US, Pakistan need to be honest about differences: senator

[GumNaam]

try this for honesty on our differences mister senator!
WE
DON'T
AND
WON'T
TRUST
YOU
.
.
.
.
E
V
E
R
!!!

save yourself a lot of humiliation and stop trying!

 

[Umair Nawaz]

That is what i am saying jani let the relation be only economical in nature do not get involved in military or strategic partnerships they burn all they shake hands with well except for Israel

im not saying to make it military or strategic either, read my post again lallay!

Their government even ignores the capitalists to them their economic policy is a reflection of their security narrative we should approach US with cautious optimism

Hahaha lalay yr terribly wrong in it.....If u think that their defence and oil companies have no share in shaping their foreign policy then yr very wrong......But now its the companies like Apple, iphone, twitter and facebook...their owners are today joining the trillion dollar club! tu kiss dunya main betha ha lalay! Abb ye log hain jo shape kr ahy hain innki economic policy orr main bhi iss he economic policy ki baat kar raha hun defence ya strategic nahi.

This is what i meant when i said that make this relationship valuable in the MODERN DIGITAL AGE!!!
Bill Gates is already pledging to invest in IT and Startup sectors too....dont that give u a clue? Meri jaan, ye Google waly, Microsoft waly or facebook etc etc waly pagal hain Pakistani talent ko attain karny k lea!

Use it for our advantage! and for the rest, make them open their factories and manufacturing centers like Chinese in Pakistan as well.

This is the gist of my original post, that way we will get the maximum benefit, same way India is getting benefit exact same way, we r a 5th largest country with little to no market competition, with even cheaper labour and resources as compared to india........We can be a heaven for them viz a viz india....use this power potential, this is what iam saying. Takay jaisy india blackmail innhain krta ha pakistan k against yaha tak k S400 ka wavier b ly leta ha or Chahbahar or Irani oil ka bhi......hum bhi ye kaam kar sakty hain inn k against.

Every action with US needs to be taken with a backup plan in place you cant trust them just in 2 years they have broken countless accords even with countries who were their ww2 allies at one point in time

I agree 100% but will like to remind u in same tone, they havnt been able to do much against india, q k india ny innko apny neeche lagaya hua ha, humne ya unn ww2 allies ny nahi.

Wish we could sadly its our neighbour you cant change neighbours

Lalay i was saying that k hum Amreeka ko rok sakty hain pabandian Pakistan py lagany sy jo wo zaroor lagaye ga Afghanistan sy nikalny k baad in North Korea style.......

Orr wo above mentioned tareekon sy innhain roka bhi ja sakta ha, iss waqt ki innko hamari zaroorat ka faida utha karr.....khud socho k agr hum trump ko he offer kar dain k wo apna zaati business Pakistan main bhi khol ly ya invest kr ly to wo phir q hum py pabandia lagaye ga ya kisi ko lagany dy ga?

Tumhain pta ha k Zardari jab corruption kara tha, to wo apni corruption ko chupany k lea dusro ko bhi apny sath milla leta tha unnhain paisa dy kr or incentives dy krr.......yahe kaam hum Foreign Policy main q nahi kr sakty?
Specially with America and later with EU?

When it comes to business learn from Hindu Banya!

In statecraft the morality takes a backseat na biwi na bacha na baap barra na maiya, the whole thing is that sabse barrha rupaiya! this is the banya way!

Lallay, abb samjha k nai?

Amreeki aik bewakuf qoum ha or lalchy bhi.....isska faida uthao!
Paisa phank tamasha dekh!

 

[Zarvan]

pta ha, but US ko focus na karo orr apni baat karo, US ko Pakistan ki zarurat zyada ha Pakistan sy uss ko.....ye capitalist hain orr ye mulk waha k billionaires or trillionaires sy chalta ha.....hum Capitalism or capitalist greed ko innkay khilaf isstimal kar sakty hain. read post#12 for details.

USA only needs Pakistan until they are in Afghanistan after that forget anything from them

 

[Umair Nawaz]

USA only needs Pakistan until they are in Afghanistan after that forget anything from them

read post#12 buddy...mujhe pta ha iss baat ka. orr abb ye bhi sun log k wo afghanistan sy nikalny k baad humpe sanctions laga dy ga North Korean style!

