US, India and Japan launch joint naval exercises to keep China in check

[Han Patriot]

What air reinforcement?From where?Your aircraft will fly from china all across india to reinforce?Lol.More naval ships from where?South china sea bases are thousands of miles away.You are surrounded on all sides by Indian navy and airforce bases with the USN watching and waiting to the south at Diego Garcia.

Firstly, we need to understand a few scenarios:

1) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR.
2) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR where IN is engaging.
3) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR where IN is engaging and mainland Indian air force is engaging but no nuclear weapons are deployed


Check the location of Yunnan, there is an air base at the border near Xishuangbana. The distance is almost the same from Mainland India from Vishakpatnam, roughtly 1000+km, the range of the J-11 is around 3500km. We will fly through Myanmarese air space.

In scenario 1) Indian navy will not attack because the Chinese vessels will do the same damage to their commercial ships if they do the same. War is limited to border areas, this is the situation China is striving for.

In scenario 2) if IN engages and attacks Chinese vessels, there will be naval warfare in IOR and reinforcements would be sent from Mainland China, A&R will be attacked and destroyed if they try to intervene. The explanation of how it will be done had already been explained in other threads. A combination of sea launched missiles and air attack.

In scenario 3) if IAF engages and attacks Chinese vessels from the mainland, China will also reciprocate from the mainland and attack Indian mainland. This will be an all out war, but no nuclear would be used.

Last scenario is nuclear war aka WWIII.

Missile attacks from yunnan?Lol on IOR?Even if some of your longest missiles reached it who would be providing guidance data?Where is the requisite aerial surveillence aircraft /drones or land based radar going to come from.And any cruise missile will be shot down easily by specialized cruise missile killer barak 8.Lol,how long do you think it takes to operationalize the airbase ,faster than you can send out a fleet into IOR.The infrastructure is there.In wartime it can be activated quickly,supported by our airforce from south india.How long do you think it would take to airlift a brahmos battery to station there?
Everybody in strategic circles knows the importance of andaman,only you are ignorant.

Why do you think the Chinese are launching 36 satellites to create a global nav sat system? Currently the system already cover the whole IOR. Port Blair base is so obvious from spy sats, coordinates are well known. what kind of guidance data you need? Yah how many Barak 8 do you have? And how much does it cost? 200 missiles cost 2.6 billion, how much do you think our cruise missiles cost? If 50% of our cheap long range missiles hit their target, your air base is gone, you can store your planes in bunkers, how are they gonna take off without a runway?

USA bombed the runways and towers in syria- a backward force with 59 tomahawks and next morning base was operational.That is the weakness of subsonics,too weak punching power - cant hit hardened targets.And no they won't destroy planes.Also please remind me why you are talking of airbases when talking of IOR?
As to how many missiles we can afford?

U.S. Central Command stated in a press release that Tomahawk missiles hit "aircraft, hardened aircraft shelters, petroleum and logistical storage, ammunition supply bunkers, defense systems, and radars".[23] Initial U.S. reports claimed "approximately 20 planes" were destroyed, and that 58 out of the 59 cruise missiles launched "severely degraded or destroyed" their intended target.[24][25] According to the satellite images the runways[26] and the taxiways have been reportedly undamaged and combat flights from the attacked airbase resumed on 7 April a few hours after the attack, although U.S. officials did not state that the runway was a target

None of the missiles were intended to damage runways and 50 missiles for a 3km long runway is practically useless. If you rain 200-300 cheap missiles on specific runways along specific lengths, it will take days if not weeks (Indian effort) to repair. If you include destruction of oil storage, radars, etc, the base would be out of service until repair crews from mainland India reaches Andaman. These few day of inactivity would have enable Chinese naval bombardment of Port Blair and Air Force reinforcements from Yunnan to reach and further damage it with bunker busting bombs plus heavy duty bombs. After which the ships would have passed through and more reinforcement would go through.

Well lets see - 400 brahmos missiles in 4 regiments for the army operational.Fifth regiment with another 100 being raised.Plus a reserve maybe of 100 more.(Useable in coastal battery mode if needed)

Depending on what is the range of your guesstimate Brahmos is, I suspect it's more like 300km, Chinese fleet can just stay clear of 300km from the mainland, and with satellite intelligence, we know the locations of those batteries and avoid them. Else, we can bombard them with our ship/submarine based missiles. The only concern is air force, if you use that, our air force will be mobilized to attack India. The aim here is to provide enough naval balance until the Indians will not harass Chinese trade routes, not invade mainland India.

