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US & Pakistan Dispute and Tensions over Haqqani group

Hi,

What has happened is that as there is no presence of american troops or ANA on the otherside of the border----when the pak millitary strikes---the taliban just move across the border into afg----that is the major bone of contention between pak and u s---and that is what needs to be brought out in the open on u s channels---.

Yes, and the US says similar things too - that because Pakistan does not go after Haqqanis, they are mounting attacks on the US troops in Afghanistan; after all Pakistan Army too does not have a significant presence on the border.

In the past years the US often used to complain it to Gen. Kayani that the insurgents run back into Pakistan after doing their thing on the ANA or NATO troops, and when the NATO choppers go after them, they are forced to stay on Afghan side of the border while the insurgents easily disappear into Pakistan through the check posts guarded by the Pakistani Army.

It is the same complaint coming from both sides, and the US may be after the Haqqanis for its own specific interests. So what I am asking is, would it not be better for Pakistan too if that network were weakened at least, if not dismantled? They have a history of being partners with the TTP that has harmed Pakistan more than any group.
 
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"The U.S. and Pakistan have not found themselves at this spot before," says Vali Nasr, a professor at Tufts University and a former senior official in the State Department's Afghanistan-Pakistan office. "This is the worst and most dangerous moment in the relationship." The allegations are not necessarily new. Pakistan has been suspected of sponsoring similar acts of violence in Afghanistan in the past. Back then, the U.S. was happy to keep them quiet, Nasr says, as the stakes weren't so high.

Adopting a new approach, the U.S. is prepared to be more confrontational. "This is a strategy that is light on carrot and very heavy on stick," says Nasr. The relationship has been steadily deteriorating since the Raymond Davis affair in late January, when a CIA contractor killed two Pakistani men, sparking weeks long hostilities between the U.S. spy agency and its Pakistani counterpart, the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) directorate. Shedding a patience it pursued in recent years, Washington seems intent on favoring what Nasr describes as "a forthright approach that relies less on private diplomacy or the promise of economic assistance."

It is not clear how Pakistan will react, but will have to move fast to placate domestic opinion. "We have to do something," a senior military official tells TIME. "We are being pushed against the wall. If we don't react, the public opinion will consume us." Like Kayani, the military official denies the charges of official complicity in the attacks on the U.S. Embassy, the Intercontinental Hotel in Kabul and a September 10th truck bomb attack. But the official does acknowledge Pakistan isn't prepared to antagonize the Haqqani network and is looking to deliver them to the negotiating table once the endgame in Afghanistan comes into view.

"What General Kayani tells the Americans when they ask about the Haqqanis," the military official says, "is that no agency in the world will cut off their last contact with them." The arrangement or non-aggression pact, the military official adds, is in place to yield "positive" dividends. In South Waziristan, the Haqqanis' neutrality helped the army move in against the Pakistani Taliban. In Afghanistan, the Pakistan Army hopes that it will be able to deliver the Haqqanis to the negotiating table.

But that ambition may now be in jeopardy. Adm. Mullen said the "Quetta Shura" and the Haqqani Network were not only hurting prospects for security, but also "spoiling possibilities for broader reconciliation." Later, he added that Islamabad's support for these groups "continues to jeopardize Pakistan's opportunity to be a respected and prosperous nation with genuine regional and international influence." The suggestion is that Pakistan could be blocked out of the Afghanistan endgame.
To some observers, that is already happening. "The Pakistanis are not involved in the endgame in Afghanistan," says Nasr, the former senior State Department official, referring to the various backchannels that have opened up in recent months. "Pakistan expects to have a much larger say in Afghanistan, especially southern Afghanistan," says Nasr. "The U.S. is treating Pakistan as an important player, but only equal to the others." The much-coveted role of principal interlocutor is no longer open to Pakistan.

At the moment, Washington is still resisting a possible rupture of relations with Islamabad. For all his criticism, Adm. Mullen also reiterated the need to somehow maintain the alliance. "A flawed and strained engagement with Pakistan is better than disengagement," he said, reflecting on the costs of disengagement in the past. But that does not preclude the possibility of punishing Pakistan through different measures.

Sanctions are not an immediate prospect. "The U.S. cannot quite afford that right now," says Nasr. But by publicizing alleged acts of Pakistani villainy, the ground is being laid for it to be possible in the future. Just in recent months, the U.S. defied Pakistani claims to sovereignty by mounting a covert raid to kill Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, accused the Pakistan military of being responsible for the murder of journalist Saleem Shahzad, and has now laid to a fresh series of charges. These events have helped turn global public opinion against the Pakistan Army, and nudge it closer to pariahdom.

But sanctions, or the withholding of further U.S. aid, are unlikely to coax Pakistan into changing its fundamental strategic thinking. "They're not going to walk away from their interests easily after the first application of pressure from Washington," says Nasr. Indeed, a relationship that has plunged to unprecedented depths could get worse — and more dangerous — still.