 

[Zarvan]

read post#12 buddy...mujhe pta ha iss baat ka. orr abb ye bhi sun log k wo afghanistan sy nikalny k baad humpe sanctions laga dy ga North Korean style!

Sanctions are doubtful as they know we can reverse their gains in Afghanistan as well as many other places in the world

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Sanctions are doubtful as they know we can reverse their gains in Afghanistan as well as many other places in the world

we cant, we have lost our influence severely....specially in the World!
If we hadnt, these anti Pakistan terrorist wont be alive today who r living throughout the world.......Heck we cant do anything about the TTP/BLA leadership and training camps in Afghanistan even.

Yr fooling yourself buddy! ISI is all talk no respite, just a bunch of hot air balloons.

We should give America economic incentive too and above all make them invest in our economy like China and like they r doing in India, by taking advantage of the current situation which will benefit us!

 

[Chakar The Great]

Since this was a primarily Pakistan focused gathering so let me focus on the crux of matter which is what Pakistan wants from United States of America, which frankly is far more relevant then to what United States wants from Pakistan given the reality of World and of geopolitics in which we stand today!

What Pakistan will be interested in is the economic, trade based co-operation as well as Transfer of Civilian Industry and Technological co-operation........Military and Counterterrorism etc Pakistan wont be interested in US for it anymore....We already have a robust mechanism and co-operation for that with Regional countries and we r content with it.

What America can do, if it wants good relationship with Pakistan is to look at how our relationship was in 60s, which was multidimensional like the one we have with China today and are building the same type with Russia today as well. It should invest in Pakistan's industrial sector in terms of money and technology so the manufacturing ability of our country gets better and we can be made a regional manufacturing and export hub of their products just as China is doing through CPEC....in future Pakistan will trade by land with India, and greater South and East Asia, Central Asia and Russia as well as Europe through these land based routes as well as MENA region and greater side of Africa.....They should see this as a great potential and invest today for great returns of tomorrow for these investments, Bill Gates is already trying to do that, and in same way invest in science and Research and development to better train and educate the labore in here to work in your factories and companies like its being done in India....Pakistan has started an ambitious project of making making an aviation manufacturing hub in the region, I think the high end American companies also need to see that and same way invest in this field as well...So they can make their commercial airliners in Pakistan and export them to their markets in Asia, Africa or Europe etc....and return make lots of revenue by using our manpower and resources in making them hence saving a lot of hard cash that they will have otherwise invest in US market in labor and resources etc

America, instead of blocking the paths of our recovery from this War in Terror economically like taking our case out of the way in FATF to be greylisted in there as well as stopping IMF to co-operate with us on the conditions which will help our economy and generate revenue for the betterment of our people, America should sincerely and honestly co-operate with us inorder to salvage this relationship among these above mentioned lines.......or else there isnt much incentive for a country as BIG as Pakistan 220 million population, which is 5th largest in the world to continue this what was at best a cold war era relationship which has largely lost its true value in this Modern Digital age.

In short make it worthwhile for Pakistan to truly value this relation which has otherwise past its best! to say the least by putting to bed forever the security and counterterrorism etc.

Very well summarized.

 

[Tom M]

Pakistan has been doing a lot for US for half a century now and therefore you guys have your own reasons and justifications.

Similarly U.S also have their own reasons since they seems to have paid Pakistan for almost all services rendered and even more supported Pak with their status as the super power and UNSC permanent member. But TBH, nothing has damaged U.S-PAK relationship that the entire OBL fiasco.

In my opinion, that was the one important point from which the relationship seriously started going south.

Sanctions are doubtful as they know we can reverse their gains in Afghanistan as well as many other places in the world

While agreeing with you to a certain extend. I bet you never even considered the worst case scenario. What if (which is a very unlikely what if) U.S is seriously considering about hurting Pakistan in case you restore to reverse their gain in Afghanistan or many other places as you have claimed ??

Do you have any idea what it can be like??

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Pakistan has been doing a lot for US for half a century now and therefore you guys have your own reasons and justifications.

Similarly U.S also have their own reasons since they seems to have paid Pakistan for almost all services rendered and even more supported Pak with their status as the super power and UNSC permanent member. But TBH, nothing has damaged U.S-PAK relationship that the entire OBL fiasco.