22 air launched harpoons for jaguars and P-8I.Plus air launched brahmos now coming online in su-30mKI. About 150 KH-31 for su-30MKI.Unknown numbers of air launched KH-35 and KH-31 for the 45 mig-29Ks and Il-38s.
12 sea eagles on jaguars.


For navy - 416 SS-N-25 Kh-35s for Delhi class and rajput class destroyers,brahmaputra class frigates and missile corvettes.
40-50 SS-N-22 sunburn/moskit in missile corvettes.
60-100 SS-N-2D Styx missiles in corvettes,Rajput class and coastal batteries.
60 SS-N-27 Klub/Sizzler/Kaliber for Shivalik and Early batch Talwars.
130 plus Brahmos deployed on Kolkata,Talwar,upgraded Rajputs.Unknown war reserves/reloads.

40 sub-launched klubs from Kilos and akula.
24 sub-launched harpoon from U-209.
36 Exocets.

Brahmos,Klub and Sunburn,Kh-31(to lesser extent) are our elite supersonic weapons.With subsonic Kh-35,harpoon and exocets for massed saturation .If 24 Brahmos salvo can potentially penetrate a US CBG,what hope do you think you have against this massive arsenal?Even just our brahmos arsenal (which is going to grow year after year as all new ships will have it,and older ships will be upgraded with it)is enough to sink the cream of PLAN.

You are talking as if you are the only ones with planes, missiles and ships. If you go to this scenario, which is scenario 3, then the whole air force and navy would be mobilized, assuming non-nuclear, bye bye Delhi. If nuclear, bye bye India.

Btw, you need to understand the reason for an IOR fleet deployment. It is not meant to invade India. It is a deterrent measure. The fleet don't even need to be as big as the Indian Navy, 70-80% size is adequate. Imagine if we don't have an IOR fleet, Indians would just blockade and destroy China based trade routes, with a 70-80% size fleet power, it is more than enough to reciprocate Indian harassment. You are also forgetting Pakistan in this equation.

The intent is to limit the war to the border and prevent Indians from trying to be funny. China has a no nuclear first use policy, not sure about crazy Hindus. If no nuclear weapons are used, India is toasted.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Firstly, we need to understand a few scenarios:

1) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR.
2) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR where IN is engaging.
3) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR where IN is engaging and mainland Indian air force is engaging but no nuclear weapons are deployed


Check the location of Yunnan, there is an air base at the border near Xishuangbana. The distance is almost the same from Mainland India from Vishakpatnam, roughtly 1000+km, the range of the J-11 is around 3500km. We will fly through Myanmarese air space.

In scenario 1) Indian navy will not attack because the Chinese vessels will do the same damage to their commercial ships if they do the same. War is limited to border areas, this is the situation China is striving for.

In scenario 2) if IN engages and attacks Chinese vessels, there will be naval warfare in IOR and reinforcements would be sent from Mainland China, A&R will be attacked and destroyed if they try to intervene. The explanation of how it will be done had already been explained in other threads. A combination of sea launched missiles and air attack.

In scenario 3) if IAF engages and attacks Chinese vessels from the mainland, China will also reciprocate from the mainland and attack Indian mainland. This will be an all out war, but no nuclear would be used.

Last scenario is nuclear war aka WWIII.


Why do you think the Chinese are launching 36 satellites to create a global nav sat system? Currently the system already cover the whole IOR. Port Blair base is so obvious from spy sats, coordinates are well known. what kind of guidance data you need? Yah how many Barak 8 do you have? And how much does it cost? 200 missiles cost 2.6 billion, how much do you think our cruise missiles cost? If 50% of our cheap long range missiles hit their target, your air base is gone, you can store your planes in bunkers, how are they gonna take off without a runway?





None of the missiles were intended to damage runways and 50 missiles for a 3km long runway is practically useless. If you rain 200-300 cheap missiles on specific runways along specific lengths, it will take days if not weeks (Indian effort) to repair. If you include destruction of oil storage, radars, etc, the base would be out of service until repair crews from mainland India reaches Andaman. These few day of inactivity would have enable Chinese naval bombardment of Port Blair and Air Force reinforcements from Yunnan to reach and further damage it with bunker busting bombs plus heavy duty bombs. After which the ships would have passed through and more reinforcement would go through.


Depending on what is the range of your guesstimate Brahmos is, I suspect it's more like 300km, Chinese fleet can just stay clear of 300km from the mainland, and with satellite intelligence, we know the locations of those batteries and avoid them. Else, we can bombard them with our ship/submarine based missiles. The only concern is air force, if you use that, our air force will be mobilized to attack India. The aim here is to provide enough naval balance until the Indians will not harass Chinese trade routes, not invade mainland India.

