make unwise choices, but angry and malicious people make intentional unwise choices. Just my 2 cents.

 
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Is Nate Silver right?


Most polling models show Hillary Clinton winning easily. Why is 538 more cautious?

By Steven Shepard 11/04/16

Polling averages and forecast models are supposed to bring order to the chaos, put outlier polls in proper perspective and provide a sober, unbiased picture of the state of the presidential race.

So why are they all over place in the final days, with some models asserting a Hillary Clinton victory is a near-certainty, and others giving Donald Trump a real chance at winning?
The HuffPost Pollster model, on the other hand, is far more confident in Clinton’s chances, giving her an 98.1 percent chance of winning as of Friday morning. It’s based on HuffPost Pollster’s polling charts — which, unlike RealClearPolitics, is not a simple average of the polls but is designed to make sense of seemingly contradictory results by discounting, though not dismissing, outlier polls.

“The advantage of that is that the model looks for the most likely polling estimate and doesn't change drastically when there's an outlier poll — whereas a straight average will move toward the outlier,” said Natalie Jackson, the senior polling editor at The Huffington Post. “The disadvantage is that it's slower to pick up on changes in polls; it requires a few polls showing a change in the trend before it will reflect a new trend. That's what we're seeing now — some polls are less positive for Clinton, but others are basically in line with what the trends have been saying.

“Since the evidence is conflicting, the model sticks with past trends,” Jackson continued in an email. “It's a trade-off in letting outliers and individual polls affect the aggregate, versus requiring more evidence to change a trend. Right now, we're on the latter side. Of course, we’ll assess how that worked after the election.”

That approach — in addition to other decisions about which polls are included — has also led to a massive divergence between the nation’s top two polling aggregation sites: RealClearPolitics’ and HuffPost Pollster’s polling charts.

As of late Friday morning, Clinton led by 1.7 points in a head-to-head matchup with Trump nationally, according to the RealClearPolitics average. But Clinton’s lead in the HuffPost Pollster model was a far more robust 6.1 points.

There’s always been some differences in the forecast models, but the models have pulled apart rather than converge as the election has drawn closer — in large part because of Trump’s late surge.

On the day of the third Clinton-Trump debate on October 19, the FiveThirtyEight model had Clinton an 87.3-percent chance of winning, more comparable to the Upshot’s 92 percent, and Daily Kos Elections’ 95 percent.

But since Trump’s polling recovery over the past two weeks, Clinton has slid more in some models than others.

The FiveThirtyEight model showed Clinton’s win-probability slipping nearly 22 points from its October high. Silver said that better reflects the volatility in the race — both in the most recent swing in the polls toward Trump, along with the significant number of voters still undecided or lining up behind minor-party candidates.

“[E]verything depends on one's assumptions, but I think that our assumptions — a Clinton lead, sure, but high uncertainty — has repeatedly been validated by the evidence we've seen over the course of the past several months,” Silver said. “The idea that she's a prohibitive, 95 percent-plus favorite is hard to square with polling that has frequently shown 5- or 6-point swings within the span of a couple weeks, given that she only leads by 3 points or so now.”

But other models are far more stable, confident in the balance of public polling, which still shows Clinton ahead.

“[The HuffPost Pollster model is] designed to get more certain as we get closer to the election, so we're seeing more certainty within the last few days,” Jackson said. “We have uncertainty built into the model for undecideds in the polls and the event that the polls could be wrong, but (clearly) not much. Basically, the approach is that we trust the polls, and if they go down we're going down, too.” Link



 
right, so they're all either poor and dumb, or they're klansmen. :disagree:

Trump might surprise a few people yet with his depth of support among all demographics.
 

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