In my opinion, that was the one important point from which the relationship seriously started going south.



While agreeing with you to a certain extend. I bet you never even considered the worst case scenario. What if (which is a very unlikely what if) U.S is seriously considering about hurting Pakistan in case you restore to reverse their gain in Afghanistan or many other places as you have claimed ??

Do you have any idea what it can be like??

we provided intelligence to America for OBL raid.

 

[Tom M]

we provided intelligence to America for OBL raid.

Might be. But the very presence of Americas most wanted man with family in a villa inside Pakistan soil in itself raises a lot of questions. And it does matter a lot I guess.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Might be. But the very presence of Americas most wanted man with family in a villa inside Pakistan soil in itself raises a lot of questions. And it does matter a lot I guess.

well,,,,who cares really besides America about it in this World? let me remind u that world has 8 billion people and they have evolved enough that they have largely passed American true influence in them, given the new Emerging power centers in the World like China, EU a resurgent Russia etc

And how many of them really care abt OBL saga? none.

Anyways, the point here is that it is America afterall NOT Pakistan who need America, as even Pakistan has moved passed them! So it is upto them. Read my original post in first page post#6.....

This is what iam suggesting! and thats the main point behind my posts and arguments in them to justify that.

 

[Tom M]

well,,,,who cares really besides America about it in this World? let me remind u that world has 8 billion people and they have evolved enough that they have largely passed American true influence in them, given the new Emerging power centers in the World like China, EU a resurgent Russia etc

And how many of them really care abt OBL saga? none.

Anyways, the point here is that it is America afterall NOT Pakistan who need America, as even Pakistan has moved passed them! So it is upto them. Read my original post in first page post#6.....

This is what iam suggesting! and thats the main point behind my posts and arguments in them to justify that.

Well remember one thing for sure.

America don't need Pakistan to any extend that Pakistan need U.S. It is Afghanistan that is the only remaining leaverage for Pakistan. Again, if they decide. On any fine day they will pack their bags and walk out of Afghanistan leaving the country at the mercy of yet another civil war (please don't be under the impression that Afghanistan will be a cake walk for Taliban after that, they will have to fight and earn it).

And who is actually gonna suffer from that yet again ?? Certainly not America.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Well remember one thing for sure.

America don't need Pakistan to any extend that Pakistan need U.S. It is Afghanistan that is the only remaining leaverage for Pakistan. Again, if they decide. On any fine day they will pack their bags and walk out of Afghanistan leaving the country at the mercy of yet another civil war (please don't be under the impression that Afghanistan will be a cake walk for Taliban after that, they will have to fight and earn it).

And who is actually gonna suffer from that yet again ?? Certainly not America.

u really really need to understand the geopolitics better my friend! Orr Pakistan unlike America isnt a country of idiots!

Read post#6, u really really need to read that, Oh BTW Taliban have cancelled the scheduled talks nor have Pakistan any real incentive really to baby sit Americans for these talks as our AIDE, the only real power potential they had has been stopped. So what we r doing right now is doing a favour to America in the first place!

And this is also a good read for you to better understand the situation in the current form.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/mist...mer-envoy-ali-siddiqui-on-pak-us-ties.596409/

It is NOT Pakistan but America only who needs us, and doesnt have any real power potential in long run over us but sanctions individually, while two if UNSC votes r in our side if it took the sanctions route through that which is China and Russia.

Now please read#6 and tell me what u think about my suggestions.

 

[Super Falcon]

And king of begstabber US should be honest of begstabbing pak in time of need

 

[Zarvan]

we cant, we have lost our influence severely....specially in the World!
If we hadnt, these anti Pakistan terrorist wont be alive today who r living throughout the world.......Heck we cant do anything about the TTP/BLA leadership and training camps in Afghanistan even.

Yr fooling yourself buddy! ISI is all talk no respite, just a bunch of hot air balloons.

We should give America economic incentive too and above all make them invest in our economy like China and like they r doing in India, by taking advantage of the current situation which will benefit us!

We haven't lost any influence in fact we are gaining more and more. Things are getting better specially when it comes to influence and making changes so please. USA not interested in economic zone we both can have good Military and Intelligence relations not economic ones