You are talking as if you are the only ones with planes, missiles and ships. If you go to this scenario, which is scenario 3, then the whole air force and navy would be mobilized, assuming non-nuclear, bye bye Delhi. If nuclear, bye bye India.

Btw, you need to understand the reason for an IOR fleet deployment. It is not meant to invade India. It is a deterrent measure. The fleet don't even need to be as big as the Indian Navy, 70-80% size is adequate. Imagine if we don't have an IOR fleet, Indians would just blockade and destroy China based trade routes, with a 70-80% size fleet power, it is more than enough to reciprocate Indian harassment. You are also forgetting Pakistan in this equation.

The intent is to limit the war to the border and prevent Indians from trying to be funny. China has a no nuclear first use policy, not sure about crazy Hindus. If no nuclear weapons are used, India is toasted.

First,Myanmar will not allow you to use their airspace in wartime as that would be act of war against india,they will stay neutral.Second any fighters with enough range will have to go over india's north east region packed with air defences/SAM and then be flanked by indian air force bases in Eastern india.
Scenario 1 - Indian navy will attack because we know for at least another 15 years china will not be able to retaliate effectively.You have no capacity to retaliate on our commercial vehicles because you have no substantial fleets in any bases outside mainland china and SCS.You cant sink anything with imaginery ships.

Scenario 2 - IN attacks,there will not be 'warfare' because you have like 1-2 destroyers,2 frigates and 2 subs at any moment in IOR.Rest are all support/surveillence,ocean survey vessels.This puny force will be sunk day 1 by the enormous Indian navy.Then the massacre of defenceless chinese oil tankers begin .China can respond by sending a fleet,but its casino carrier joke has never even gone out on a long range deployment,forget warfare.So lets say you send a battlegroup.It first has to come through andman area.Here IN can crush the fleet completely with attacks from air (carriers,andaman based aircraft,south india based fighters bombers and maritime patrol),its own surface fleet with hundreds of missiles - primary brahmos and klub.Then torpedoes and missiles from its submarines.And finally land based coastal missile batteries(simply airlift a brahmos battery).With 600 km range any ship that even enters IOR will be locked on ,with guidance provided by land based radars,ships,subs,maritime patrol aircraft,listening stations.24 brahmos enough to destroy a PLAN CBG.And we have hundreds.

Scenario 3 - Of course IAF will attack chinese vessels.China can't do anything as most of its aircraft can't operate in IOR,and those in NE are handicapped and congested in a few bases .Everybody has satellites ,IN and IAF have their own network .We have information sharing with the americans too.Satellites are useless against moving targets and camouflaged ones.They can merely check on static targets periodically.If war could be fought by satellites there would be no need for strategic reconaissance aircraft,UAVs,maritime patrol,radars and sonars stations.You have no guidance support in IOR,your fleet is blind while ours will be supported by land based infrastructure from south india and andaman.The same strategy you want to use against the USN and japanese in south china sea - anti access/area denial will be used against you here.

We have around 200 barak-8 deployed.Every new IN ship is coming with this missile.So don't worry.We have over 500 barak-1s for cheap subsonic missiles and hundreds of shtil-1.First your cheap subsonic missiles can't fly over mountain terrain,they will crash due to terrain hugging .If they overfly indian landmass they will be targeted by IA/IAF SAMs and aircraft.Most important of all you have no guidance data provider,which means these are completely useless against indian ships in IOR,forget shooting them down.Even CIWS can shoot down cheap subsonics.They have no penetration,so you can destroy some buildings in andaman at best,you can't touch aircraft in hardened shelters/runways or vital operating mechanism if tomahawks in syria are an example except making a few holes in runway which can be steamrolled back in place in couple of hours.Your cheap subsonic don't have penetration or power to penetrate hardened aircraft shelters.You seem to not even understand how aircraft are arranged- you have a hardened shelter protecting the aircraft.Outside this the runway begins.Fuel is stored underground usually,missile attacks useless.

Brahmos range is 450-600 km.You call brahmos yakhont paintjob,yet can't accept that it has the same range as yakhont despite being a modernized and heavier version?Funny double standards.If we base brahmos in andaman,You enter IOR,you get locked on.Then either you turn back like US destroyer did in crimea,or you die.
A couple of camouflaged brahmos batteries in the andaman jungles,enough to shut down any attempt to enter IOR without taking huge losses.Missile batteries (unless sam battery protecting a site)are mobile ,can be camouflaged and satellites largely useless against them.That is why Land based ICBMs are deployed on trucks or missile carriers rather than silos these days,because they cant be taken out in a first strike with satellite intelligence.
And do you even understand that andaman is just a forward base for us?You will be shattered even getting past that.Our real force and huge bases are in the mainland reinforcing it from the back.Anything gets through will then face the full force of IAF in south india and IN from its bases,including the largest naval base in asia at karwar.

