Featured US greenlights Turkey-made attack helicopter sale to Philippines but not for Pakistan?

[Dazzler]

Go through your post my friend. I have nothing else to say.

Don't feel the need to.

 

[musti]

My Guess US will light Green for Pakistan T-129 order soon. but it needs better lobbying.

Unless Chiana will be supplier of Attack choppers.

So US will be loser from both side. İnflunce of supplying engines.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

why Attack Helicopters to hunt İndian Tanks ?

Turkey’s extensive deployment of Armed Drones in its fight against Syrian Regime Forces in Idlib province has put forward a "new military doctrine" in the world

UCAVs are more effective than Attack Helicopters to hunt Tanks
An 18 AKINCI UCAV battalion can carry 288 MIZRAK anti Tank missiles, each capable of destroying a Tank



AKINCI UCAV

Payload : 1350 kg
Max speed : 360 km/h
Combat Range : 2.000+ km
Endurance : 24 hours
Service ceiling : 40.000 feet

-- AESA Radar
-- SATCOM
-- 6 multi-core Artificial Intelligence Computers

-- 8 km MIZRAK anti Tank Missile with top attack capability
-- 25 km BOZDOGAN air to air Missile
-- 74 km KUZGUN joint strike Bomb with IIR seeker




AH-64D/E APACHE

Max speed : 293 km/h
Combat Range : 480 km
Endurance : 4 hours
Service ceiling : 20.000 feet

AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control Radar

-- APKWS 70 mm Rockets
-- 8 km HELLFIRE air to surface Missile
-- 8 km AIM-92 Stinger air to air Missile



even MANPADS can hit Attack Helicopters

Good point. The Azeris were using an entire eco system of EW counter EW and then drones. Amid other things I might have missed.

 

[Mugwop]

No offence to anyone but i always have opted for the Chinese helicopters.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Pakistan's T-129 Coming along fine

TEI-TS1400 Prototype Delivered to Turkish Aerospace for Ground Test Campaign - Defence Turkey Magazine


TEI-TS1400 Prototype Delivered to Turkish Aerospace for Ground Test Campaign

"Under the Turboshaft Engine Development Project (TEDP), TEI (TUSAS Engine Industries Inc.) delivered the TS1400shp helicopter engine prototype to Turkish Aerospace with a ceremony attended by President Recep"

 

[xbat]

the engine is being tested on GOKBEY for now, flight test date on heli is not clear yet. it is probably end of this year or first quarter of 2022

 

[araz]

My Guess US will light Green for Pakistan T-129 order soon. but it needs better lobbying.

Unless Chiana will be supplier of Attack choppers.

So US will be loser from both side. İnfluence of supplying engines.

I think we should continue to support our Turk brothers n their endeavour to acquire/build a Helo engine and then procure the platform if it is up to the mark. The indigenous Turkish engine will come on line in 2-3 years and should mature in 5-6 years. If the Azerbaijan venture works out and we can procure the engine the T129 can come a lot earlier.
A

 

[Blacklight]

Need to stop extending the deadline. Just get the attack helicopters from China.

The urgency inst there anymore. Maybe @PanzerKiel can tell us why?

 

[T-SaGe]

Philippine Air Force to receive first T129B attack helos in Q3 2021

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan case is totally different
they will use this card to pressurize us to give any airbase

Would be a foolish decision on Pakistan's part to comply. The Americans aren't getting any bases in Pakistan.

This isn't the end of the world. I have said it before and my stance hasn't changed. Irrespective of US backstabbing, Pakistan needs to go for Chinese option. This should now go beyond acquisition. Setup production assemblies with Chinese assistance in Pakistan. Also, get some quick deliveries to get the numbers into a respectable shape. Addtionally continue with Turkish ATAK-2 option. Pakistan needs both Chinese and Turkish helicopters.

 

[Dalit]

That's true but I never said that Attack Helicopters are invincible.

I'm no expert but I would venture attack helicopters have a lot of advantages over drones.

For example attack helicopters can fly low to the ground whereas drones, like the one you described, need to maintain a higher altitude particularly to avoid air defense systems.

Furthermore, Attack helicopters can generally be operated out of anywhere whereas drones, from my understanding, are usually flown out of airbases which are prone to attack by hostile enemy forces.