If the U.S. resorts to a use of force, Pakistan would be forced to respond. In a fiercely anti-American climate, Kayani and his top generals are already nervous about the mood in the army's middle and lower ranks. Any perceived U.S. aggression would trigger loud demands for retaliation. "If we don't take action," says the military official, "there could be a mutiny. The worse thing that could happen to Pakistan is if the army splits." For the U.S., the demon it knows is still better than the one it does not.


Vali Nasr, is a professor at Tufts University and a former senior official in the State Department's Afghanistan-Pakistan office
 
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Vali Nasr - one of my favorite scholars and Nasr confirms that US is in a very tenuous position in Afghanistan and that it is now reduced to brinkmanship because failure of the entire project is not just conceivable, it is a very real possibility - today Haqqani, tomorrow the Quetta shura, day after that, the transit agreement extended to India, day after that, China out of Pakistan, and Pakistan reduced to a vassal, a transitistan.

I hope the concerned officials will not wait till the very break up of the army is a real threat and will instead embrace this moment, embrace the hostility the US offers, it is a heaven sent opportunity.
 
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Parliament seems indifferent to US pressure: PILDAT

Staff Report

ISLAMABAD: While Pak-US relations face a deepening conflict after the September 13 attack on the US embassy and NATO headquarters in Kabul, scathing criticism and serious charges have been levelled on Pakistan in a mounting chorus from US institutions – from Pentagon to the Central Investigation Agency (CIA) to US Congress and Congressional Committees – parliament and a number of its committees charged with the responsibility to oversee national security, foreign affairs and defence, seem to be indifferent.

As elected public representatives, it is parliament’s responsibility to oversee the country’s foreign and security policies. However, in keeping with its poor tradition of playing no role in a crisis or in influencing a policy, parliament and its committees seem the most unaffected by the challenges Pakistan faces, especially vis-à-vis the disquiet and mounting pressure in Pak-US relations.

On the other hand, committees in the US Congress, especially the Senate Armed Services Committee and the Senate Appropriations Committee, have met since the September 13 Kabul incident with US Defence Secretary Leon E Panetta, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen testifying before the former. The Senate Appropriations Committee reportedly passed a bill making ‘all’ US financial assistance to Pakistan conditional to cooperation against the Haqqani network and other terror groups associated with the al Qaeda.


A look at the dismal performance of the parliamentary committees charged with the responsibility to oversee Pakistan’s national security and defence policies reveals that these committees have failed to even examine the serious issues confronting Pakistan, let alone offer policy advice on behalf of the people of Pakistan. The National Assembly Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, chaired by Awami National Party (ANP) leader, MNA Asfandyar Wali Khan, last met on June 6 just to undergo a call-on by the British ambassador to Afghanistan. Since its formation in 2008, the committee has only met 17 times in three and a half years, out of which the chairman himself was not available to chair 10 of the meetings. The Senate Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, chaired by Senator Salim Saifullah, has not yet met after the current crisis and since its formation in May 2010 has held only 11 meetings.

The Parliamentary Committee on National Security, chaired by Senator Raza Rabbani held its last meeting on August 18. Since its formation in November 2008, the committee has met 35 times, with all meetings held in-camera. The National Assembly Standing Committee on Defence, chaired by MNA Dr Azra Fazal Pechuho, last met as a full committee on June 29 to discuss the attack on the PNS Mehran, a month after the attack. The committee only met 27 times since its delayed formation in February 2009 after the 2008 general election.

The Senate Standing Committee on Defence and Defence Production, chaired by Senator Javed Ashraf, held its last meeting on August 1 on a matter relating to the Pakistan International Airlines (PIA). It has held 26 meetings in all since its formation in July 2009.


The Pakistan Institute of Legislative Development and Transparency (PILDAT) demanded that these committees meet immediately and start discussing the options Pakistan has. The committees should seek relevant expertise from across Pakistan and parliament needs to take a lead on deciding the country’s policy choices.
 
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Vali Nasr - one of my favorite scholars and Nasr confirms that US is in a very tenuous position in Afghanistan and that it is now reduced to brinkmanship because failure of the entire project is not just conceivable, it is a very real possibility - today Haqqani, tomorrow the Quetta shura, day after that, the transit agreement extended to India, day after that, China out of Pakistan, and Pakistan reduced to a vassal, a transitistan.

I hope the concerned officials will not wait till the very break up of the army is a real threat and will instead embrace this moment, embrace the hostility the US offers, it is a heaven sent opportunity.

I hope the same as well...:)
 
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I, on the other hand, contrary to advice of the editorial, would suggest that Pakistan stay the course and pursue it's interest with vigor and confidence.

........................................

My advice would have been, were I confident that there was a will in Pakistan, to send a clear message to the US
"Yaad kakhna, Agaar Pakistan mei Amriki aag laagaygi, tau jo kuch Amrika ka is munteqe mei bacha hai, lut jaiga" -- Pakistan may lose US aid and even trade, what the US would lose would be immeasurable.
If I were confident of a will in Pakistan, that is.

What you hope for - the will in Pakistan to pursue its national interest - will be found sorely lacking, I am sorry to say clearly, what you merely imply.
 
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What you hope for - the will in Pakistan to pursue its national interest - will be found sorely lacking, I am sorry to say clearly, what you merely imply.