If non -nuclear - you army stalemated in tibet and starving with its road/rail links destroyed.Your airforce struggling to deploy even 30% of its strength in 5-7 congested bases in whole western theatre command and handicapped.Turkey shoot for IAF against these handicapped aircraft supported by propeller AWACs.
Nuclear - bye bye india,bye bye china.Pakistan bonus.Bye bye asian century.Worldwide economic collapse,starvation due to nuclear clouds.1 nuke into 3 gorges dam is enough to set china back 200 years.

Is not meant to invade india?Reality check - You can't invade india from the sea.You can't even invade taiwan,man.Thats like 50 kms from your shores.Invade india?Lol.The fleet you send to IOR needs to be 3 times as big as IN forces to be able to break through andaman area and get into IOR proper in the face of relentless attacks from south india.You have almost zero air support,no guidance,no bases,no refuelling ability until you reach gwadar,no land based air support.We have all of these.Pakistan Navy is defensive force only,its a more advanced version of the Indian coast guard.If it was a 2 front war,not to brag but every ship in PN except its submarines would be destroyed within first 24 hours.They don't have any missile capable of defending against brahmos volleys.A single kolkata class destroyer can potentially destroy all major surface combatants in PN.Largely defenceless,relying on a little submarine harassment and fast attack missile boats which are only useful in coast defence.

So ,no.China doesnt have any current capability to seriously hinder IN from destroying its shipping in wartime right now.We know it and your own side knows it.First get a dozen good non-noisy SSNs and 4-5 CBGs .Then you have a chance.Right now,turkey shoot.

 

[wiseone2]

Do I have to repeat myself over and over again. 14 vessels prowling now, in times of war, we have air reinforcement, more naval ships and missile attacks from Yunnan. It is within range of long range cruise missiles and you have none. =). First to fall is A&N, the distance from Yunnan to A&N is almost the same from the Indian mainland, there goes your so called unsinkable aircraft carrier. I just checked google maps, look at the size of these runways on some of these so called unsinkable air craft carriers, I don't even see aircrafts on them. There are no permanently stationed aircraft, the main base is in Port Blair. If we destroy Port Blair, practically the whoie A&N is kaboomed. You don't call people gege, gege is when you are trying to sound like a bit*ch doing a cat call. You call people ge in one word like bro or bhai.

Told you, you can choose to believe those bases are just for R&R. There won't be an IOR fleet there, the Chinese are just doing surveys and scientific research, we are harmless pandas.



First you need to understand what are ship based missiles, the price of those systems and the kill ratio against a swarm of cruise missiles. How many missiles can you afford? Import more from Israel? You don't have bunkers in A&R genius. Even if you have, we just need to damage the runways and your planes will be stuck there.

Do you even know what happened in Afghanistan, the US was bombing caves/rat holes, the people were hiding in caves, no planes on those 'bases'. Are you TALIBANS hiding in caves or underground rat holes? When you mean operational, it just meant the people came out from the rat holes back to the surface. I would be glad if that was the modus operandi of the IN in A&R. We bomb the runways, bomb the control towers and destroy the planes, the soldier hide in holes, and next day they come out unharmed declaring the base 'operational'. Our Navy would have just sailed past those island. . Yes, those bases would be 'operational'. What a genius.



Don't even start on your so called 'indigenous' shipbuilding, it took 10 years just to build one Kolkata, due to the import content, one delay in the chain and the whole ship is delayed. How many ships can you churn out in a year?

You are just repeating what China did, and you are already in a worst shape. China is cleaning up her act, and you with your incompetent government is just letting it be. Check the latest ranking of most polluted cities in the world, then come back and talk to me. Years ago, Indians were so confident of their economic model, they were poor but had a better environment, oblivious to the fact that they are poor and also more environmentally degraded than China.

No country in the Indian Ocean Region - Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Pakistan, Djibouti will allow Chinese warships access bases during wartime with India

Firstly, we need to understand a few scenarios:

1) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR.
2) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR where IN is engaging.
3) Limited war at border area with Chinese vessel patrolling with or without bases in IOR where IN is engaging and mainland Indian air force is engaging but no nuclear weapons are deployed


Check the location of Yunnan, there is an air base at the border near Xishuangbana. The distance is almost the same from Mainland India from Vishakpatnam, roughtly 1000+km, the range of the J-11 is around 3500km. We will fly through Myanmarese air space.

