US drone war kills up to 168 children in Pakistan: report

[VCheng]

How exactly can there be better ways to be a 'war-monger and express hatred and prejudice through killing Mooslums' than by starting two unnecessary wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, that have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children?

So if millions of Muslims were killed during the long Iran-Iraq war, who do we blame for that?

 

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So if millions of Muslims were killed during the long Iran-Iraq war, who do we blame for that?

Iran - Iraq annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

you guessed it

The west for

Supplying them weapons to prolong the WAR

 

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Double Post

 

[VCheng]

Excuse me, but is that really the West's fault?

Ever consider that stopping the Iraqi regime may have prevented millions more from dying?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So if millions of Muslims were killed during the long Iran-Iraq war, who do we blame for that?

Blame those who started and supported those wars, and avoided exploring potentially peaceful resolutions to the issues at hand - as in the case of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

 

[VCheng]

Blame those who started and supported those wars, and avoided exploring potentially peaceful resolutions to the issues at hand - as in the case of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars.

Good points, but most of that blame falls not on the US.

 

[Chogy]

This thread is devolving and nothing will be said that has not been said here 1,000 times. Are we really trying to re-hash the root causes of Afghanistan again?

If Pakistan was attacked in the same manner as the USA was on 9-11, what would Pakistani citizens want? Would they want to "sit down and talk about it?" No, they'd demand blood, retribution. No self-respecting nation is just going to take a vile attack like that and not respond.

As for Iraq-Iran, they hated each other's guts, bombed, shelled, shot each other, used poison gas. They chose to do this. They were not forced to do it. Are people suggesting that the mere availability of weapons will automatically mean they will be used?

"Oh look, we just received a shipment of mortar bombs and ammunition. I guess we'd better use it."

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

but most of that blame falls not on the US.

The US ignored the option of a peaceful resolution to the issue of holding the alleged 9/11 perpetrators accountable through negotiating their trials in a mutual acceptable third country, and instead chose to initiate war, invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.

The US chose to initiate war, invasion and occupation in Iraq on the basis of lies and in the face of opposition from large segments of the global community.

The results of both avoidable actions are hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children massacred, and trillions in losses for the US and invaded and neighboring countries.

How does most of the blame 'not fall on the US'?

You have no problems heaping blame on Pakistan PA/ISI over far less.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If Pakistan was attacked in the same manner as the USA was on 9-11, what would Pakistani citizens want? Would they want to "sit down and talk about it?" No, they'd demand blood, retribution. No self-respecting nation is just going to take a vile attack like that and not respond.

No self-respecting nation would go out and cause the massacre of hundreds of thousands of innocents and justify those deaths through sick and twisted logic, as seen on this thread, when there were non-violent options available for bringing the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks to justice.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

what the hell is this ? Killing innocent children what US is doing ? aren't we fighting a war against killing of innocent people ? This is downright terrorism of US.

 

[VCheng]

The US ignored the option of a peaceful resolution to the issue of holding the alleged 9/11 perpetrators accountable through negotiating their trials in a mutual acceptable third country, and instead chose to initiate war, invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.

Would handing over a few people dismantled the rest of Al-Qaeda? How about the hundreds of trainees in training camps, ready to implement further terrorist attacks? Would the use of Afghanistan as a government-less country awash in weapons, funded by the proceeds from the drug trade, and fired by extremist ideologies, stopped on its own?

The US chose to initiate war, invasion and occupation in Iraq on the basis of lies and in the face of opposition from large segments of the global community.

Global policy is not a popularity contest. The US presence in Iraq has probably prevented millions of more muslim deaths.

The results of both avoidable actions are hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children massacred, and trillions in losses for the US and invaded and neighboring countries.

Yes, the civil chaos and horrible misdeeds like Abu Ghraib are there, but the reasons for all those must also be debated.

How does most of the blame 'not fall on the US'?

Because the majority of the blame lies in decades of dictatorships, society wide malevolence, and state sponsored belligerence locally, to which the US was forced to respond to after 9/11.

You have no problems heaping blame on Pakistan PA/ISI over far less.

I have no problems speaking my mind, no matter what the topic, Sir. You, of all people, should have some idea by now!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi Arabian nationals.

none of them were Afghans; none were Pakistanis.

 

[VCheng]

15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi Arabian nationals.

none of them were Afghans; none were Pakistanis.

AZ: Given the roles of Saudis, and Pakistanis like KSM, are you suggesting that the appropriate targets for US invasion should have rightly been Saudi Arabia and Pakistan?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

KSM is/was not Pakistani. He was Kuwaiti/Palestinian.


the war on Afghanistan was a knee-jerk reaction. It would be very naiive and stupid to think that 9/11 (and whoever waged it) was making a war statement. I knew on that day there would be war. Innocents died, many of them.

Doesnt mean that innocents on this part of the world have to suffer because of something they had nothin to do with.


but then you have people like Truthseeker who sit comfortably behind a screen....very few times i have wished ill on others. But in his case, i'd love to see something happen to one of his own family members. Then he would understand what its like to lose someone close in such a senseless way.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Would handing over a few people dismantled the rest of Al-Qaeda? How about the hundreds of trainees in training camps, ready to implement further terrorist attacks? Would the use of Afghanistan as a government-less country awash in weapons, funded by the proceeds from the drug trade, and fired by extremist ideologies, stopped on its own?

How has any thing in terms of Afghanistan not being 'awash in weapons, drugs and terrorism' changed since the US war and invasion?

It has cost hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars, and terrorism and AQ have in fact gained further ground in Pakistan, and the war has in fact acted as a catalyst for alliances between the Taliban, AQ and various other extremist groups.

The argument in favor of engaging with the Taliban after 9/11 was not simply about having OBL and Zawahiri put up for trial in a third country, but about using the anger and international support in favor of broader changes by the Taliban in Afghanistan. Once the AQ leadership had been put on trial with Taliban approval, there would be little reason to allow the lower level leadership to continue to operate training camps, and such camps, if they existed, could have been the target of air strikes under a UN mandate.

I fail to see how the situation could not have been many magnitudes better than it is currently had the US not chosen to engage in war rather than engage with the Taliban to bring about a negotiated end to holding the perpetrators of 9/11 accountable.

Global policy is not a popularity contest. The US presence in Iraq has probably prevented millions of more muslim deaths.

I fail to see how. Saddam had no WMD's, and was in no position to threaten any other nation militarily.

What we do know is that two unnecessary wars launched by the US have resulted in hundreds of thousands of innocents dead in a decade, and the toll continues to climb and the nations involved continue to deal with the repercussions, economically, socially, politically ..

Yes, the civil chaos and horrible misdeeds like Abu Ghraib are there, but the reasons for all those must also be debated.

The massacres of hundreds of thousands of innocents would have been avoided had the US not chosen to engage in war, invasion and occupation in Afghanistan - that remains the only salient fact here.

Because the majority of the blame lies in decades of dictatorships, society wide malevolence, and state sponsored belligerence locally, to which the US was forved to respond to after 9/11.

The US was not forced to respond to anything, it chose to engage in war, invasion and occupation despite other options being available, and the 'majority of the blame' in those 'dictatorships and society wide malevolance' also lies at the doors of the US, in that it has propped up and supported those very dictators and supported States such as Israel in continuing occupation and oppressing those it occupies for the sake of some mythological 'homeland for the chosen people'.

I have no problems speaking my mind, no matter what the topic, Sir. You, of all people, should have some idea by now!

You have no problems speaking your mind against Pakistan - I have yet to see you hold US transgressions and policy failures to the same standards as those you claim to hold Pakistan to.