US objects to China-Pakistan nuclear deal

[friendly_troll96]

man USA try whole best to sold CNT to india when we ask from them they refuse now when we got deal from china they impose us in NSG . where the hell is non nato ally now?. TRUST ON SNAKE BUT NOT USA an advise of day

lol I know what that proverb means… was laughing at what it would mean ‘literally’.

'billeon' ki kai types hn na Imran bhai!

 

[Imran Khan]

lol I know what that proverb means… was laughing at what it would mean ‘literally’.

'billeon' ki kai types hn na Imran bhai!

ye wali bhai jee

 

[fatman17]

The NSG runs by consensus, but its decisions have no legal binding on its members.

so there is the 'wriggle room' - no fuss, no muss!

 

[Jackdaws]

NSG offers guidelines, not rules. So this might be irrelevant but it might to difficult to get material needed to fuel the plants if NSG doesn't give approval.

 

[Ras]

The NSG runs by consensus, but its decisions have no legal binding on its members.

so there is the 'wriggle room' - no fuss, no muss!

Yes...but if China ignores the NSG then there is no point to them joining the NSG with great fanfare some years back.As far as I know no NSG member has ever broken ranks to do as they wish till now. China would set a precedent.

 

[Hawk Eyes]

only indian articles posting this, i cannot find anything that does not link to an indian source.

besides if u.s. votes against it there are other members how are they going to vote, and if NSG total vote is against pakistan how will this effect this deal?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Yes...but if China ignores the NSG then there is no point to them joining the NSG with great fanfare some years back.As far as I know no NSG member has ever broken ranks to do as they wish till now. China would set a precedent.

And what was the US doing with Indo-US deal at NSG ??

NSG members were not happy with US suspending or bending laws for its own commercial purposes.

So if US can do that, why not other countries.

If it made a special arrangement, so can China make a special arrangement for just Pakistan, while still follow the NSG rules for rest of the countries.

Strange hypocrisy from the US, it wanted billions in revenues for its nuclear industry, it suspended / bended the laws, now others want to help their friendly countries, the US has a problem.

You won't find another best example of hypocrisy anywhere else in the world, other then the USA.

When it comes to democracy, it wants peoples voice to be heard in each and every country of the world & democracy to flourish, but for its own purposes, it supports the regimes in the middle east as well as in other countries.

Raises voice of human rights concern about countries which are hostile to it, while supports countries for its own use who are indulging in human rights violations.

Goes to war and kills hundreds of thousands by presenting false information at world body and then justifies it with lies and more lies, while when others go to war for legitimate reasons, it bans and sanctions them.

Supports Israel in killings thousands mercilessly, while if another country does the same, then again goes to war or sanctions in.

Best hypocrite of the world.

 

[Renegade]

Lets see. These had been finalised before China joined NSG.

Factually incorrect. China only declared commitment to Chasma-1 & 2, while joining the NSG. It declared no commitment to Chasma-3 & Chasma-4, as it now seems to be claiming.

 

[Guynextdoor]

Yes...but if China ignores the NSG then there is no point to them joining the NSG with great fanfare some years back.As far as I know no NSG member has ever broken ranks to do as they wish till now. China would set a precedent.

Plus, what's the advantage except pure symbolism in this deal? The India deal hasn't even been fully realized and there are well over twelve new nuclear power plants in the pipeline (Many many more in the future). A real deal. But two nuclear power plants aren't really so big an earthshaking deal for China to go against all of NSG.

I think there's a bit more of subtle give and take. If the US has to mellow down on Yellow Sea, it will want to be seen assertive elsewhere. Things like this are perfect candidates.

 

[Guynextdoor]

And what was the US doing with Indo-US deal at NSG ??

NSG members were not happy with US suspending or bending laws for its own commercial purposes.

So if US can do that, why not other countries.

If it made a special arrangement, so can China make a special arrangement for just Pakistan, while still follow the NSG rules for rest of the countries.

Strange hypocrisy from the US, it wanted billions in revenues for its nuclear industry, it suspended / bended the laws, now others want to help their friendly countries, the US has a problem.

You won't find another best example of hypocrisy anywhere else in the world, other then the USA.

When it comes to democracy, it wants peoples voice to be heard in each and every country of the world & democracy to flourish, but for its own purposes, it supports the regimes in the middle east as well as in other countries.

Raises voice of human rights concern about countries which are hostile to it, while supports countries for its own use who are indulging in human rights violations.

Goes to war and kills hundreds of thousands by presenting false information at world body and then justifies it with lies and more lies, while when others go to war for legitimate reasons, it bans and sanctions them.

Supports Israel in killings thousands mercilessly, while if another country does the same, then again goes to war or sanctions in.