Do you seriously think other countries will risk themselves for a war against India ? Or that matter against China.
All your bases in the IOR will be in-operational because the host countries will order you out. Myanmar, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Djibouti won't for sure. Even sane generals in Pakistan would not risk getting tangled in India-China conflict.

Myanmar will not permit you to fly through their airspace

 

[el nino]

Chinease are not doing didly squat

Heck they can't sort out Vietnam or Taiwan.

So cheerleaders from Pakistan just calm.down.


No one is doing Jack

 

[Han Patriot]

First,Myanmar will not allow you to use their airspace in wartime as that would be act of war against india,they will stay neutral.Second any fighters with enough range will have to go over india's north east region packed with air defences/SAM and then be flanked by indian air force bases in Eastern india.

You are assuming they will not allow, what are they gonna do when 100-200 planes flyover their airspace? . They can just remain neutral by not joining the war, and play innocent. If India attacks them, this will create another front for India. You telling me India can fight a 3.5 front war now? . Genius, first you say Chinese can't go through Myanmar and now you are proposing us to go through your NE states? LOL. Are you nuts? By then the war at the border would be ongoing to trigger scenario 2. And if you use air force in that skirmish, Tezpur and gang would have been neutralized.

Scenario 1 - Indian navy will attack because we know for at least another 15 years china will not be able to retaliate effectively.You have no capacity to retaliate on our commercial vehicles because you have no substantial fleets in any bases outside mainland china and SCS.You cant sink anything with imaginery ships.

No, if you attack in scenario 1, it would have been scenario 2, pay attention please. I explicitly divided the scenarios for this purpose. You can just say scenario 1 will not happen and move directly to scenario 2. 14 ships in the IOR now are not imaginary, these are the ones you can detect, what about those you can't detect?imagine what will happen when Gwadar and Djibouti are fully operational, somebody is gonna get a pain.

Scenario 2 - IN attacks,there will not be 'warfare' because you have like 1-2 destroyers,2 frigates and 2 subs at any moment in IOR.Rest are all support/surveillence,ocean survey vessels.This puny force will be sunk day 1 by the enormous Indian navy.Then the massacre of defenceless chinese oil tankers begin .China can respond by sending a fleet,but its casino carrier joke has never even gone out on a long range deployment,forget warfare.So lets say you send a battlegroup.It first has to come through andman area.Here IN can crush the fleet completely with attacks from air (carriers,andaman based aircraft,south india based fighters bombers and maritime patrol),its own surface fleet with hundreds of missiles - primary brahmos and klub.Then torpedoes and missiles from its submarines.And finally land based coastal missile batteries(simply airlift a brahmos battery).With 600 km range any ship that even enters IOR will be locked on ,with guidance provided by land based radars,ships,subs,maritime patrol aircraft,listening stations.24 brahmos enough to destroy a PLAN CBG.And we have hundreds.

Is it 1 or 2? You have not idea right? Just a guesstimate? Assuming 10 attack vessels, 2 support vessels and 2 survey ships is more reasonable. Remember these ships are based around Djibouti/Karachi(future in Gwadar) areas for a reason, when you attack Karachi or places near Pakistan, you will trigger Pakistani Navy and Air Force, this is why I say 70-80% strength is adequate. Remember your fleet is divided into two, are you telling me your whole fleet from the East will sail and attack together, further exposing yourselves to attack from Yunnan? Remember I told you the strategic intent of the fleet, it is a deterrent, India will not choose to attack the Chinese/Pakistani first, they will blockade or harass commercial vessels first, downstream of Pakistan. We are upstream near the gulf, when that happens, we harass back your ships. Also do note that the majority of Chinese trade are carried out by foreign vessels and tankers. You attack those international fleet, you are declaring war against the international community.

Casino carrier, that casino carrier is a training ship which sailed from North to South China, the distance is roughly the same like sailing from Hainan to Andaman. This same casino carrier was bought for 20 mil and upgraded by Chinese, how much did you pay for your smaller Vikram? The Russians milked you good right?.

Don't have to tellme what missiles you have, we have more advanced missiles with longer ranges and we produce them in bulk, what are you gonna do when you run out of missiles? Import?

Let me repeat myself, before we even reach A&R, your base would have been disabled, by the time we reach A&R, it would be destroyed.