I fear what you are saying may well be the truth, but I have hope (drowning men clutching at straws? yeah, I know, but it's always a dare) but I really think the US will not win this one.
 
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I fear what you are saying may well be the truth, but I have hope (drowning men clutching at straws? yeah, I know, but it's always a dare) but I really think the US will not win this one.

It will be clear soon enough.
 
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One question: Is Pakistan's perceived "national interest" consistent with the will of Allah? I don't think so. So, Pakistan may pursue its perceived national interest, but, it will fail because what it pursues is not the correct path of Allah. Pakistan is misguided in its perception of its true national interest.
 
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What you hope for - the will in Pakistan to pursue its national interest - will be found sorely lacking, I am sorry to say clearly, what you merely imply.

Vcheng,

You literally killed them---they really don't have any national interest---if they had--they would have hung all the al qaeda members on light poles---pakistanis---my countrymen---so ruthless and so innocent they are---have no identity---a nation that is at a loss---a nation in search of its true self----doesn't know if they are a PARTRIDGE or a QUAIL---.

Pakistan needs to stand up in front of the u s like israel does---. The americans have no respect for weak pu-ss's---pakistan must not allow itself to be bit-ch slapped by american generals and mr Panetta at will---. This ar-se kissing must stop----.

The problem with pakistan is that they don't know what to say when and how to say and who will say it---of all of these things---the most important one is ---- who is going to say it----.

Two people say exactly the same thing----but one's point comes across stronger and the others makes not much of an impact. Pakistan needs to learn this art---pakistan need to find that spokes person.
 
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Vcheng,

You literally killed them---they really don't have any national interest---if they had--they would have hung all the al qaeda members on light poles---pakistanis---my countrymen---so ruthless and so innocent they are---have no identity---a nation that is at a loss---a nation in search of its true self----doesn't know if they are a PARTRIDGE or a QUAIL---.

Pakistan needs to stand up in front of the u s like israel does---. The americans have no respect for weak pu-ss's---pakistan must not allow itself to be bit-ch slapped by american generals and mr Panetta at will---. This ar-se kissing must stop----.

For all your well-expressed wishes of Pakistan to develop a spine, both you and I know that such spines develop only after decades of hard work, from foundations of education and economy, to building strong state institutions, and therefore the sad truth is that it is already too late for that to happen for the present predicament Pakistan is in, most wretchedly.
 
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Vcheng,

You literally killed them---they really don't have any national interest---if they had--they would have hung all the al qaeda members on light poles---pakistanis---my countrymen---so ruthless and so innocent they are---have no identity---a nation that is at a loss---a nation in search of its true self----doesn't know if they are a PARTRIDGE or a QUAIL---.

Pakistan needs to stand up in front of the u s like israel does---. The americans have no respect for weak pu-ss's---pakistan must not allow itself to be bit-ch slapped by american generals and mr Panetta at will---. This ar-se kissing must stop----.

You said it, I said it yesterday, Iranian President "IN US" rolling over the americans in UN General Assembly while Pakistani Government(s) are spineless gutless cowards they can't even say a striking blow away statement at US inside Pakistan.

What would be the credibility and tallness of Pakistani Govt when the Defense Minister is a ball bat sports good maker, where as hina rabbani hold nothing else but a hotel management diploma both from Pakistan and US and so I can explain other ministers portfolios.
 
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Mr Camacho,

I guess you missed it---intentionally or not---if the u s had troops on its side of the border from across waziristan----there would be no cross border crossings---with all the sophisticated equipment and all the technology at hand---if the u s is complanining about these issues then there is deception it its diction----. If the u s was really ineterested in stopping these incursions---they would be guarding the border 24/7----again I say----there is deception here---pakistan is being setup again---and pakistanis are at a loss to understand what is happening in the arena.

The pakistanbis believe that as long as they keep their heads in the sand---it is business as usual.
 
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I think that time is over and past, US is serious enough it will do all it can to swiftly empower and damage the image of Pakistan (already done alot) and create a legitimate case to take on further precision surgical strikes inside Pakistan. This is a warning Pakistani Armed Forces and Government must counter the accusations strongly. If Pakistan has any and credible evidences against CIA it needs to show them internationally to make its case strong enough for US to not engage in such a verbal accusations any more. Would Pakistanis be happy if B-2/B-52s are sent over.
 
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I think that time is over and past, US is serious enough it will do all it can to swiftly empower and damage the image of Pakistan (already done alot) and create a legitimate case to take on further precision surgical strikes inside Pakistan. This is a warning Pakistani Armed Forces and Government must counter the accusations strongly. If Pakistan has any and credible evidences against CIA it needs to show them internationally to make its case strong enough for US to not engage in such a verbal accusations any more. Would Pakistanis be happy if B-2/B-52s are sent over.

That's right. Whatever dirt they've found on CIA, as claimed due to Raymond Davis capture, must be brought out in public or must be hinted at bringing out. This accusation is no ordinary, it comes straight from the highest command of the US armed forces and towards Pak army, its intelligence agency and the govt. They have planned somethin big for them to say such big words.
 
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