Best hypocrite of the world.

The Indo US Nuclear deal was a landmark deal through which the modern world solved a key problem of how to integrate a country with all it's priorities right with established regimes of non proliferation. In that the US played a rare and visionary role whose impact well into the future.

The key question that they were trying to answer was- how can a country that is so well integrated into the world economy and has a long standing democratic and accountable political culture be convinced to participate in healthy regime that promotes stability and security in the use of nuclear tech?

The key question we were trying to answer was how do WE integrate with the world community in such a way that our immedeate security interests are met and at the same time our energy needs are fulfilled. THAT's NO RHETORIC. Our target for nuclear energy by 2020 is 20,000 MW= the ENTIRE POWER GENERATED in pakistan today. It's not some yearning for 'symbolism' or 'parity', it is a REAL problem we have to solve to keep fuelling growth.

The Indo US Deal effectively addressed both sides of the issue and created a workable compromise. It is also the best guarantee that the world has that IF the security situation stabilizes, we will be in a position to expand the scope of our relationship with the NSG.

These decisions haven't happened overnight. India can say whatever it wants about growth but should the world believe it? Look at our track record for 20 years. Will we be stable and not give into viloent changes in politics/policy? Look at our track record for 60 years which have been almost continuously democratics. So the world strikes a compromise with an important partner who really isn't interested in remaining isolated.

In your case, you had a dictator only three years ago- your political fabric isn't stable. You were ready to cut deals with extremists and impose sharia in some sections of the country hardly two years ago. Your economic growth has been erratic. Your priorities are just not in place. Your focus on getting the important things right is just not there. While you may feel that you need parity, fact is you need to have a signifcant track record to realize these things.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

i'm not an expert in these matters; however i have some observations:

Originally Posted by fatman17 View Post
"The NSG runs by consensus, but its decisions have no legal binding on its members.

so there is the 'wriggle room' - no fuss, no muss!"

Prima facie it seems as simple as that; but is it so?
Assuming that USA disapproves and accepting the point about consensus, will China buck the system and persist?
Actually if you look at the present list of 45 members in the NSG, nobody else looks likely to step out of line.
Then going further, the NSG guidelines do not cover just transfer of 'straight' nuclear technology but further covers even 'dual use' items such as computers, software and so many other things.
A present day nuclear plant requires so many technologies ranging from special steels to pumps, valves, instrumentation, software and a plethora of other items. So this 'dual use' restriction is some "catch all" restriction that choke off some vital supplies required for a project. And it is also a fact that no "Nuclear Supplier" is able to supply all equipment from a single country, let alone a single source.
Incidentally, both India and Pakistan have a major contribution to the 'raison d'etre' of the NSG. The NSG was set up as a reaction to India's 'Pokhran 1" and the creation of elaborate Guidelines was a reaction to Pakistan's Mr. A.Q. Khan. Actually Mr. Khan can take credit for the tweaking and tightening of the Guidelines which seems to be an on-going process.
Lets see what happens further- i will not seek to speculate as i have tried to approach this subject from an academic standpoint not a national one.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Factually incorrect. China only declared commitment to Chasma-1 & 2, while joining the NSG. It declared no commitment to Chasma-3 & Chasma-4, as it now seems to be claiming.

Depends on how one interprets it - the Sino-Pak position is that the agreement implied developing the Chasma NPP complex, not just CHASNUPP I & II, and therefore needs no approval from the NSG, and therefore the US ( the hypocrites and duplicitous bastards that they are) can vote against the exemption all they want.

A vote in the NSG would only come into play if there was a proposal floated for an 'exemption' (violation of the NSG charter in other words) along the lines of what India obtained.

 

[nwmalik]

hmmmmmmmmmm bili thely se bahir a gai

if there will be a man in pakistan today he reply no more nato route and WOT by pakistan from today . and yes go to hell aid and f-16

Billi was always out of the bag.
Unfortunately we fail to see it

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes...but if China ignores the NSG then there is no point to them joining the NSG with great fanfare some years back.As far as I know no NSG member has ever broken ranks to do as they wish till now. China would set a precedent.

But if there is no 'consensus' on censuring China and Pakistan over this nuclear deal, that both claim does not need NSG approval since it is grandfathered, then there is no action that the NSG will take.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"Yes sir, by definition, we do not support any activity that goes against the guidelines," said Vann H Van Diepen, Acting Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Non Proliferation

BS - the US did just that, supported the violation of the NSG charter and guidelines in selling nuclear technology and materials to an NPT-non signatory, when it lobbied for the Indian NSG exemption and passed its own nuclear cooperation agreement with India.

The blatant duplicity and forked tongue of the US government is just astounding.