Scenario 3 - Of course IAF will attack chinese vessels.China can't do anything as most of its aircraft can't operate in IOR,and those in NE are handicapped and congested in a few bases .Everybody has satellites ,IN and IAF have their own network .We have information sharing with the americans too.Satellites are useless against moving targets and camouflaged ones.They can merely check on static targets periodically.If war could be fought by satellites there would be no need for strategic reconaissance aircraft,UAVs,maritime patrol,radars and sonars stations.You have no guidance support in IOR,your fleet is blind while ours will be supported by land based infrastructure from south india and andaman.The same strategy you want to use against the USN and japanese in south china sea - anti access/area denial will be used against you here.

Scenario 3 is all out war. Before you go into essay mode, check the military balance. In a non-nuclear war, India is gonna be toasted.

No country in the Indian Ocean Region - Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Pakistan, Djibouti will allow Chinese warships access bases during wartime with India



Do you seriously think other countries will risk themselves for a war against India ? Or that matter against China.
All your bases in the IOR will be in-operational because the host countries will order you out. Myanmar, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Djibouti won't for sure. Even sane generals in Pakistan would not risk getting tangled in India-China conflict.

Myanmar will not permit you to fly through their airspace

Who do you think India is? Supa Powa? Why do you think we have a base there? So we have a base but we can't use it? Use some common sense.
What is Myanmar going to do when 100-200 fighter fly through their air space? Attack them? Protest?

 

[wiseone2]

You are assuming they will not allow, what are they gonna do when 100-200 planes flyover their airspace? . They can just remain neutral by not joining the war, and play innocent. If India attacks them, this will create another front for India. You telling me India can fight a 3.5 front war now? . Genius, first you say Chinese can't go through Myanmar and now you are proposing us to go through your NE states? LOL. Are you nuts? By then the war at the border would be ongoing to trigger scenario 2. And if you use air force in that skirmish, Tezpur and gang would have been neutralized.



No, if you attack in scenario 1, it would have been scenario 2, pay attention please. I explicitly divided the scenarios for this purpose. You can just say scenario 1 will not happen and move directly to scenario 2. 14 ships in the IOR now are not imaginary, these are the ones you can detect, what about those you can't detect?imagine what will happen when Gwadar and Djibouti are fully operational, somebody is gonna get a pain.



Is it 1 or 2? You have not idea right? Just a guesstimate? Assuming 10 attack vessels, 2 support vessels and 2 survey ships is more reasonable. Remember these ships are based around Djibouti/Karachi(future in Gwadar) areas for a reason, when you attack Karachi or places near Pakistan, you will trigger Pakistani Navy and Air Force, this is why I say 70-80% strength is adequate. Remember your fleet is divided into two, are you telling me your whole fleet from the East will sail and attack together, further exposing yourselves to attack from Yunnan? Remember I told you the strategic intent of the fleet, it is a deterrent, India will not choose to attack the Chinese/Pakistani first, they will blockade or harass commercial vessels first, downstream of Pakistan. We are upstream near the gulf, when that happens, we harass back your ships. Also do note that the majority of Chinese trade are carried out by foreign vessels and tankers. You attack those international fleet, you are declaring war against the international community.

Casino carrier, that casino carrier is a training ship which sailed from North to South China, the distance is roughly the same like sailing from Hainan to Andaman. This same casino carrier was bought for 20 mil and upgraded by Chinese, how much did you pay for your smaller Vikram? The Russians milked you good right?.

Don't have to tellme what missiles you have, we have more advanced missiles with longer ranges and we produce them in bulk, what are you gonna do when you run out of missiles? Import?

Let me repeat myself, before we even reach A&R, your base would have been disabled, by the time we reach A&R, it would be destroyed.



Scenario 3 is all out war. Before you go into essay mode, check the military balance. In a non-nuclear war, India is gonna be toasted.

spare me all this fairly tales. With the exception of USA there is a good reason countries do not operate outside their home base.

Your Djibouti base won't be operational in a war against India. I hope they have the good sense not to get involved. All it takes is one missile strike. Djibouti will come under intense international pressure not to get involved in India-China war.

You assume the international community will sit around idle in a fight between two nuclear powers.

 

[Han Patriot]

spare me all this fairly tales. With the exception of USA there is a good reason countries do not operate outside their home base.

Your Djibouti base won't be operational in a war against India. I hope they have the good sense not to get involved. All it takes is one missile strike. Djibouti will come under intense international pressure not to get involved in India-China war.

You assume the international community will sit around idle in a fight between two nuclear powers.