Attack Helicopters have a plethora of countermeasures they can use whereas drones, at least from what I know, have limited self defense capabilities and that ties into the fact that attack helicopters are generally able to carry a lot more ammunition (ex. Apache has a payload of something like 2700 kg whereas the AKINCI UCAV can carry only 1350 kg).

I would also imagine Attack Helicopters, because of the human component, are also more resistant to cyber warfare:
Exclusive: Iran hijacked US drone, says Iranian engineer
U.S. Warship Took Down Iranian Drone Using New 'Jamming' Technology

Personally I feel like drones are more likely to replace bombers and possibly in the future strike aircraft than attack helicopters.

These helicopters are often used for low intensity conflicts such as taking on insurgencies. Additionally, the main advantage of attack helicopters is that they can fly low to the ground, making it difficult for air defense systems to target them. By contrast, drones have to fly high above the ground, making them vulnerable to enemy radars. Helicopters can fly from difficult terrain and swiftly assist the troops on the ground. Drones often need airbases to fly from. Both have pros and cons. I think Pakistan needs a mix of both.

 

[Nasr]

People really don't study at all from the past, let alone learn from it. I know that Pakistan's decision for T-129 Gunships was based on diversifying it's inventory. However Turkey was and still remains the WRONG choice. It's a NATO member state, which translates into being a subordinate to it's Western masters.

The best available option for Pakistan would be Russia, who has world class gunship helicopters like Mi-28 Havocs and Ka-52 Black Sharks. Russia plays a pivotal role in the world and unlike Turkey, the Russian Federation tells the West to get lost any time it tries to stick it's nose where it doesn't belong.

Whether it be world class Gunship Helos or top notch Air-Defense/Strike-Frigates, for Pakistan, it is Russia that has the real firepower. We ought to be looking into joint-venture programs with Russia, not Turkey. Had we signed a deal with Russia instead of turkey (back then), today Pakistan Army Aviation would've fielded 30 Ka-52 Black Sharks.

 

[PakFactor]

People really don't study at all from the past, let alone learn from it. I know that Pakistan's decision for T-129 Gunships was based on diversifying it's inventory. However Turkey was and still remains the WRONG choice. It's a NATO member state, which translates into being a subordinate to it's Western masters.

The best available option for Pakistan would be Russia, who has world class gunship helicopters like Mi-28 Havocs and Ka-52 Black Sharks. Russia plays a pivotal role in the world and unlike Turkey, the Russian Federation tells the West to get lost any time it tries to stick it's nose where it doesn't belong.

Whether it be world class Gunship Helos or top notch Air-Defense/Strike-Frigates, for Pakistan, it is Russia that has the real firepower. We ought to be looking into joint-venture programs with Russia, not Turkey. Had we signed a deal with Russia instead of turkey (back then), today Pakistan Army Aviation would've fielded 30 Ka-52 Black Sharks.

Russia would be in the same boat as US, they don't want to upset India which is one of there last few customers. The only viable option is the Chinese at this point, until Turkish platform matures (engine that is).

 

[Nasr]

Russia would be in the same boat as US, they don't want to upset India which is one of there last few customers. The only viable option is the Chinese at this point, until Turkish platform matures (engine that is).

I believe the recent official visit of the Russian Foreign Minister - Sergey Lavrov, has cleared up any doubts. Unlike america, Russia seeks genuine bilateral partnership. For the past few years, Russia has kept a balanced relationship with india, despite india going full swing into the american camp, particularly india joining quad.

Meanwhile america has a duplicitous track record, as we have all seen with AH-1Z deal, F-16s and now T-129s. It's a fools mentality that some in Pakistan still think that partnership with america can still be salvaged or that they could squeeze anything out of them.

Be it T-129s or Eurofighters, Pakistan is guaranteed to witness biased policy of the West (including) tiny britain.

Russia is not dictated to by anyone, nor is China, neither is Iran. It is these countries whom Pakistan should be seeking establish strategic relations with.

 

[RescueRanger]

The age old tactic of carrot and stick doesn't work anymore, sadly the US administration has shown time and time again that its approach to diplomacy and sale of military hardware is duplicitous.