OOO great you are going to use ballistic missiles in Djibouti, with Japanese & American bases there? I remember now, that's the only long range missile you have.

Who do you really think India is? Supa powa? In event of war, the Chinese fleet in in Djibouti, bound by agreement, how are they gonna evict us?

 

[wiseone2]

OOO great you are going to use ballistic missiles in Djibouti, with Japanese & American bases there? I remember now, that's the only long range missile you have.

Who do you really think India is? Supa powa?

What makes you think Djibouti will allow China to use those bases ?
The emperor has no clothes. India owns the Indian Ocean. Deal with it

 

[Han Patriot]

What makes you think Djibouti will allow China to use those bases ?
The emperor has no clothes. India owns the Indian Ocean. Deal with it

Ermm, we are already in Djibouti with a 40 year base lease?. India does not own the IOR, if you own them, what are our ships doing there? Picnicking?

First, learn to feed your people, wake up, you are not a supa powa since 2012.

 

[wiseone2]

Ermm, we are already in Djibouti with a 40 year base lease?

that does not mean you can go to war from Djibouti
They can cancel the lease and tell you to get lost

 

[axisofevil]

First,Myanmar will not allow you to use their airspace in wartime as that would be act of war against india,they will stay neutral.Second any fighters with enough range will have to go over india's north east region packed with air defences/SAM and then be flanked by indian air force bases in Eastern india.
Scenario 1 - Indian navy will attack because we know for at least another 15 years china will not be able to retaliate effectively.You have no capacity to retaliate on our commercial vehicles because you have no substantial fleets in any bases outside mainland china and SCS.You cant sink anything with imaginery ships.

Scenario 2 - IN attacks,there will not be 'warfare' because you have like 1-2 destroyers,2 frigates and 2 subs at any moment in IOR.Rest are all support/surveillence,ocean survey vessels.This puny force will be sunk day 1 by the enormous Indian navy.Then the massacre of defenceless chinese oil tankers begin .China can respond by sending a fleet,but its casino carrier joke has never even gone out on a long range deployment,forget warfare.So lets say you send a battlegroup.It first has to come through andman area.Here IN can crush the fleet completely with attacks from air (carriers,andaman based aircraft,south india based fighters bombers and maritime patrol),its own surface fleet with hundreds of missiles - primary brahmos and klub.Then torpedoes and missiles from its submarines.And finally land based coastal missile batteries(simply airlift a brahmos battery).With 600 km range any ship that even enters IOR will be locked on ,with guidance provided by land based radars,ships,subs,maritime patrol aircraft,listening stations.24 brahmos enough to destroy a PLAN CBG.And we have hundreds.

Scenario 3 - Of course IAF will attack chinese vessels.China can't do anything as most of its aircraft can't operate in IOR,and those in NE are handicapped and congested in a few bases .Everybody has satellites ,IN and IAF have their own network .We have information sharing with the americans too.Satellites are useless against moving targets and camouflaged ones.They can merely check on static targets periodically.If war could be fought by satellites there would be no need for strategic reconaissance aircraft,UAVs,maritime patrol,radars and sonars stations.You have no guidance support in IOR,your fleet is blind while ours will be supported by land based infrastructure from south india and andaman.The same strategy you want to use against the USN and japanese in south china sea - anti access/area denial will be used against you here.

We have around 200 barak-8 deployed.Every new IN ship is coming with this missile.So don't worry.We have over 500 barak-1s for cheap subsonic missiles and hundreds of shtil-1.First your cheap subsonic missiles can't fly over mountain terrain,they will crash due to terrain hugging .If they overfly indian landmass they will be targeted by IA/IAF SAMs and aircraft.Most important of all you have no guidance data provider,which means these are completely useless against indian ships in IOR,forget shooting them down.Even CIWS can shoot down cheap subsonics.They have no penetration,so you can destroy some buildings in andaman at best,you can't touch aircraft in hardened shelters/runways or vital operating mechanism if tomahawks in syria are an example except making a few holes in runway which can be steamrolled back in place in couple of hours.Your cheap subsonic don't have penetration or power to penetrate hardened aircraft shelters.You seem to not even understand how aircraft are arranged- you have a hardened shelter protecting the aircraft.Outside this the runway begins.Fuel is stored underground usually,missile attacks useless.

Brahmos range is 450-600 km.You call brahmos yakhont paintjob,yet can't accept that it has the same range as yakhont despite being a modernized and heavier version?Funny double standards.If we base brahmos in andaman,You enter IOR,you get locked on.Then either you turn back like US destroyer did in crimea,or you die.
A couple of camouflaged brahmos batteries in the andaman jungles,enough to shut down any attempt to enter IOR without taking huge losses.Missile batteries (unless sam battery protecting a site)are mobile ,can be camouflaged and satellites largely useless against them.That is why Land based ICBMs are deployed on trucks or missile carriers rather than silos these days,because they cant be taken out in a first strike with satellite intelligence.
And do you even understand that andaman is just a forward base for us?You will be shattered even getting past that.Our real force and huge bases are in the mainland reinforcing it from the back.Anything gets through will then face the full force of IAF in south india and IN from its bases,including the largest naval base in asia at karwar.

If non -nuclear - you army stalemated in tibet and starving with its road/rail links destroyed.Your airforce struggling to deploy even 30% of its strength in 5-7 congested bases in whole western theatre command and handicapped.Turkey shoot for IAF against these handicapped aircraft supported by propeller AWACs.
Nuclear - bye bye india,bye bye china.Pakistan bonus.Bye bye asian century.Worldwide economic collapse,starvation due to nuclear clouds.1 nuke into 3 gorges dam is enough to set china back 200 years.

Is not meant to invade india?Reality check - You can't invade india from the sea.You can't even invade taiwan,man.Thats like 50 kms from your shores.Invade india?Lol.The fleet you send to IOR needs to be 3 times as big as IN forces to be able to break through andaman area and get into IOR proper in the face of relentless attacks from south india.You have almost zero air support,no guidance,no bases,no refuelling ability until you reach gwadar,no land based air support.We have all of these.Pakistan Navy is defensive force only,its a more advanced version of the Indian coast guard.If it was a 2 front war,not to brag but every ship in PN except its submarines would be destroyed within first 24 hours.They don't have any missile capable of defending against brahmos volleys.A single kolkata class destroyer can potentially destroy all major surface combatants in PN.Largely defenceless,relying on a little submarine harassment and fast attack missile boats which are only useful in coast defence.

So ,no.China doesnt have any current capability to seriously hinder IN from destroying its shipping in wartime right now.We know it and your own side knows it.First get a dozen good non-noisy SSNs and 4-5 CBGs .Then you have a chance.Right now,turkey shoot.

That pic posts a PLA Sigint Station ....however I think this is inaccurate.

Ermm, we are already in Djibouti with a 40 year base lease?. India does not own the IOR, if you own them, what are our ships doing there? Picnicking?

You don't own the South China sea....Our ships are there....

 

[Han Patriot]

that does not mean you can go to war from Djibouti
They can cancel the lease and tell you to get lost

So they are gonna cancel just because India says so? . So how are they gonna evict us? They are bound by agreement, if they violate agreement for some reason, we just stay there just like how US is staying in Guantanamo.

That pic posts a PLA Sigint Station ....however I think this is inaccurate.




You don't own the South China sea....Our ships are there....

Who says we own the SCS?

 

[Eminent Mainstream Media]

OOO great you are going to use ballistic missiles in Djibouti, with Japanese & American bases there? I remember now, that's the only long range missile you have.

Who do you really think India is? Supa powa? In event of war, the Chinese fleet in in Djibouti, bound by agreement, how are they gonna evict us?

Indian Navy is very aggressive force, they won't think twice If the war breaks out- They didn't care consequences while attacking Karachi in 1971 even when US 7th fleet was coming to teach India a lesson-

I don't think ballistic missiles will be used, clubs, harpoons, exocets from Submarines and Brahmos from Ships will be enough to take out Djibouti or Gwadar- I wouldn't be surprised If they hit Shanghai, Hainan etc also-

 

[axisofevil]

So they are gonna cancel just because India says so? . So how are they gonna evict us? They are bound by agreement, if they violate agreement for some reason, we just stay there just like how US is staying in Guantanamo.


Who says we own the SCS?

Isn't what China claims ??

 

[Han Patriot]

Indian Navy is very aggressive force, they won't think twice If the war breaks out- They didn't care consequences while attacking Karachi in 1971 even when US 7th fleet was coming to teach India a lesson-

I don't think ballistic missiles will be used, clubs, harpoons, exocets from Submarines and Brahmos from Ships will be enough to take out Djibouti or Gwadar- I wouldn't be surprised If they hit Shanghai, Hainan etc also-

Attacking Pakistan and attacking China+Pakistan are two different things altogether. Yah, only you have ships, missiles and submarine.

Yes, your Brahmos are 1000km, Brahmos again, dude, please develop your own cruise missiles. PLEASEEEEEE